At 10/23/10 07:23 AM, SlashFirestorm wrote: The concern wasn't that she'd look "tribal", but that she'd conform to the "mammy" stereotype of the boisterous black nanny/cook/servant woman.

It seems when Game Freak went with the more 'mature' line this time, they went with everything that comes with it, including subtle racism.

At 10/26/10 08:55 PM, ParadoxVoid wrote:
It seems when Game Freak went with the more 'mature' line this time, they went with everything that comes with it, including subtle racism.

Which is troubling considering Nintendo has been walking on eggshells after this was published.
Considering the gravity of the situation, I fear Black and White may be banned altogether.

At 10/25/10 09:50 PM, HibiscusKazeneko wrote:

At 10/25/10 01:11 AM, Swackman wrote: And that's not just on the looks; she's apparently a cook when she isn't Gym Leading.

That and her subtitle (found on the sign outside of the Gym) is "Natural-born Mama".

Oh bloody fucking hell............

*multiple facepalms*

At 10/26/10 11:51 PM, Aci6 wrote: How many black people even live in Japan?
I think this question needs to be asked.

Very few. The anti-immigrant sentiment is extremely rampant in Japan and blacks are some of the most singled out. The locals blame black people for the United States' crime rate and justify their actions by claiming they're preventing terrorist attacks, all while gleefully ignoring the fact that every major criminal disaster Japan has experienced in recent years has come from the inside.

I know it's off topic, but Takeshi Shud%u014D has passed away after collapsing at a train station these past few days.

Don't recognise the name? He's the man responsible for Lugia and the first series of the anime

Pokémon is pretty much the only game [series] I have a large interest for and I've bought/owned games from each generation (even the console games, excluding the newer ones on the Wii).

I can't fucking wait for Black/White to come out in the US (I played some of it on an emulator, but it'd feel much better to have a physical copy of the game). HGSS is going along fine, by the way, and I can fill up the 'Dex if I actually play it (I'm at about 430-440 right now).

At 10/29/10 09:26 AM, wreckages wrote: I know it's off topic, but Takeshi Shud%u014D has passed away after collapsing at a train station these past few days.

Don't recognise the name? He's the man responsible for Lugia and the first series of the anime

My condolences to his family.

Given he made the first anime series and Lugia, did he also make Ho-Oh? It was in the very first episode.

At 10/27/10 11:32 AM, HibiscusKazeneko wrote: The anti-immigrant sentiment is extremely rampant in Japan and blacks are some of the most singled out. The locals blame black people for the United States' crime rate and justify their actions by claiming they're preventing terrorist attacks, all while gleefully ignoring the fact that every major criminal disaster Japan has experienced in recent years has come from the inside.

*bangs head against wall several times*

Great.........the one thing I didn't know about Japanese culture......... :(

At 10/27/10 08:57 PM, Aci6 wrote: because the impression they have of black people isn't going to be the same as that of another country such as America which seems to depict some level of racism. How is Japan going to know what upsets people as being racist if they're not exposed to it? I think its fair to say they through some stuff together such as the character design and everything from their impression of black people (which is minimal) and never stopped to think that perhaps it may have been racist.
Its just so doubtful they would have actually known what they were doing, game companies for children aren't about to go straight out and try to put in racism and single-handedly try and fuck up their sales. It doesn't make sense.
The people making a big deal out of this really need to stop being so racist themselves...

I agree that it doesn't make sense; however, I call bullshit on saying that they aren't aware of these things. The U.S. is their 2nd biggest market after themselves, thus you'd think they'd know stuff like this ahead of time when planning to market one of their games over here. Right?

At 11/1/10 02:42 AM, Swackman wrote: I agree that it doesn't make sense; however, I call bullshit on saying that they aren't aware of these things. The U.S. is their 2nd biggest market after themselves, thus you'd think they'd know stuff like this ahead of time when planning to market one of their games over here. Right?

I doubt they give a shit. Like most corporations, they'd just let their American branch (in the case, NoA) deal with localisation.

Note, this has nothing to do with being Japanese, but everything to do with them being in a capitalist culture.

So anyone wanna battle 5th gen on Pokemon-online? You can still battle 4th gen, as well as 3rd.
You can find the statistics of all modes here. Note: Dream World means a metagame with all Dream World abilities released. Wifi is the metagame of the Pokemon and all their tools that are presently available... the way everyone should play right now.

At 11/1/10 04:03 AM, ParadoxVoid wrote:
I doubt they give a shit. Like most corporations, they'd just let their American branch (in the case, NoA) deal with localisation.

At this rate, "localization" may mean an outright ban.
If not, they'd either have to redraw Aloe or eliminate her altogether, which will cause problems will the gameplay. So a ban would be more justified.

Note, this has nothing to do with being Japanese, but everything to do with them being in a capitalist culture.

If they truly cared about profit, they wouldn't have pulled this stunt. Most Western nations have strong taboos about this sort of thing, so much so that we have attempted to erase the past by outlawing old cartoons that depict racist stereotypes (most notably the Censored Eleven). They knew full well that we might outlaw the games, but they released them anyway. Japan has fewer target customers than the rest of the market (i.e. North America, Europe, Australia and New Zealand) so the idea that it was intended only for the Japanese market is bullshit.

At 11/2/10 09:12 PM, HibiscusKazeneko wrote: At this rate, "localization" may mean an outright ban.
If not, they'd either have to redraw Aloe or eliminate her altogether, which will cause problems will the gameplay. So a ban would be more justified.

Do you not realise the problems that would happen if a game was banned simply because it included a black cook?

At 11/2/10 09:33 PM, Aigis wrote:

At 11/2/10 09:12 PM, HibiscusKazeneko wrote: At this rate, "localization" may mean an outright ban.
If not, they'd either have to redraw Aloe or eliminate her altogether, which will cause problems will the gameplay. So a ban would be more justified.

Do you not realise the problems that would happen if a game was banned simply because it included a black cook?

What problems? Sure fans would revolt, but the general public would rejoice. Did you not read the article I referenced earlier? The author, Carole Boston Weatherford, published this follow-up article 4 months later and eventually took her case to court claiming Jynx was part of joint plot between Nintendo and Sony to force-feed racism to American children. She lost, but the impact of the case was immense. Every company handling Japanese imports had to tread on thin ice from then on, evident in various forms including the censorship of Mr. Popo from Dragonball Z and Ella from Sonic X.
And let's not forget this infamous edit:

At 11/3/10 12:02 AM, HibiscusKazeneko wrote: What problems? Sure fans would revolt, but the general public would rejoice. Did you not read the article I referenced earlier? The author, Carole Boston Weatherford, published this follow-up article 4 months later and eventually took her case to court claiming Jynx was part of joint plot between Nintendo and Sony to force-feed racism to American children.

There's a difference between depicting a black cook, and depicting a character that looks like blackface. They also barely edited that one in later editions. Just turning the skin purple. They can't do that in this instance.

...evident in various forms including the censorship of Mr. Popo from Dragonball Z and Ella from Sonic X.

There was censorship of Mr. Popo? I've never seen him censored.

And let's not forget this infamous edit:

That's just 4kids being cautious.

But yeah, aside from the similarities between the character and the stereotypical black maid/cook from the 30s, the character itself just looks like a normal person. With green hair.

There's a certain legitimacy to complaining when the depiction of a character looks like a full on blackface caricature, but there are racist connotations to complaining when the character is just a cook. Surprisingly enough, there are black cooks in the world.

Also, the character IS a gym leader. It's not as if she's being depicted as subservient or anything.

At 11/3/10 12:17 AM, Aigis wrote:

At 11/3/10 12:02 AM, HibiscusKazeneko wrote:

...evident in various forms including the censorship of Mr. Popo from Dragonball Z and Ella from Sonic X.

There was censorship of Mr. Popo? I've never seen him censored.

His lips were digitally shrunk down in the Viz prints of the manga and in the Dragonball Z Kai broadcast on The CW 4Kids (surprise surprise) he has been (badly) recolored blue. See below.

But yeah, aside from the similarities between the character and the stereotypical black maid/cook from the 30s, the character itself just looks like a normal person. With green hair.

True, but even that may be too much for some.

Also, the character IS a gym leader. It's not as if she's being depicted as subservient or anything.

"Natural-born Mama" by definition means relegation to homemaker status, which is considered subservience among certain groups.

At 11/1/10 06:07 AM, verycoolguy wrote: So anyone wanna battle 5th gen on Pokemon-online? You can still battle 4th gen, as well as 3rd.

So, anyone wanna try it out?

At 11/3/10 04:14 PM, HibiscusKazeneko wrote: "Natural-born Mama" by definition means relegation to homemaker status, which is considered subservience among certain groups.

But she's not subservient. She's a gym leader. The word 'leader' is in her title. She has a whole bunch of apprentices. She is supposed to be one of the top trainers in the region.

It's probably true that they drew on stereotypes of her character, but her position in the game doesn't at all indicate that they intended her to be socially below or subservient to any of the other characters.

A lot of the gym leaders are caricatures. Lt. Surge is a stereotypical 'American'. Giovanni is a stereotypical Italian gangster (and as far as I know, there aren't any other Italians in the games. Why not complain about their racism towards Italians?) Yakon is a stereotypical Cowboy. The fact is, the people that make these characters just suck at characterisation so they draw on stereotypes rather than developing the characters themselves.

Jynx I can understand because not only did she look like a blackface character, she also looked like a goober. With this character I can't see any actual racist intent, even if it is drawing on an out-of-date racial caricature. To take issue with this character is to keep old racism alive, even when that stereotype should have long since turned to dust.

I think that recoloring scorched my retinas..... o_O

@Aigis: I don't have any issues with the character; I'm just painfully aware of morons like that aforementioned black woman that WILL have them - and, sadly, there's still a lot of those people. Like Kaze said, it could end up in a worst-case scenario where we won't even get Gen 5 just because of those morons.

It's unfortunate.......

............I just realized I contradicted myself between my two above posts.........

On one hand, I don't have problems with the character..........and yet, I'm annoyed at the design........which means I DO have problems.......which annoys me for having them.......ARGH.

I just don't want Gen 5 getting banned here because Japanese marketing execs ignore how other countries handle certain things.

Honestly, I think you're all having kittens over nothing. If Resident Evil 5 gets in fine, where you're blowing the heads off of Black people, one small Gym Leader, which as Aigis said, is a position of power and esteem in the Pokemon universe, isn't going to do much.

You're always going to get those minority nutjobs, but you have to have faith that common sense will prevail. At least your censorship laws aren't nearly as bad as the ones I have to deal with.

At 11/4/10 01:29 AM, ParadoxVoid wrote: Honestly, I think you're all having kittens over nothing. If Resident Evil 5 gets in fine, where you're blowing the heads off of Black people, one small Gym Leader, which as Aigis said, is a position of power and esteem in the Pokemon universe, isn't going to do much.

There's a big difference: the Resident Evil series has not historically been marketed toward as young an audience as the Pokémon series has, so there's a bit more wiggle room regarding violence and offensive content.

You're always going to get those minority nutjobs, but you have to have faith that common sense will prevail.

In this case, "common sense" may be defined as "erring on the side of caution." The last thing Nintendo needs is a further blow to their image after what's been going on over the past couple of decades.

At least your censorship laws aren't nearly as bad as the ones I have to deal with.

They may not look as bad right now, but just you wait until someone tries to trip them by importing something perceivably obscene (such as the Pico series). There are provisions in the laws we have right now that could create an environment akin to Australia's in the case of a moral panic. Remember the Christopher Handley case? It's those laws (which are actually provisions of the PATRIOT Act) that we have to worry about. I predict that in 10 years, we'll all be living in a full-blown police state.

At 11/3/10 07:47 PM, Aigis wrote:
A lot of the gym leaders are caricatures. Lt. Surge is a stereotypical 'American'.

I can't dispute this one, since I've played the Japanese version of HeartGold and read the dialogue. There is still a negative stereotype in Japan of Americans being barbarians bent on destroying everything in their path using military power. In the US version, this was redirected slightly to make him look like a Midwestern roughneck not unlike the Soldier from Team Fortress 2.
It should also be noted that Fantina from Diamond, Pearl and Platinum was an American stereotype in the Japanese version. (Her original name was Melissa.) She did not depict the same notion of violence as Mathis/Lt. Surge, yet she still had the same broken Japanese. In the English version, she is a semi-stereotypical French character. (Her name even comes from a character in the novel Les Misérables.)

Giovanni is a stereotypical Italian gangster (and as far as I know, there aren't any other Italians in the games. Why not complain about their racism towards Italians?)

He wasn't Italian in the Japanese version. (His original name is Sakaki.) He was just a mysterious yet diabolical entity like a real-life yakuza boss. The Italian part was probably just tacked on so Americans would be familiarized with the level of evil he represented, while at the same time making references to pop culture icons most people would recognize. I seem to recall there being a couple of Scarface and Godfather references being thrown into his dialogue; please correct me if I'm wrong.

Yakon is a stereotypical Cowboy.

What most of the world (and even most of America) perceives as a cowboy is largely an image invented by Hollywood. It has rarely if ever been used as a negative stereotype against anyone. In fact, some people see it as a symbol of pride. I'm from Texas and here you see people walking around dressed like John Wayne and most of us think nothing of it.

The fact is, the people that make these characters just suck at characterisation so they draw on stereotypes rather than developing the characters themselves.

Again, I can't disagree with you on this. In fact, they're so obviously bad at it that they sometimes get their stereotypes mixed up, as they did with Juan. In the English version, he sometimes utters French phrases, though his name suggests he should be speaking Spanish instead.

Jynx I can understand because not only did she look like a blackface character, she also looked like a goober.

A goober? Sorry, but I don't get this one. I tried Wikipedia and Urban Dictionary, but they were no help. The only Goober I know of is from The Andy Griffith Show, but that's obviously not relevant.

With this character I can't see any actual racist intent, even if it is drawing on an out-of-date racial caricature. To take issue with this character is to keep old racism alive, even when that stereotype should have long since turned to dust.

Sad, but true. The roots of racism run deep.

At 11/4/10 04:05 PM, HibiscusKazeneko wrote: He wasn't Italian in the Japanese version. (His original name is Sakaki.) He was just a mysterious yet diabolical entity like a real-life yakuza boss.

It doesn't really matter if it was originally a Yakuza stereotype. The fact is that that is how it was localised, and that is what we were discussing.

A goober? Sorry, but I don't get this one. I tried Wikipedia and Urban Dictionary, but they were no help. The only Goober I know of is from The Andy Griffith Show, but that's obviously not relevant.

A fool.

oh btw i dressed up as ash for halloween

thought yo gaiz should know

Long shot, but may as well ask here

Running Platinum (US) on an emulator, when I try and input AR codes such as "Move Speed x2" and "Run at bike Speed" nothing happens ~ the game doesn't freeze but it just continues as if nothing changed.

This happens in both Desmume and no$gba, any advice?

At 11/7/10 07:07 AM, BananaBreadMuffin wrote: oh btw i dressed up as ash for halloween

thought yo gaiz should know

DORK!

j/k

At 11/8/10 05:59 AM, Aci6 wrote:

At 11/7/10 07:07 AM, BananaBreadMuffin wrote: oh btw i dressed up as ash for halloween

Can I ask why?

i'm a computer scientist and i was going to a computer scientist's house party so i knew everyone would appreciate

my pokemon dueling buddy was there and he hadn't been around for a while so i thought i'd make an effort for him

it was a piece of piss, cheap, fun, etc.

I just threw a blue shirt on over a white shirt and rolled the sleves up and tucked the collar under the white ones, bought a red + white hat for £3 on amazon and painted the marker, got a black tshirt, jeans, a green belt (not quite red but it'll do), some fingerless biking gloves, and made a pokeball from a red stress ball half painted white, with a black line drawn round it.

i'm glad i went as ash. it rocked. everyone thought my costume was badass

Can we see pictures of the costume?

if i can find some sure, i know some people took pics but no idea where they've got to... i was pretty trashed that night

At 11/8/10 03:14 PM, BananaBreadMuffin wrote: if i can find some sure, i know some people took pics but no idea where they've got to... i was pretty trashed that night

Sounds like a good party.

I'm gonna take back what I said about 5th generation battling. It's pretty damn fun. I guess I said it was horrible earlier because I was just so damn frustrated getting beaten by things I had no idea what it can do. It'll take time getting used to its metagames, but it can be worth it.

However, there are some stuff that are just horrible. Ditto's new ability, Eccentric, allows everyone to be lazy and unoriginal and just slap a Choice Scarf on it as insurance against.... freaking everything. Only things it can't revenge are Ground-weak Pokemon holding Balloon that can only be taken out by a Ground move, slow Pokemon during Trick Room, and Arceus.
Mischievous Heart is still a dick ability. Priority Encore is evil, although I'm lucky since I have not been running into any Erufuuns or Volbeats.

Has anyone else been playing on Pokemon-online?