At 1/11/12 03:41 PM, greensucksbluerules wrote: So how many pages did we lose due to the batman64 account being deleted?

There was roughly 50 down as a result.

At 1/11/12 09:42 PM, Tobi wrote: Any other essential AC albums?

I only have Welcome to My Nightmare and Trash but both get the approval from myself. I am willing to receive recommendations from others, particularly Coop on other good stuff from him.

At 1/11/12 10:47 PM, AniMetal wrote:

At 1/10/12 01:01 PM, Bahamut wrote: So because the sound was different to what they would be known for later on, it sucks?

No it sucks because it sucks.

You're going to need a much better reason than that. That's even less explanation than from Allmusic.

Why those albums get their dicks sucked SO MUCH is beyond me. They're absolute borefests. And Alder is definitely a superior vocalist to Arch, despite the trendy opinion.

Because The Spectre Within and Awaken the Guardian arevery passionate albums. What does Ray have? Oh yeah, BOREFESTS likes Parallels, Inside Out and Disconnected. I have no motivation to listen to anything else from him after hearing all that crap and parts of A Pleasant Shade of Gray. His saving grace is No Exit so he's lucky he was with the band to record that record. I'll say this very clearly:

FUCK RAY ALDER!

Because.
Ray Alder.
Had.
No.
Passion.
Whatsoever.
Right?

Yes, I did just link a song from each Ray Alder album.

No Exit? Progressive thrash metal masterpiece.

Perfect Symmetry? Masterpiece as a whole.

Parallels? Not amazing, but it's definitely a good album - there's a reason it has almost a million sales and is their most famous and crittically aclaimed album. Anyone who likes 80's Queensryche and early 90's Dream Theater who claims to hate this album, has obviously never listened to it.

Insideout is pretty bad. It's just Parallels worship. But it's still not bad. And Monument is an AMAZING song.

A Pleasant Shade Of Gray is just an amazing song, err, album. Unless you have sit down and listened to it in entirety, you have NO RIGHT to criticize this album. It was meant to be one track, but the record company made them split it into tracks - and because of that each part feels more like individual songs. But it is one piece. And it is amazing. The atmosphere, emotion, vocals and instrumentation are all executed flawlessly - it might be the best album of 1997. Also, Kevin Moore had a lot to do with this album - which also only enhances it's amazingness.

Disconnected has it's ups and downs. The two LONG songs on that album are both amazing. Everything else on that album is shit. But listen to the two longest songs on it, they're pretty much the centerpiece of that album and why it's still worth checking out. Kevin Moore was also on this album, but he didn't have anything to do with the songwriting - which might explain why it's not as awesome as APSOG where he had a lot to do with it.

And FWX? While it has some annoying songs(maybe two or three), as a whole, it is nothing but greatness.

The first three Fates Warning albums are just forgettable, uninspired Iron Maiden worship. Even Tim Matheos himself says this ALL. THE. TIME. There's so many better traditional metal bands out there that these albums are horribly unnecessary.

As a whole, these are the Fates Warning albums worth owning: No Exit, Perfect Symmetry, Parallels, APSOG, FWX. All great albums.

At 1/12/12 02:13 PM, AniMetal wrote: Insideout is pretty bad. It's just Parallels worship. But it's still not bad. And Monument is an AMAZING song.

But still not THAT bad is what I meant to say.

I feel it's worth mentioning that, yes, I do think Fates Warning sold out. Every few albums, they did.

After their third album, they sold out their roots and made a thrash metal album(which, in 1988, is pretty much selling out due to how successful thrash metal was then)

Then they sold out again and made Perfect Symmetry, which was basically "Hey, Queensryche are great, but we can do it better than them."

Then they sold out again with Parallels and Inside Out - both of which were prog. rock like PS, but much more mainstream and commercial sounding.

APSOG wasn't really selling out, seeing as how it's a 55 minute long song that mostly everyone hates.

Disconnected sold out again, jumping on the industrial and groove bandwagon.

FWX wasn't really a sell out.

So yes, Fates Warning has sold out various times in their career, but it doesn't make the music they wrote bad at all. And if you think Ray Alder has no passion, then obviously you know nothing about Fates Warning. There's good reason why they refuse to play John Ark era stuff and why Perfect Symmetry, Parallels and APSOG are such good albums. if you can't hear the emotion(not just in ray's voice, but also in the instruments and lyrics) but can hear emotion in generic traditional metal galloping that even they admit was Iron Maiden worship, then you have problems.

How about some Iraqi Anti-Islamic black metal with a female singer?
Islamic Lies

At 1/12/12 02:13 PM, AniMetal wrote: No Exit? Progressive thrash metal masterpiece.

The one album I can actually stand. The Ivory Gate of Dreams may be a little too abrupt with some of its sections but it's still a good song.

Perfect Symmetry? Masterpiece as a whole.

We'll see.

Parallels? Not amazing, but it's definitely a good album - there's a reason it has almost a million sales and is their most famous and crittically aclaimed album. Anyone who likes 80's Queensryche and early 90's Dream Theater who claims to hate this album, has obviously never listened to it.

I've listened to both 80s Queensrÿche and 90s Dream Theater and I think Parallels is garbage. There are very little metal albums that are on this level of blandness. I wouldn't mind waste some of my Sunday to review this.

Insideout is pretty bad. It's just Parallels worship. But it's still not bad. And Monument is an AMAZING song.

No good songs on Inside Out.

Disconnected has it's ups and downs. The two LONG songs on that album are both amazing.

They're probably the biggest offenders on the whole record. Such drawn out bullshit that doesn't have a single note worth remembering. Every song on The Spectre Within and Awaken the Guardian are infinite times more memorable.

There's so many better traditional metal bands out there that these albums are horribly unnecessary.

The funny thing is I could name traditional metal bands that aren't as good as The Spectre Within and Awaken the Guardian so they actually help.

At 1/12/12 02:22 PM, AniMetal wrote: There's good reason why they refuse to play John Ark era stuff

At least spell John Arch right.

and why Perfect Symmetry, Parallels and APSOG are such good albums. if you can't hear the emotion(not just in ray's voice, but also in the instruments and lyrics) but can hear emotion in generic traditional metal galloping that even they admit was Iron Maiden worship, then you have problems.

I could say the same thing about you for all your bullshit spouting here but I've been really nice.

At 1/12/12 02:54 PM, Anti-pie wrote: How about some Iraqi Anti-Islamic black metal with a female singer?

Wow that´s sound brutal, i´ll check them

At 1/12/12 03:05 PM, Bahamut wrote: I've listened to both 80s Queensrÿche and 90s Dream Theater and I think Parallels is garbage. There are very little metal albums that are on this level of blandness. I wouldn't mind waste some of my Sunday to review this.

Maybe your flaw is the fact it's NOT a metal album...?

No good songs on Inside Out.

Monument is a pretty great song, I don't know what you're on about. (Again, this is pretty much the only FW album with Alder I dislike)

They're probably the biggest offenders on the whole record. Such drawn out bullshit that doesn't have a single note worth remembering. Every song on The Spectre Within and Awaken the Guardian are infinite times more memorable.

...wut? Do you not like prog? Still Remains and Something From Nothing are both amazing songs.

I could say the same thing about you for all your bullshit spouting here but I've been really nice.

Probably your biggest problem is you haven't listened to A Pleasant Shade Of Gray in entirety or Perfect Symmetry, when those two albums along with No Exit are clearly their best albums. And FWX is great too, aside from two or three songs.(Out of ten)

I do agree about Ivory Gate Of Dreams having some abrupt parts, but that's more mixing and stuff other than the actual music - they can't be blamed for that.

At 1/12/12 05:45 PM, AniMetal wrote: Probably your biggest problem is you haven't listened to A Pleasant Shade Of Gray in entirety or Perfect Symmetry, when those two albums along with No Exit are clearly their best albums. And FWX is great too, aside from two or three songs.(Out of ten)

I've put them on the playlist so I will at least see if these are anything worth hearing. After three strikes with Ray Alder, keep in mind my expectations will be low.

I do agree about Ivory Gate Of Dreams having some abrupt parts, but that's more mixing and stuff other than the actual music - they can't be blamed for that.

Even if the mixing wasn't all that good for it, I will actually forgive it for being a monster full of riffs. Now that's a song I like!

At 1/12/12 08:42 PM, greensucksbluerules wrote: Just wondering, is this considered to be more acceptable than NSBM?

In most cases, yes. NS is directed at both uncontrollable factors and controllable factors, while this is directed at a lifestyle choice.

I didn't like it much, too lo-fi (not in a good way), boring instrumental, and atrocious vocals. Pretty ballsy to insult Islam and play metal in an Islamic Theocracy, though. I do find it kind of hypocritical she is playing in scales pretty much created and popularized through Islamic sacred music.

Yo Tobi, and anyone else who might be interested, I posted a list of "groove metal" bands on the previous page with links and everything.

I don't know if you saw it, but yeah. So if you still care, definitely be sure to check it out. :)

Sorry for the redundancy of this post, Bahamut, I just know that a lot of people tend to not view the page before last.

Forgot to thank you, was too busy trying to verify if that girl was using Arabic scales or not. Sorry about that. I'll be checking them out now.

Thanks to Dalnaki as well.

At 1/11/12 10:47 PM, AniMetal wrote: I second both Exhorder and Prong.

I like some Exhorder, but I don't exactly get Prong. Not bad, but meh.

Machine Head's first few albums were great, and their new album is AMAZING. Their middle era stuff is pretty shit though, but I haven't listened to it extensively so I don't know.

I know them for individual songs rather than albums. Listened to two songs from UtL, not bad.

Byzantine

Seeing as you haven't listened to them, I'm gonna recommend them to you. Really good band, has some sludge and Prog elements as well. They a pretty cool cover of Eyehategod's "Shoplift" that you also should check out.

Sepultura

I'm one of the few people who loves their groove material as much as their DM stuff. Haven't listened to Roots beyond Ratamahatta, which I liked. I should also check out the Derrick Green material, it's not fair how I treat him, even if they did do a U2 cover. I mean, Tribus was good. I've already expressed my love for CC earlier, but thanks for the rec.

Lazarus A.D.

Based off that song, not bad.

Corrosion of Conformity

I'll have to check out more later. I don't exactly know what to think. Certainly not groove.

Also, I feel it's worth mentioning that almost all sludge (whether it be traditional sludge, stoner sludge or neosludge) has groove elements in it. Not anywhere nearly as much as the trademark groove metal bands, but still.

Due to Phil Anselmo's role and influence, that's pretty understandable.

Saw Fleshgod Apocalypse, Skeletonwitch and THe bLack Dahlia Murder, FA and Skeletonwitch were totally fucking rad but all the scene kid douchebags came out for TBDM, so I left a bit early to go to a club with some friends and some MDMA.

As a side note I now understand how people in clubs can be so fucking pumped.

At 1/12/12 10:30 PM, Tobi wrote: I like some Exhorder, but I don't exactly get Prong. Not bad, but meh.

it just means you obviously need to listen to more Prong. ;)

Seeing as you haven't listened to them, I'm gonna recommend them to you. Really good band, has some sludge and Prog elements as well. They a pretty cool cover of Eyehategod's "Shoplift" that you also should check out.

Was planning on it. :)

Sepultura

I'm one of the few people who loves their groove material as much as their DM stuff. Haven't listened to Roots beyond Ratamahatta, which I liked. I should also check out the Derrick Green material, it's not fair how I treat him, even if they did do a U2 cover. I mean, Tribus was good. I've already expressed my love for CC earlier, but thanks for the rec.

I don't consider ANY Sepultura groove metal, to be honest.

Their 80's stuff is oldschool death metal bordering on thrash metal.

Arise and Chaos A.D. are just oldschool death metal, with less thrashie elements and with really groove-esque drumming.

Roots is just experimental. One big avant-garde album, with a few death metal songs spread out on it - mainly just Roots Bloody Roots, their biggest hit. Tons of guest appearences. The ones I remember being Les Claypool, Mike Patton and one or two of the guys from Korn.

The only Derrick albums i've listened to have been Nation, which was just very Korn-esque and simplistic. Just with more extreme vocals, and with guitar solos. The other was A-lex, which was just a bunch of super short and wicked shittie technical death metal with awful lyrics about a Clockwork Orange. Eh...

I'll have to check out more later. I don't exactly know what to think. Certainly not groove.

Like most grunge bands, they have a lot of hit-or-miss songs. Check out a full album by them, not just a few songs. They're really good. Started off as more thrash metal / hardcore punk, but their most famous stuff from the 90's was more grunge. I think the only reason a lot of people and wikipedia call them groove metal is that they toured with bands like Pantera, Prong and Fear Factory a lot.

Due to Phil Anselmo's role and influence, that's pretty understandable.

m'hmm, definitely.

Rush - Tomy Sawyer

At 1/12/12 02:54 PM, Anti-pie wrote: How about some Iraqi Anti-Islamic black metal with a female singer?
Islamic Lies

Fuck the police!

Happy Friday the 13th
,,\/ :) \,,/

At 1/13/12 01:15 AM, AniMetal wrote:

I don't consider ANY Sepultura groove metal, to be honest.

Their 80's stuff is oldschool death metal bordering on thrash metal.

Sepultura is like death/thrash....right?

I wrote a review for Dark Quarterer's self-titled album. I have a rant to post on Monday which isn't highly related to metal but it's one I want to get off my chest. Here's hoping I have a productive day for reviewing on Sunday.

At 1/12/12 09:18 PM, AniMetal wrote:

Sorry for the redundancy of this post, Bahamut, I just know that a lot of people tend to not view the page before last.

I'll let you off but I do think everyone should check ALL the latest posts they've yet to read in this thread since a lot of good discussion can spring from this thread.

At 1/13/12 11:58 AM, rockereaper wrote: Sepultura is like death/thrash....right?

Their early stuff is, while Chaos A.D. onward is often considered groove metal. If you haven't listened to them yet, you should. I won't suggest any one album, because to me, it's all good (I've only listened up to Against. I'm gonna listen to the Derrick Green albums today). I'd avise getting into their death/thrash stuff, just to see how much they evolved as a band.

Also, in adress to Ani, though Sepultura are very much unlike most Groove, they do use grooves enough to be considered it. Minimal chord changes with emphasis on rhythm, Chuggy palm muted guitars, etc.

You know there was this deathcore band opening yesterday and I realised that deathcore is much more of a live genre. It's mostly simplistic and just has a good pulse to headbang to. I just can't appreciate the technicaly of bands like Fleshgod Apocalypse when the sound isn't very good and I can't really see them, but some average deathcore band doing a chugy breakdown is rad and I don't have to care too much.

At 1/13/12 12:24 PM, Bahamut wrote: I wrote a review for Dark Quarterer's self-titled album.

Great review. If you're looking for more great trad heavy metal, you should check out Katedra. Lithuanian heavy metal from the late 80s.

At 1/13/12 03:24 PM, SomaGuye wrote: some average deathcore band doing a chugy breakdown is rad and I don't have to care too much.

I don't see how anybody could headbang to those lame bree bree breakdowns. They make me yawn. If you listen to too much deathcore you forget that breakdowns can actually be good and not boring.

Parallels is decent.

Just wondering, does anyone know some good metal remixes not done by Justin Broadrick?

Well i wanna join :3 my fave metal band is As Hell Retreats(as of right now) my fave metal song is Matriarch(the song is so addictive to me)

At 1/13/12 05:50 PM, Dalnaki wrote: I don't see how anybody could headbang to those lame bree bree breakdowns. They make me yawn. If you listen to too much deathcore you forget that breakdowns can actually be good and not boring.

There were no bree's, and it's the live atmosphere. I don't listen to much deathcore, the whole point of my post was that I wouldn't listen to it unless they're supporting a band I actually want to see, and then it's much better than listening to the CD.

At 1/13/12 08:10 PM, Tobi wrote: Just wondering, does anyone know some good metal remixes not done by Justin Broadrick?

A remix? As in... not an original or a cover? Last time I've heard the term "remix" in metal, it was on Megadeth records... Insomnia (Jeff Balding Mix), Breadline (Jack Joseph Puig Mix) and Crush 'Em (Jock Mix)... or the Paul Lani Mixes on So Far, So Good... So What!... And we all know how shitty and forgettable that was...

Justin Broadrick doesn't seem to do in that electronic/metal remixes. So what is it that makes the tracks he plays remixes and not covers? Is it that remixes include the idea of modifing sections and riffs and covers are actually just a song played by another artist or band?

At 1/13/12 05:50 PM, Dalnaki wrote:

At 1/13/12 12:24 PM, Bahamut wrote: I wrote a review for Dark Quarterer's self-titled album.

Great review. If you're looking for more great trad heavy metal, you should check out Katedra. Lithuanian heavy metal from the late 80s.

Damn, you sure know where to find rarer gems in traditional metal. Somehow the underground traditional metal bands I come across don't quite compare to what you dig up.

A remix uses audio mixing and manipulation to alter the song. For example, in Broadrick's remix of Isis'es "Celestial", he reararanges is the song by placing the end section in the beginning, placing snips of other sections over said section, and altering the instruments slightly. Another remix (and one which is much more altercating) is this. Almost every sound you hear in there is from the origibal, just rearanged and manipulated.

remix of a metal song, you say?

I am a huge metal fan but I am also sorta into stuff like Skrillex and Deadmau5, is there people like that or am I unique.