At 8/27/11 05:29 PM, HeavenDuff wrote:

At 8/27/11 04:50 PM, TheSporkLord wrote: Because you know so much about riffing right? Anyway they have definitely changed their sound. Link at bottom.

What are you trying to proove exactly? I know a lot about riffing. Fuck you. Everytime someone disagree with you, you get pissed and you start throwing your stupid Ad Hominem taunts. No, seriously... Fuck you. Grow up.

And what the fuck are you doing? " oh fuck you " " grow up " But honestly I'd like to hear your riffs.

Not at all. Unless of course vikings played severely downtuned electric guitar. You can't have a guitar riff that sounds " vikingish ".

This is exactly like your dumb argument against "folk metal". No, of course vikings didn't play electric guitars. But you can still try to emulate a feeling, an atmosphere, a kind of melody, a kind of sound, based on an ancient culture. Need I say "DUH" ?

Vikings didn't really have a sound. That's my whole point.

Not quite. I said that because you really can't judge their skill. I don't play violin, so I would never go up to a violinist and say " you have no skill ". As for your quarterback example, it would be fine if you had actually been a quarterback at some point or had some experience in major football games.
Or perhaps if you were to say " he is doing bad right now. "

That's stupid. That's just plain stupid. You don't need to be a musician to judge music.

I suppose I also don't need to be a quantum physicist to judge an actual physicist's theories?

I know a lot about music, and I can easily say that Unearth play generic riffs and that beyond the fact that they know where to place their fingers, these musicians are not anything like guys like Ron Jarzombeck, Michael Romeo or Dave Mustaine.

But you won't understand anything about until you actually play music. It's that simple. You might jnow the very basics that every other person knows, but you couldn't know more.

What you're saying is that I can't judge what makes a good musician because I don't play in a band, that I can't judge what makes a good book because I don't write books, Yeah right, I also can't judge if a girl knows how to suck a dick, because I don't suck dicks.

Damn straight.

Try to find some good arguments instead of your shitty Ad Hominem. This discussion is just going down. If you are not going to bring this anywhere, stop arguing.

My arguments are fine.

Wanton rip-offs of Soul Invictus and Fields of Nephelim. And I wouldn't ever call them " agressive black metal " That's just sacriligious. And yes, they do copy+paste off their other songs. Their only decent release was Pale Folklore. I was actually talking with someone about agalloch and he said the word that fits them perfectly. Indie. Also, Absurd.

So yeah, now making a cover of some other artist's track is a rip-off.

NOWHERE did I say that.

And taking influences from other bands, is also ripping them off.

Again, Didn't say that. You're putting words in my mouth.

Good job, now that's cleaver.

" Jeez quit insulting me, if you can't stop your childish insults then just stop arguing. "

And now, try to understand the difference between raw black metal and what I called agressive black metal. I didn't say they were playing stuff like Balrog, Mayhem or Gorgoroth. But tracks like The Painted Grey, are definitely more agressive then the stuff they wrote for Pale Folklore and Ashes Against The Grain.

Then you should have said they were different from their OWN music. When you say they make agressive black metal, one would only assume you are comparing to actual black metal bands. However, if you said " its more agressive than their other albums ", well that's understandable.

I know you never said I sucked. However, you replied to my earlier post so it would only make sense that I reply to you replying to me.

No, you are insulting me.

And you are insulting me.

And just a few pages back, you were insulting AniMetal.

No, actually I wasn't, I'm pretty sure that I would know whether or not I am insulting someone.

Can't you realise that you act like a pissed teenager whenever we don't agree with you?

Can't you realize that you do?

Plus, it's just stupid that you feel the need to talk about Agalloch and how much you think they suck whenever we get in an argument together. This is not a good way to argue. I say "I think Amon Amarth are uncreative." and your favorite argument against my points is always "Well you like Agalloch, fuck you."

No not exactly, I'm saying that you say AA are uncreative and yet bands like origin and agalloch are creative to you. Origin is just a clusterfuck of noise. I've heard that before. You're being a hypocrite.

This is irrelevant... Instead of explainning how Amon Amarth are not like what I described, you throw another Ad Hominem at me, saying I can't judge if Amon Amarth are creative or not because I like uncreative stuff like Agalloch...

Again, what don't you understand about this? I'm saying that it's hypocritical to say that AA is uncreative and other artists that are even worse are somehow creative, i.e Origin.

I wouldn't ever count nightrage for one, kalmah is good but they don't change their sound much. And I already mentioned SS.

Kalmah changes their sound for every single record. They made rawer albums like Swampsong. This album is more focused on the two guitars and how the rhythm and lead guitars work together.

In other words, every metal album ever.

Albums like They Will Return are far more melodic and the keys take a much more important place on this record then what they do on Swampsong. Now take their three last albums and compare them to their earlier work, and you can see a huge evolution between the two "eras".

I don't consider sound production to count. And even then swamplord is only slightly more melodic than their newer stuff.

At 8/27/11 05:58 PM, TheSporkLord wrote: I suppose I also don't need to be a quantum physicist to judge an actual physicist's theories?

Are you fucking dumb? No seriously... I'm really wondering. Don't you get that your example is fucking retarded? We are talking art, not PHD level science. You keep stating that I can't understand music if I don't play music. That's fucking dumb. Saying music is only for musicians is probably the most stupid and oldest retard musician argument to not use your brain and bring a real point to the table.

But you won't understand anything about until you actually play music. It's that simple. You might jnow the very basics that every other person knows, but you couldn't know more.

That's just wrong... Stop saying shit like that... I know much more about music than most people I know. I know much more than the basis and I can still say that Amon Amarth are OBJECTIVELY using very simple riffs and stuff that really isn't hard to write. I know how to arrange chords.

I can judge the quality of the writting of a book, even if I don't write books. Same goes for music. I know how it works. I just know. Arguing that my point is bad by saying "You don't know what you are talking about" is not a proof of that statement. Proove your statement and most important... stop claiming that you know anything about me.

Damn straight.

Clever.

My arguments are fine.

No, they suck. Like... badly...

And you are insulting me.

You brought me down that path. If you insult me, I'll insult you. Simple.

No not exactly, I'm saying that you say AA are uncreative and yet bands like origin and agalloch are creative to you. Origin is just a clusterfuck of noise. I've heard that before. You're being a hypocrite.

That's just plain false. Origin have some of the best song-writting in Death Metal. They have a very saturated sound, yes. But their song-writting is outstanding. They reinvente Death Metal with a brand new sound, and evolve with every album they write. Echoes Of Decimation is nothing like Antithesis, and their most recent album is also quite different. The riffs are very efficients. There are some great build-ups sometimes, or sometimes there aren't any, just to throw the music like a punch at you. The riffs are badass and heavy when needed, or they can be fast and energic for another feeling. No dude, you really fail. Amon Amarth are a mediocre Melodic Death Metal band that is condemned to be only remembered as "that viking band". Sadly, they really aren't any more than this.

I'm not hypocritical, I'm just showing a lot more of capability to understand different musical genres, while you get stuck with the lousy high school melodeath and core bands you like.

Again, what don't you understand about this? I'm saying that it's hypocritical to say that AA is uncreative and other artists that are even worse are somehow creative, i.e Origin.

There is nothing like Origin. Seriously. They are outstanding. You can't have so many sounds played by so many instruments at the same time and still be so perfectly timed with the tempo and still have obvious differences between the various riffs (more than the usual 3 or 4 used by shitty bands like Amon Amarth) in a song. I can easily recognize a track by Origin while listenning to the drummer rehearsing alone. Most noobs who can't appreciate Origin like to say the drummer is just playing boring and generic blast-beats all the time. But I can tell you, that if I can recognize a track just by the drumming, it's obviously cause the drummer isn't just doing blast-beats. These guys are very melodic, but not in the shitty melodeath/metalcore way you seem to enjoy so fucking much.

You are still not making any point.

In other words, every metal album ever.

Oh yes... and of course, when you focus on the guitars, then you are not original, because others do the same. Clever.

I don't consider sound production to count. And even then swamplord is only slightly more melodic than their newer stuff.

Lol. I like how you try to "calculate" how melodic a band is. Their newer stuff is completely different. The rhythm guitars are the most obvious differences between both eras.

At 8/27/11 05:58 PM, TheSporkLord wrote: I suppose I also don't need to be a quantum physicist to judge an actual physicist's theories?

That's ridiculous, that's like claiming you don't need to be a professional chef to know what good cooking is.

At 8/27/11 12:06 PM, TheSporkLord wrote: Again, like every other melodeath band. These bands don't ever " reinvent " themselves, they just copy off another band. Same song structures, same vocals, same everything.

Speaking of melodeath, I never looked into Dark Tranquility or At the Gates. I've given plenty of lesser known artists a chance but not them. Maybe I should change that...

At 8/28/11 08:36 AM, Bahamut wrote: Speaking of melodeath, I never looked into Dark Tranquility or At the Gates. I've given plenty of lesser known artists a chance but not them. Maybe I should change that...

Dark Tranquillity is an awesome band. I highly recommand the album Damage Done :) Character is also another good album by them.

At 8/25/11 02:20 PM, Sense-Offender wrote:
I agree that Nattens Madrigal is awesome, and so is Bergtatt, but I think their best stuff is from their non-metal albums like Blood Inside, Perdition City, Lykanthropen Themes, Svidd Neger, and a Quick Fix of Melancholy. I listen to some of their stuff when I go to sleep, too, and it affects my dreams, sometimes. Theme 7 is a bit emotionally overwhelming for me sometimes, but I love it. I'm pretty emotionally receptive to music. Music can fuck up my mood. Theme 7 is one of a few songs that make my breathing heavier and give me this feeling in my chest. like a sinking feeling, I guess. My Prayer Beyond Ginnungagap by Blut Aus Nord is another example of a song that does that to me, especially ever since I had a dream about my grandfather's funeral, and I was just staring at him in his casket while the song was somehow playing out of nowhere. The room looked just like the actual room where his casket was before he was buried. I woke up with a tear in my eye and the song was still on.

I've never heard their non-metal stuff but I will surely do. Emotional music is the best thing mankind created.

And sorry for your loss.

The bands that have the strongest emotional effect on me are Alcest and Insomnium. When I saw Insomnium last year I was almost crying.

At 8/28/11 02:45 AM, HeavenDuff wrote:

At 8/27/11 05:58 PM, TheSporkLord wrote: I suppose I also don't need to be a quantum physicist to judge an actual physicist's theories?

Are you fucking dumb? No seriously... I'm really wondering. Don't you get that your example is fucking retarded?

Take your personal attacks somewhere else you manchild. See how that works? THat's how you sound, like an immature brat.

We are talking art, not PHD level science. You keep stating that I can't understand music if I don't play music. That's fucking dumb. Saying music is only for musicians is probably the most stupid and oldest retard musician argument to not use your brain and bring a real point to the table.

Tell me what you understand of music. Because I ALWAYS see you talking about how you know so much and yet you never actually go into detail. Tell me the relevancy between notes or the progression a musician uses.

But you won't understand anything about until you actually play music. It's that simple. You might jnow the very basics that every other person knows, but you couldn't know more.

That's just wrong... Stop saying shit like that... I know much more about music than most people I know. I know much more than the basis and I can still say that Amon Amarth are OBJECTIVELY using very simple riffs and stuff that really isn't hard to write.

Where's your music then? If its so easy, lets see you do it. You're just making big ass claims about
nothing. Idiots like you ALWAYS say " oh I could do that no prob its sooo simple " and yet when you actually go to play an instrument, suddenly you can't do it. How do you even know how complex their riffs are? Can you tell what each and every notes in their riffs are?

I know how to arrange chords.

Until you actually pick up a guitar, I'm sure you do. Definitely.

I can judge the quality of the writting of a book, even if I don't write books. Same goes for music. I know how it works. I just know. Arguing that my point is bad by saying "You don't know what you are talking about" is not a proof of that statement. Proove your statement and most important... stop claiming that you know anything about me.

You can enjoy a book, but that doesn't mean its actually good. And agaon I say, what do you know of music? You always say you do and yet I see nothing.

Damn straight.

Clever.

Indeed.

And you are insulting me.

You brought me down that path. If you insult me, I'll insult you. Simple.

No, you fucking insult everybody. Half the time, YOU start it. I have no problem talking with anyone else.

No not exactly, I'm saying that you say AA are uncreative and yet bands like origin and agalloch are creative to you. Origin is just a clusterfuck of noise. I've heard that before. You're being a hypocrite.

That's just plain false. Origin have some of the best song-writting in Death Metal. They have a very saturated sound, yes. But their song-writting is outstanding.

Mind telling me how, with your infallible knowledge of music?

They reinvente Death Metal with a brand new sound, and evolve with every album they write. Echoes Of Decimation is nothing like Antithesis, and their most recent album is also quite different. The riffs are very efficients. There are some great build-ups sometimes, or sometimes there aren't any, just to throw the music like a punch at you. The riffs are badass and heavy when needed, or they can be fast and energic for another feeling. No dude, you really fail. Amon Amarth are a mediocre Melodic Death Metal band that is condemned to be only remembered as "that viking band". Sadly, they really aren't any more than this.

Oh man, there songs have build up? Sometimes not? Their riffs are efficient? That's some deep stuff there. Great points. Definitely goes into detail. They're wank and nothing more.

I'm not hypocritical, I'm just showing a lot more of capability to understand different musical genres, while you get stuck with the lousy high school melodeath and core bands you like.

Yeah because I said I liked core. I fucking hate core. Nice assumptions about me. Shows a lot.

Again, what don't you understand about this? I'm saying that it's hypocritical to say that AA is uncreative and other artists that are even worse are somehow creative, i.e Origin.

There is nothing like Origin. Seriously.

Waaank.

They are outstanding. You can't have so many sounds played by so many instruments at the same time and still be so perfectly timed with the tempo and still have obvious differences between the various riffs (more than the usual 3 or 4 used by shitty bands like Amon Amarth) in a song. I can easily recognize a track by Origin while listenning to the drummer rehearsing alone. Most noobs who can't appreciate Origin like to say the drummer is just playing boring and generic blast-beats all the time. But I can tell you, that if I can recognize a track just by the drumming, it's obviously cause the drummer isn't just doing blast-beats. These guys are very melodic, but not in the shitty melodeath/metalcore way you seem to enjoy so fucking much.

Its not hard to make everything 32nd notes. NOt at all, which is why they're boring as fuck. Any moron can run up a scale. And yet again there's the whole " i like core " argument that I never even said. I've already listed the melodeath I've been listening to recently. And what can you say of core? You listen to fucking Nightrage. They're metalcore up the ass.

You are still not making any point.

In other words, every metal album ever.

Oh yes... and of course, when you focus on the guitars, then you are not original, because others do the same. Clever.

No, what you said was the most idiotic, generic statement ever. " the point of these guitars is to work together " Hurr really? What album did the guitars not work together?

I don't consider sound production to count. And even then swamplord is only slightly more melodic than their newer stuff.

Lol. I like how you try to "calculate" how melodic a band is. Their newer stuff is completely different. The rhythm guitars are the most obvious differences between both eras.

Except that swamplord was infact more melodic. And lol at their rhythm guitars are different, that's just called writing a new song, unless of course you expected them to re usetheir rhythms. No point there.

At 8/28/11 06:36 PM, TheSporkLord wrote: Tell me what you understand of music. Because I ALWAYS see you talking about how you know so much and yet you never actually go into detail. Tell me the relevancy between notes or the progression a musician uses.

I don't see the point, son. I'm here to discuss music with other fans of the same musical genre. And I think I've already displayed my understanding of music quite a few times. Right now, you are trying to pick up a fight with me. Any example I would bring up, you'd just deny it and say I'm wrong, cause you are just trying to proove me wrong. I don't want to get into that kind of situation. It's pointless and useless.

Where's your music then? If its so easy, lets see you do it. You're just making big ass claims about
nothing. Idiots like you ALWAYS say " oh I could do that no prob its sooo simple " and yet when you actually go to play an instrument, suddenly you can't do it. How do you even know how complex their riffs are? Can you tell what each and every notes in their riffs are?

I'm not saying I can do it, why? BECAUSE I'M NOT A FUCKING GUITARIST! That doesn't mean I don't understand what is going on. Give me a program like GuitarPro and I can easily write an Amon Amarth-like kind of riff. It's fucking easy! FACT!

And that's not the point I'm bringing up. I don't want to proove you I can do it, cause like I previously stated, I don't need to do it to fully understand what they are doing. Hell, did you read what I and Dalnaki wrote? It's fucking stupid to pretend that you NEED to be a musician to understand music. It's stupid! It just is!

Until you actually pick up a guitar, I'm sure you do. Definitely.

I play bass.

You can enjoy a book, but that doesn't mean its actually good. And agaon I say, what do you know of music? You always say you do and yet I see nothing.

Dude, all I fucking discuss in here is MUSIC. Don't you read? ALL THE FUCKING TIME, I'm talking about music. About ambiences, chord progressions, how I like Benighted and the way they can break a riff to give a special feeling to their music, how Wolves In The Throne Room can create an awesome atmosphere with repetition and powerful distortion.

If you think that the only way to understand music is to know your E Scale perfectly and your arpeggios, than you are wrong. Terribly wrong. Another example needed? Is a guitarist unable to understand what a good drum line is because he isn't playing the drums? Does a saxophonist need to learn to play the bass guitar to understand the use of a good bass line? The answer is FUCKING NO!

No, you fucking insult everybody. Half the time, YOU start it. I have no problem talking with anyone else.

No, I don't insult anybody. Last time it was with smeagol and he was the one pushing me around. I'm not even insulting you right now. I'm just getting more and more frustrated when I read your lame Ad Hominem wannabe arguments. It's insulting, cause you pretend to destroy my arguments by bashing ON ME and not the arguments themselves. Do you need anymore teaching? Cause you fail to understand how to argue with someone without dropping into a stupid agressive stance. Yeah, maybe I'm starting to insult you, but that's because your behavior annoys me.

Mind telling me how, with your infallible knowledge of music?

Read the next part of the post before writting silly ass statements like these...

Oh man, there songs have build up? Sometimes not? Their riffs are efficient? That's some deep stuff there. Great points. Definitely goes into detail. They're wank and nothing more.

What do you expect me to do? To explain how they move from E to A than back to E. That's fucking stupid. Yes, I can discuss music. But the best way to actually learn something about music is to listen to it.

If I tell you how wrong you are when you say they wank... just by telling you that most of their rhythm sections do not even include any sweeping or fast riffs. Sometimes they drop in slow and heavy parts. THAT !!!! I even mentionned in my previous post, and you turned a fucking blind eye on it, cause you don't want to learn. You don't want to listen. Origin are not like Beneath The Massacre or any of these chug-chug sweep-sweep chug-chug bands. Why? Because they have riffs!!! Do I need to explain you what a fucking riff is now? Or can you listen for yourself and stop shoving your head up your ass?

Ok ok! I'll do it, but just for a little part of the track, cause I can't be bothered wasting my time with this...

Origin - Saligia

First riff - Tremolo picking riff. Really fast riff, but not much technical sweeping involved before they add up some at the end of the riff.

Even with the second riff they still play a very heavy and not so fast death metal riff, but they still throw some technical parts in the middle and at the end of the riff.

Just listenning to the track I'm really just wondering why I'm doing this... cause it's fucking obvious that these guys are not like Obscura or other noobs who just sweep through their scales to try to sound technical. There is some proper song-writting behind the technicality. If you can't hear it... Then it's not my fucking problem. I'm just fed up with this... really...

They often use typical slower and less technical riffs in their tracks to give a good structures to the song. A lame tech/death band will most of the time forget to write good rhythm guitars and focus only on the leads. That's not what Origin does. Seriously, I feel so bad I have to explain this to you...

Its not hard to make everything 32nd notes. NOt at all, which is why they're boring as fuck. Any moron can run up a scale. And yet again there's the whole " i like core " argument that I never even said. I've already listed the melodeath I've been listening to recently. And what can you say of core? You listen to fucking Nightrage. They're metalcore up the ass.

But they are not just running up scales! That's just objectively FALSE. Listen to the track I linked you up to.

No, what you said was the most idiotic, generic statement ever. " the point of these guitars is to work together " Hurr really? What album did the guitars not work together?

What I mean big boy, is that the strong elements of the album is how the rhythm and lead guitars really do a great job together. How the rhythm guitar just follows the lead for a few notes then play some chords and join back the lead guitar when he comes back down the scale.

Geez, what happened to ya' Sporky? First you had a well thought out argument, and few posts later you're saying stuff like "I suppose I also don't need to be a quantum physicist to judge an actual physicist's theories" and harping on the "you don't play an instrument" argument.

As a guitarist, I can safely say Amon Amarth are quite simplistic, and "Pursuit of Vikings" was one of the first metal songs I learned on guitar. I don't think simplicity is a bad thing either, because if I did, I wouldn't like at least 85% of metal.

At 8/28/11 07:36 PM, Tobi wrote: I don't think simplicity is a bad thing either, because if I did, I wouldn't like at least 85% of metal.

That's an odd comment.

I've always been under the impression that almost all metal is technical in some way or another.

Sure there's some pretty damn simplistic thrash and power, but most of those genres is more technical then people give them credit for. And even like slam death metal and grindcore requires intense speed and whatnot.

Talking about Origin...

I just thought about something I often use as an argument when someone complains about them wanking. If you want to see if a Tech Death band is any good you have to ask yourself if the technical parts are useful to the composition of the riffs. The question is: Do they change anything in the writting of the riff? Listenning to the track Finite, I can definitely tell you that they do. It's very fast and technical, but they put a great melody with the first riff, especially with the support of the bass.

Compare bands like Origin with bands like Braindrill, and you will realise that bands like Braindrill wank a lot, but that they never repeat any of the parts of the riffs or the lead parts enough to have a riff. When a bands plays some very technical and non-repetitive riffs, that's what I can wanking. They just go through the song without any kind of solid structure. It's just a free run of technical skills displaying. But with Origin, you have strong columns holding it together. This is to me, the difference between a good technical metal band, and a bad one. Bad ones, are bands like Mutiny Within. They use a lame chug-chug riff for the rhythm section and the lead guitar plays very fast through scales. A good technical band will include the technical riffs in the rhythm section.

I often find myself trying to catch the main notes of an Origin track (sorry if I'm not expressing myself in the correct terms here, remember that my first language is french). So yeah, I listen to an Origin riff, and try to find the main chords of the riff. Because this is how Origin write music, they use a few chords and place them together to form a riff. The riff could be just these chords, because they form a melody even before they finish writting the whole thing. So, listenning to the first riff of The Aftermath, I can tell you that there are 10 "main chords" if I can express myself that way. And then, to complete the riff, they add some sweeping, and they fill in the blanks between the chords with more notes.

You can call this wanking, because there is an actual structure. They don't just play through scales like a bluesman would do to improvise a solo. There is a real song-writting process behind Origin's work.

Origin - Consuming Misery

At 8/28/11 07:06 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: these guys are not like Obscura or other noobs who just sweep through their scales to try to sound technical.

Eh? If anything I'd label Obscura as one of the better technical death metal bands you mentioned that don't just constantly wank the guitars with no solid riffs or anything. Example..

At 8/28/11 08:02 PM, JaY11 wrote: Eh? If anything I'd label Obscura as one of the better technical death metal bands you mentioned that don't just constantly wank the guitars with no solid riffs or anything. Example..

The new obscura album has a lot of solid song structure and repetition along with melody in general. So yeah, the new obscura album pretty much rapes.

Anyway, a friend of mine is selling her general admission ticket to see The Big Four(Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer & Anthrax) in NYC at Yankees stadium next month. She's pretty pregnant, and didn't realize it months ago when tickets went on sale.

So yeah, how much money do you guys think I should spend on it? I don't want to pay TOO much on it, but I don't want to feel like i'm ripping her off either. (She told me as long as I paid her something she'd be fine with giving me the ticket)

At 8/28/11 08:32 PM, Piggler wrote: Why is it that whenever I return to this thread I find bitching?

We're all metalheads and/or elitists and/or douchebags and/or hipsters.

Can you really expect anything different?

At 8/28/11 07:06 PM, HeavenDuff wrote:

At 8/28/11 06:36 PM, TheSporkLord wrote:

I don't see the point, son. I'm here to discuss music with other fans of the same musical genre. And I think I've already displayed my understanding of music quite a few times.

Where, tell me where god dammit.

Any example I would bring up, you'd just deny it and say I'm wrong, cause you are just trying to proove me wrong. I don't want to get into that kind of situation. It's pointless and useless.

I can admit when I'm wrong. Arguing with you is just pointless because you won't accept that you're ever wrong.

I'm not saying I can do it, why? BECAUSE I'M NOT A FUCKING GUITARIST!

Okay, this will come in handy in a second.

That doesn't mean I don't understand what is going on. Give me a program like GuitarPro and I can easily write an Amon Amarth-like kind of riff. It's fucking easy! FACT!

If its easy I really don't see why you can't do it. Oh that's right, writing a riff on guitarpro doesn't mean shit. You can say its easy all you want, but it doesn't mean anything.

And that's not the point I'm bringing up. I don't want to proove you I can do it, cause like I previously stated, I don't need to do it to fully understand what they are doing. Hell, did you read what I and Dalnaki wrote? It's fucking stupid to pretend that you NEED to be a musician to understand music. It's stupid! It just is!

Not it fucking isn't. To ACTUALLY understand music, you need to be a musician or have taken extensive musical courses, although I don't see why you would do that and still not play an instrument. There's quite the difference between actually understanding what they're doing and just talking about how their structure is when you can't really explain yourself.

Until you actually pick up a guitar, I'm sure you do. Definitely.

I play bass.

I wanna hear some. And even then, its still not the same.

:, I'm talking about music. About ambiences, chord progressions, how I like Benighted and the way they can break a riff to give a special feeling to their music, how Wolves In The Throne Room can create an awesome atmosphere with repetition and powerful distortion.

Ohhh I see. You think saying " this band is atmospheric because of their distortion " counts as understanding music. No, what you said there are the most generic things one can say about music. You might as well say " this distortion makes the music sound heavy "

If you think that the only way to understand music is to know your E Scale perfectly and your arpeggios, than you are wrong. Terribly wrong. Another example needed? Is a guitarist unable to understand what a good drum line is because he isn't playing the drums? Does a saxophonist need to learn to play the bass guitar to understand the use of a good bass line? The answer is FUCKING NO!

What you said is stupid, there's a difference between using someone else's music to add to your own and actually knowing about music to create your own.

No, I don't insult anybody. Last time it was with smeagol and he was the one pushing me around. I'm not even insulting you right now.

You're fucking kidding right? Please tell me you're joking.

I'm just getting more and more frustrated when I read your lame Ad Hominem wannabe arguments.

That's exactly what you fucking do! Are you that god damn thick headed?

It's insulting, cause you pretend to destroy my arguments by bashing ON ME and not the arguments themselves.

That's exactly what you do!

Cause you fail to understand how to argue with someone without dropping into a stupid agressive stance. Yeah, maybe I'm starting to insult you, but that's because your behavior annoys me.

I can discuss things of this nature with anyone else on here. Don't find it weird that you're the only person this happens with?

Read the next part of the post before writting silly ass statements like these...

Kay.

What do you expect me to do? To explain how they move from E to A than back to E.

That would demonstrate an actual understanding of said music. But its not just saying " they played this note ". It's understanding the relevancy of said notes and how they sound together. Such as thirds or the circle of fifths.

That's fucking stupid. Yes, I can discuss music. But the best way to actually learn something about music is to listen to it.

And to actually know what they're doing. Listening alone doesn't do anything. Nothing. I obviously wasn't always a guitarist and before I played guitar I understood absolutely nothing about music. It was just guitar to me. But after learning guitar it actually started to be more than that.

If I tell you how wrong you are when you say they wank... just by telling you that most of their rhythm sections do not even include any sweeping

Sweep harmonization begs to differ.

or fast riffs.

Ha.

Sometimes they drop in slow and heavy parts.

Like deir bass sweeps!!!

THAT !!!! I even mentionned in my previous post, and you turned a fucking blind eye on it, cause you don't want to learn. You don't want to listen.

I'm more than willing to listen. I'm here listening to you aren't I? If that doesn't require patience I don't know what does.

Origin are not like Beneath The Massacre or any of these chug-chug sweep-sweep chug-chug bands.

Yes they are. They most definitely are.

Why? Because they have riffs!!!

As do the aforementioned bands.

Do I need to explain you what a fucking riff is now? Or can you listen for yourself and stop shoving your head up your ass?

Seeing as how I actually write riffs I can say I know what they are.

First riff - Tremolo picking riff. Really fast riff, but not much technical sweeping involved before they add up some at the end of the riff.

Again, 32nd notes are cool. Also, I don't consider tremolo picking " riffs ". I heard nothing innovative or original here.

Even with the second riff they still play a very heavy and not so fast death metal riff, but they still throw some technical parts in the middle and at the end of the riff.

Your idea of technical and my idea of technical are quite different. Origin is hardly technical to me.

... cause it's fucking obvious that these guys are not like Obscura or other noobs. There is some proper song-writting behind the technicality. If you can't hear it...

Quite honestly, Obscura > origin. Origin are actually more technical than obscura. Obscura can actually right good rhythms.

I can't stand you. I'm just as surprised as you that I'm bothering with this.

They often use typical slower and less technical riffs in their tracks to give a good structures to the song.

And by slower, you mean 16th notes.

You talk about structures so much and yet I doubt you could actually explain yourself at all.

A lame tech/death band will most of the time forget to write good rhythm guitars and focus only on the leads.

Like origin.

That's not what Origin does. Seriously, I feel so bad I have to explain this to you...

I feel bad that I have to explain that origin is comprised of the douchebags that just say " play whatever the hell you want, it doesn't have to fit together ".

But they are not just running up scales! That's just objectively FALSE. Listen to the track I linked you up to.

Not impressed. And you're partially right, they don't always run up scales, they tremolo up scales.

What I mean big boy, is that the strong elements of the album is how the rhythm and lead guitars really do a great job together. How the rhythm guitar just follows the lead for a few notes then play some chords and join back the lead guitar when he comes back down the scale.

Again I say, that is the most generic statement ever. That could be said for every other metal album.

.oh hey, good rhythmic tech death.

That European band called Pentagram sounds really good, and so does Stoned Jesus. Thanks for that, Bill.

Also, I got 2 of Vektor's albums because they're so good.

I still haven't listened to those death metal bands. I'll probably do that tomorrow.

And what do y'all think of my new sig?

At 8/25/11 05:13 PM, TheSporkLord wrote: Aberrant Vascular

I've heard of them before, but only checked them out after seeing you mention them right there. I can see the appeal, but I'm not digging it.

At 8/27/11 02:26 AM, HeavenDuff wrote: One album by Ulver that I never saw discussed in here is Svidd Neger. If you never listenned to it, then do it right away. It's the soundtrack to the movie of the same title.

Yep. I've heard all of their albums except for the new one. I've been meaning to get it. Svidd Neger has some really good tracks, but I'm not really interested in the movie.

Bergtatt and Nattens Madrigal were revolutionnary to Black Metal and Black/Folk Metal. And as you are a fan of Agalloch, I think that is something you cannot deny. Listenning to the album Pale Folklore, you cannot pretend not to notive the heavy influence of an album like Bergtatt.

Yeah, that's true, and they were great albums, but I think their best stuff was Perdition City, Blood Inside, and a Quick Fix of Melancholy.

At 8/27/11 12:06 PM, TheSporkLord wrote: The man who doesn't play an instrument can definitely say they are lacking in skill. Yep.

You don't have to be a film maker to be a film critic. You don't have to be a 4 star chef to know if the food you're eating isn't good. And you don't have to be a musician to know low quality music when you hear it. I don't have anything to say about Amon Amarth because I haven't listened to them much, but I just wanted to say that.

Agalloch. They leach of their " folk " label and their " atmosphere ". But if you get past that, you realize they're horribly " simplistic " with bad song structure.

Nah, they're great.

At 8/27/11 04:50 PM, TheSporkLord wrote: Wanton rip-offs of Soul Invictus and Fields of Nephelim. And I wouldn't ever call them " agressive black metal " That's just sacriligious. And yes, they do copy+paste off their other songs. Their only decent release was Pale Folklore.

They are influenced by Fields of the Nephelim, but they're still plenty different from them, especially considering FotN don't have elements of doom metal, black metal, post rock, or a hint of folk. And I think the Mantle, Ashes Against the Grain, and the White are all better than Pale Folklore, which is saying a lot because Pale Folklore was really good. I'd probably put it above Marrow of the Spirit, though, even though it was quite good. Also, I haven't heard of Sol Invictus, so I listened to some stuff on youtube, and again, there's a difference between ripping someone off and being influenced by them. They clearly have that sort of neofolk sound, but they still do their own thing, plus the vocalist in that band isn't very good. But then again, I'm not a vocalist, so I guess I'm not allowed to make an observation like that and mention it.

At 8/27/11 05:58 PM, TheSporkLord wrote: I suppose I also don't need to be a quantum physicist to judge an actual physicist's theories?

Now you're just being silly. You can't be serious.

At 8/28/11 08:02 PM, JaY11 wrote: Eh? If anything I'd label Obscura as one of the better technical death metal bands you mentioned that don't just constantly wank the guitars with no solid riffs or anything. Example..

Yeah, I agree. They have a lot of good songs, and the bassist is really good. If you want an example of a serious wankfest of a tech death band, I'd say Necrophagist is a perfect example. That Origin song Duff posted was cool, too. Also, thanks again for the sig.

At 8/28/11 09:45 PM, Sense-Offender wrote:

At 8/25/11 05:13 PM, TheSporkLord wrote: Aberrant Vascular

I've heard of them before, but only checked them out after seeing you mention them right there. I can see the appeal, but I'm not digging it.

That's cool. I kind of wish they would release a full length album. Might be better.

At 8/27/11 12:06 PM, TheSporkLord wrote: The man who doesn't play an instrument can definitely say they are lacking in skill. Yep.

You don't have to be a film maker to be a film critic. You don't have to be a 4 star chef to know if the food you're eating isn't good. And you don't have to be a musician to know low quality music when you hear it.

Well, as I said, you could think a food is good or enjoy it, but that doesn't mean it's actually good. People still like Brokencyde don't they?

I don't have anything to say about Amon Amarth because I haven't listened to them much, but I just wanted to say that.

That's cool. If you'd be interested at all with them I'd say check out their album With Oden On Our Side. Or maybe their album The Crusher.

Agalloch. They leach of their " folk " label and their " atmosphere ". But if you get past that, you realize they're horribly " simplistic " with bad song structure.

Nah, they're great.

I think they'd be so much better if they cut down the length of their songs. That's usually what kills it for me. Listening to the same thing forever and ever.

At 8/27/11 04:50 PM, TheSporkLord wrote: Wanton rip-offs of Soul Invictus and Fields of Nephelim. And I wouldn't ever call them " agressive black metal " That's just sacriligious. And yes, they do copy+paste off their other songs. Their only decent release was Pale Folklore.

They are influenced by Fields of the Nephelim, but they're still plenty different from them, especially considering FotN don't have elements of doom metal, black metal, post rock, or a hint of folk.

I meant that more in the folk way.

And I think the Mantle, Ashes Against the Grain, and the White are all better than Pale Folklore, which is saying a lot because Pale Folklore was really good.

I found it to be their most dynamic. The songs could actually keep my attention for the most part. Not so much for the other albums.

I'd probably put it above Marrow of the Spirit, though, even though it was quite good. Also, I haven't heard of Sol Invictus, so I listened to some stuff on youtube, and again, there's a difference between ripping someone off and being influenced by them. They clearly have that sort of neofolk sound, but they still do their own thing, plus the vocalist in that band isn't very good. But then again, I'm not a vocalist, so I guess I'm not allowed to make an observation like that and mention it.

Well, of course I said that in the whole folk scene. But yeah, I think vocals are different for the most part. If guitar is actually simple or easy then, its simple or easy. You can intentionally or unintentionally be bad. But vocals are much more dynamic.

At 8/27/11 05:58 PM, TheSporkLord wrote: I suppose I also don't need to be a quantum physicist to judge an actual physicist's theories?

Now you're just being silly. You can't be serious.

So that means that any idiot should actually be taken seriously when they don't actually know anything about quantum physics?

At 8/28/11 08:02 PM, JaY11 wrote: Eh? If anything I'd label Obscura as one of the better technical death metal bands you mentioned that don't just constantly wank the guitars with no solid riffs or anything. Example..

Yeah, I agree. They have a lot of good songs, and the bassist is really good. If you want an example of a serious wankfest of a tech death band, I'd say Necrophagist is a perfect example. That Origin song Duff posted was cool, too. Also, thanks again for the sig.

Ick, Never was a necrophagist fan. But yeah I like Obscura. I may have considered them wank when I first started listening to tech death, but after listening to others I realize they're pretty good.

That Origin song was boring. Were you two seriously arguing over whether they're wank or not? Because I couldn't even listen to 30 seconds of it.

So... much... bitching...

At 8/28/11 10:44 PM, Dalnaki wrote: That Origin song was boring. Were you two seriously arguing over whether they're wank or not? Because I couldn't even listen to 30 seconds of it.

It's the vocals that turned me off more then anything else.

You guys whine too much. You guys should argue over more important things, like whether Atheist or Death is better or over the definition of speed metal.

lololol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwxwUiDbR Ck

At 8/28/11 11:47 PM, AllMightyBruce wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwxwUiDbR Ck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5kPUFxXY Ls

At 8/28/11 08:02 PM, JaY11 wrote: Eh? If anything I'd label Obscura as one of the better technical death metal bands you mentioned that don't just constantly wank the guitars with no solid riffs or anything. Example..

I guess I chose a bad example...

At 8/28/11 09:40 PM, TheSporkLord wrote: I can admit when I'm wrong. Arguing with you is just pointless because you won't accept that you're ever wrong.

And when was I wrong in this discussion? Wait, I should admit I don't know shit about music, just to proove you I can accept I'm wrong sometimes. No, of course son. I believe I'm right. That's in fact, an important part of my argument, believing I'm right. When I don't know anything about the subject, I don't say a word or try to learn from others. When I know the matter we are discussing, I state my point of view and opinions. And yes, I believe I'm right when I argue about something.

If its easy I really don't see why you can't do it. Oh that's right, writing a riff on guitarpro doesn't mean shit. You can say its easy all you want, but it doesn't mean anything.

That's still dumb... I can't play Amon Amarth riffs, because I don't play the guitar. I can still very easily tell the difference between a simplistic riff like what Uneath writes and a Blotted Science or Pink Floyd riff.

Not it fucking isn't. To ACTUALLY understand music, you need to be a musician or have taken extensive musical courses, although I don't see why you would do that and still not play an instrument. There's quite the difference between actually understanding what they're doing and just talking about how their structure is when you can't really explain yourself.

Dumb... But for the records, I played saxophone, bass and did the vocals for a band.

I wanna hear some. And even then, its still not the same.

No, I won't dude. I already stated and explainned you how stupid your statement is. If I played for you, you would most likely just say I suck. And even if I didn't you would say I can't understand anything that is more complex than what I can play. I'm not falling for this, because your argument is plain wrong. I'm sorry.

What you said is stupid, there's a difference between using someone else's music to add to your own and actually knowing about music to create your own.

No. There is no difference. I don't play guitar, but still, when I listenned to The March by Unearth, I could tell exactly when they would throw in what kind of riff, break it down, start the chug-chug riff, start singing, switch to clean vocals, throw in the chorus and more. This is why I can tell if some music is simplistic and mediocre and if other music isn't. That's called, knowing how to listen to music and understanding it.

That's exactly what you fucking do! Are you that god damn thick headed?

You fail to understand. I never claimed your argument was wrong because of your personnality, your knowledge, your age, or anything that makes you who you are. I said your argument was dumb, not that you didn't knew shit about music and that you were just a fucking silly prick. But that's what you do, constantly.

You don't understand Ad Hominem, at all.

And to actually know what they're doing. Listening alone doesn't do anything. Nothing. I obviously wasn't always a guitarist and before I played guitar I understood absolutely nothing about music. It was just guitar to me. But after learning guitar it actually started to be more than that.

Everybody in here, is telling you right now, that your argument is stupid. You can't pretend one needs to be a musician to understand music. You can't and I explainned why. Now stop. This is pointless, and still you never EVER adressed this argument with solid arguments to proove that one needs to be a musician to understand music. EVER.

Origin are not like Beneath The Massacre or any of these chug-chug sweep-sweep chug-chug bands.

Yes they are. They most definitely are.

Proove it.

Why? Because they have riffs!!!

As do the aforementioned bands.

They have simplistic chug-chug riffs between their pointless sweeping parts. No riffs most of the time. Not even half of their song even include some kind of original song-writting. It's always the same formula. Origin is different.

Again, 32nd notes are cool. Also, I don't consider tremolo picking " riffs ". I heard nothing innovative or original here.

Maybe it's not working for you, but they are definitely original and unique. Just proove me, with some kind of support, that they aren't.

Your idea of technical and my idea of technical are quite different. Origin is hardly technical to me.

Ouch...

Quite honestly, Obscura > origin. Origin are actually more technical than obscura. Obscura can actually right good rhythms.

They write a brand of Tech Death I don't like, because they focus way too much on the lead guitars. I don't want another brand of melodeath disguised as tech death. I want real Death Metal, with technical riffs. That's Origin.

And by slower, you mean 16th notes.

Does it matter? Amon Amarth can play more notes than this in one riff. Tech Death is not just about playing fast, it's about writting technical riffs.

You talk about structures so much and yet I doubt you could actually explain yourself at all.

Just read the next part of your post. You keep prooving that you don't know shit about song structures and writting music either.

A lame tech/death band will most of the time forget to write good rhythm guitars and focus only on the leads.

Like origin.

See? You seem to believe that Origin focus on lead guitars. Did you ever listen to any Origin album? Like EVER ??? Or did you just listen to one track and decided they suck? No, I'm sorry... Origin focus way more on rhythm guitars.

At 8/28/11 09:45 PM, Sense-Offender wrote:

At 8/27/11 12:06 PM, TheSporkLord wrote: The man who doesn't play an instrument can definitely say they are lacking in skill. Yep.

You don't have to be a film maker to be a film critic. You don't have to be a 4 star chef to know if the food you're eating isn't good. And you don't have to be a musician to know low quality music when you hear it. I don't have anything to say about Amon Amarth because I haven't listened to them much, but I just wanted to say that.

Now also everybody told him so. Dalnaki, Tobi, Sense and I... I doubt he will ever understand this...

At 8/27/11 05:58 PM, TheSporkLord wrote: I suppose I also don't need to be a quantum physicist to judge an actual physicist's theories?

Now you're just being silly. You can't be serious.

Told him so...

Yeah, I agree. They have a lot of good songs, and the bassist is really good. If you want an example of a serious wankfest of a tech death band, I'd say Necrophagist is a perfect example. That Origin song Duff posted was cool, too. Also, thanks again for the sig.

I've bitched against Obscura, but I shouldn't have. They are pretty good. I like the bass, but maybe their sound just isn't my thing. Too melodic for my taste. I like Tech Death like Origin and Fleshgod Apocalypse.

At 8/28/11 09:57 PM, TheSporkLord wrote: Well, as I said, you could think a food is good or enjoy it, but that doesn't mean it's actually good. People still like Brokencyde don't they?

Are you out of your mind? I must seriously ask. These kids who like Brokencyde have no kind of musical knowledge, and most of the time, they really don't care much about actual artistic value. If I didn't know shit about music, why would I enjoy such a large variety of different artists and musical genres? Just why? Why are you so stubborn?

Yes, you can enjoy low quality stuff. When I eat at McDonalds, I enjoy eating McNuggets and a Big Mac. Does that mean I can't tell the difference between a 4 stars chief's food and McDonalds food? Of fucking course not!

I found it to be their most dynamic. The songs could actually keep my attention for the most part. Not so much for the other albums.

Funny how you don't insult him for liking Agalloch at least as much as I do. I'm really waiting for the part when you are going to tell him he has no kind of understanding of music for liking such a putrid uncreative and shitty band.

At 8/28/11 10:44 PM, Dalnaki wrote: That Origin song was boring. Were you two seriously arguing over whether they're wank or not? Because I couldn't even listen to 30 seconds of it.

Seing how you hate all Death Metal that isn't Old-School Death Metal, I really wasn't expecting you to like this.

Fuck me.

My new song is sounding great.

At 8/29/11 06:32 AM, batman64 wrote: This

The bass in this is fucking sick.

Any Equilibrium fans here?

I've read most of the arguments between Spork and Duff and both of you do need to improve on debating. Calling each other fucking dumb or manchild is only adding fuel to the flames. Hopefully after this post I can see more reasonable responses from both of you.

At 8/28/11 06:06 PM, HeavenDuff wrote:

At 8/28/11 08:36 AM, Bahamut wrote: Speaking of melodeath, I never looked into Dark Tranquility or At the Gates. I've given plenty of lesser known artists a chance but not them. Maybe I should change that...

Dark Tranquillity is an awesome band. I highly recommand the album Damage Done :) Character is also another good album by them.

Hmm, Spotify only has The Gallery and The Mind's I. How are those?

At 8/28/11 09:45 PM, Sense-Offender wrote: You don't have to be a film maker to be a film critic.

To back up that claim: Roger fucking Ebert. He's one of the most well known critics yet he hasn't made a single film himself. I actually admire that since it shows you don't need to be an expert at songwriting to review an album. I have no intentions to be in a band or anything but I do want to review many albums from heavy metal.

Duffie is french.

What's spork's excuse?

Have you guys heard Insomnium's new song "Unsung", they sent a download link to their newsletter subcribers and it's amazing, they just can't disappoint me, it's full of emotion and beauty.

"All the years in vain I fought
All my deeds have gone to nought
Unsung is the tale of mine
Mislaid till the end of time"

At 8/29/11 08:50 AM, Bahamut wrote: Any Equilibrium fans here?

Will read it :)

I've read most of the arguments between Spork and Duff and both of you do need to improve on debating. Calling each other fucking dumb or manchild is only adding fuel to the flames. Hopefully after this post I can see more reasonable responses from both of you.

Mmm... Like I said, I didn't call him dumb. I said his argument was dumb. And maybe the fact that he kept throwing it back in without any logical explanations to why it should be the way he described it, made me kind of upset. I don't remember ever saying he was stupid. I might have said it out loud in front of my computer, but I didn't post it in here ;)

Hmm, Spotify only has The Gallery and The Mind's I. How are those?

I feel stupid now... I never listenned to much more than two albums by them. I don't know why... I loved Damage Done, but I bought it when I was a teenager. Back then, I didn't have a lot of money to spend on albums and didn't had any good download program or website. I loved the album, but never got to listen to much more from them. I guess I will have to listen to those to tell you if they are worth it.

To back up that claim: Roger fucking Ebert. He's one of the most well known critics yet he hasn't made a single film himself. I actually admire that since it shows you don't need to be an expert at songwriting to review an album. I have no intentions to be in a band or anything but I do want to review many albums from heavy metal.

Amen

At 8/29/11 09:44 AM, AniMetal wrote: Duffie is french.

Please, make the difference between French from France and French from Quebec. Both cultures and languages are very different.

What's spork's excuse?

Dunno, ask him.