At 10/19/10 09:43 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: By alright... are you saying that they are worth getting a few more listens?

sure

At 10/19/10 09:53 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: Where did you read that we refused Opeth? Rammstein is the third band we refused.

yup

At 10/19/10 09:53 PM, HeavenDuff wrote:

At 10/19/10 09:47 PM, JustinB6 wrote: just curious, i can understand korn and limp bizkit but why not opeth? I remember this one interview from matt pike of high on fire and he said "if pink floyd went metal, they'd be opeth". They're pretty good too.

Where did you read that we refused Opeth? Rammstein is the third band we refused.

This should have been obvious.
So in other news, Origin's Antithesis is still fucking awesome.
Also, who knows the Mike Patton project called Tomahawk? Cause they're sick. Not really THAT metal, or even metal at all I'm sure by some standards, but hey, we all appreciate talent, right?

At 10/19/10 09:53 PM, HeavenDuff wrote:

At 10/19/10 09:47 PM, JustinB6 wrote: just curious, i can understand korn and limp bizkit but why not opeth? I remember this one interview from matt pike of high on fire and he said "if pink floyd went metal, they'd be opeth". They're pretty good too.

Where did you read that we refused Opeth? Rammstein is the third band we refused.

what! i thought that was the one accepted lol. so industrial metal has no place here?

At 10/20/10 12:54 AM, JustinB6 wrote: what! i thought that was the one accepted lol. so industrial metal has no place here?

Industrial Metal, yes. Industrial Rock, no.

On Wikipedia, they say Rammstein plays Neue Deutsche Härte and that this is a sub-genre of rock music that would mix elements of German Rock, Hard Rock, Groove Metal, Nu-Metal (which isn't even a genre of metal), Electronic Music and Techno.

Knowing that Nu-Metal is just another mix of Hardcore music and Hard Rock, and that Groove Metal is one of the biggest influences of new hardcore music like Hatebreed, I really shouldn't even consider the very few "Metal" influences found in Rammstein's music to be legitimate Metal. Even if we would, these very few influences would still be drowned in the ocean of other influences, which are mainly Hard Rock, Electronic Music and Techno.

At 10/19/10 08:59 PM, D3NTATUS wrote:

derp what

Derp vocalist.

At 10/19/10 09:43 PM, HeavenDuff wrote:

You can be core even if you don't chug, have breakdowns or any of the things you just mentionned... It's the kind of riffs they play... the general song structures... their leads guitars...

I think you may have misunderstood my post, I was saying that they are not a cross between metal and hardcore, because..well they're just not, there isn't a single element of hardcore in their music, and if there is it's probably some technical drum or guitar doodad that I'm not privy to.

I'm aware they have core influences however, so many real metal bands do these days, but having core influences does not immediately make them a core band.

alongside their death metal influences (vocals)

So please, just accept that they are a core band... or at least stop bothering us everysingle time we speak this oh so awful thruth.

Hey if everyone else is allowed to initiate a minor argument over a disagreement I want in too :P

That is still not keeping them from being good. You can still enjoy their music a lot and understand that it's a band that stands in between two genres.

See here, you say 'in between', you are not saying they are strictly core, which is what I'm trying to explain, not very well I must admit.

You just happened to pick their most core sounding song..try I Worship Only What You Bleed and Climatic Degradation, from the same album.

Have you listened to their latest album Deflorate? If not I'd suggest you listen to these songs to see how their sound has changed: Black Valor, Necropolis, Death Panorama, and I Will Return.

Yes I am in a very pedantic mood

At 10/20/10 01:15 AM, HeavenDuff wrote:

guess i never really thought about it like that, i always considered rammstein as another metal band

At 10/19/10 09:43 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: You probably know the song What A Horrible Night To Have A Curse

You tell me what in this song is not core... please... Just take the first riff... typical core riff and it keeps on going until they go in a technical riff at something like 0:40... than they just go back to the core riff. Man !! I don't even know why I'm still listenning to this song to try and explain you why it's metalcore... IT JUST SCREAMS COOOOOORE !!! So please, just accept that they are a core band... or at least stop bothering us everysingle time we speak this oh so awful thruth.

What the hell are you on about. Core riff? There's no difference between a core riff and a metal riff. Surely the absence of a breakdown should tip you off to the fat they aren't core. Until you actually define what makes them core, instead of just going, "yeah that parts so core, oh thats totally core" then you just look like an idiot.

At 10/19/10 08:01 PM, Sense-Offender wrote:

At 10/19/10 03:46 PM, Centurion-Ryan wrote: Anyone else here a fan of Melechesh?

I like Melechesh. They just released a new album.

Oh, cool. I'll have to check it out.

At 10/19/10 02:48 PM, HeavenDuff wrote:

At 10/19/10 09:50 AM, TheDaemonicPoet wrote: So, this is Melodic Metalcore, but I can't understand why it's not enough Metal.

Shadows Fall are one of the first bands to start the Metalcore genre. I guess they were metal enough if they managed to get the word metal in front of the core (along with some other bands). I guess you could say that they are metal to an extant, but it's still a different genre to me.

You have to understand that saying a band is not metal, is not necessarily a way for us to bring it down. I know a lot of people in the Hell, do hate metalcore. I'm not one of those and still, I think the difference between Metal and Hardcore is very important. Some bands are somewhere in between the two genres though, bands like The Black Dahlia Murder. So I really don't know... Call them metal if you want to, but at least remember why Attack Attack! is not metal :P

I can understand why Attack Atack!, TBDM and Slipknot is not metal. But Shadows Fall do have a Metal structure in their songs, I don't know if the problem is the angry shouting. But listen to ABRB and Shadows Fall, they're both Metalcore bands and you can't really compare them.

At 10/20/10 08:07 AM, ZpLiNtEh wrote:

At 10/19/10 09:43 PM, HeavenDuff wrote:

You can be core even if you don't chug, have breakdowns or any of the things you just mentionned... It's the kind of riffs they play... the general song structures... their leads guitars...

I think you may have misunderstood my post, I was saying that they are not a cross between metal and hardcore, because..well they're just not, there isn't a single element of hardcore in their music, and if there is it's probably some technical drum or guitar doodad that I'm not privy to.

there is a lot of metalcore elements in their music.

I'm aware they have core influences however, so many real metal bands do these days, but having core influences does not immediately make them a core band.

Name some bands please.

alongside their death metal influences (vocals)

Growls and screams can be found in core music.

See here, you say 'in between', you are not saying they are strictly core, which is what I'm trying to explain, not very well I must admit.

This is why they are a Melodic Death Metal/Metalcore band. They have songs of both genres.

You just happened to pick their most core sounding song..try I Worship Only What You Bleed and Climatic Degradation, from the same album.

Just listenned to I Worship Only What You Bleed. Even if I understand what you mean, even if they don't play chug-chug riffs and breakdowns, they still have metalcore riffs. However, they do have a lot of melodic death metal elements in their music.

Have you listened to their latest album Deflorate? If not I'd suggest you listen to these songs to see how their sound has changed: Black Valor, Necropolis, Death Panorama, and I Will Return.

Dunno about this one, sorry. I will check it out later.

At 10/20/10 12:15 PM, SomaGuye wrote: What the hell are you on about. Core riff? There's no difference between a core riff and a metal riff. Surely the absence of a breakdown should tip you off to the fat they aren't core. Until you actually define what makes them core, instead of just going, "yeah that parts so core, oh thats totally core" then you just look like an idiot.

So I sound like an idiot because I am not saying "Hey, listen to that specific chord progression at 0:45, it's very core."

Fuck you! I'm not that much into the musical theory, but I can tell a core riff from a metal riff. Sad for you if you can't. But if you can explain me how the song What An Horrible Night To Have A Curse is not metalcore, than feel free to do it. I'll have a good time laughing.

At 10/20/10 01:16 PM, TheDaemonicPoet wrote: I can understand why Attack Atack!, TBDM and Slipknot is not metal. But Shadows Fall do have a Metal structure in their songs, I don't know if the problem is the angry shouting. But listen to ABRB and Shadows Fall, they're both Metalcore bands and you can't really compare them.

I guess that's why the first metalcore bands could legitimely be called "metalcore", while bands like August Burns Red are hardcore with a little melodic metal influence...

I know what you mean, and I guess there is no disagreement between you and I. You might want to ask some of the other guys to answer your questions.

At 10/19/10 02:41 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: Oh yes, Metal... em... Anybody going to get Agalloch's next full lenght? It's coming out in November !!!

Not until I get into the other Agalloch albums and get a good feel of their music. I feel I'm about to wrap up 2010 for me with the new releases coming over the next week or two.

At 10/19/10 08:01 PM, Sense-Offender wrote:

At 10/19/10 12:08 PM, Bahamut wrote: Not bad but nothing can beat Metal Hell's 666th page.

</nostalgia>

too bad Gendo ain't around anymore.

Too bad Ghoul isn't around anymore. I'd mention Goatchrist but he does show up once in a while, even though it's been ages since his last visit here.

At 10/19/10 10:34 PM, greensucksbluerules wrote: Can you blame him? The forums have gone to shit.

I actually think the forums have improved from the last few years regardless of modship.

Oh ffs, you really have no idea. You're just repeating yourself now, THEY'RE CORE BECAUSE THEY HAVE CORE RIFFS. No, just no. There may be the occasional riff that sounds like something out of a core band, but the vast majority of their guitarwork is not metalcore.

Parkway Drive are core, All That Remains are core, As I Lay Dying are core, August Burns Red are core, Atreyu are core, The Agonist are core, The Devil Wears Prada are core, The Black Dahlia Murder are not, core.

They have no similarities to any of the above bands. If you actually listened to more than 1 or 2 songs, you would realise this. You're just basing your assumption on what little you've heard.

At 10/20/10 01:38 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: Fuck you! I'm not that much into the musical theory, but I can tell a core riff from a metal riff. Sad for you if you can't. But if you can explain me how the song What An Horrible Night To Have A Curse is not metalcore, than feel free to do it. I'll have a good time laughing.

That burden doesn't lie with me, you've claimed it's a core riff, exxplain the reasoning behind your decision. And don't just say "it sounds core".

When you say "core riff", do you mean that one riff from Spirit Crusher that every Metalcore band uses?

He guys, you know the Swedish band called Lake of Tears? I discovered it yesterday and I loved it. I recommend it, is awesome. Doom and Gothic Metal. (I questioned to my friends that if they know that band, nobody say yes.)

At 10/19/10 08:01 PM, Sense-Offender wrote:

At 10/18/10 05:06 AM, PenisClown wrote: I've yet to hear power metal that doesn't sound fairy princessy.

Rebellion. not exactly my thing, but they're power metal and definitely not flower metal.

I love that shit! Btw, Hammerfall has balls...

At 10/20/10 02:13 PM, SomaGuye wrote: And don't just say "it sounds core".

Because the way a riff sounds is not nearly enough to judge what it's influences may have been. Lol.

Old Classics

At 10/20/10 04:14 PM, Dalp wrote: He guys, you know the Swedish band called Lake of Tears? I discovered it yesterday and I loved it. I recommend it, is awesome. Doom and Gothic Metal. (I questioned to my friends that if they know that band, nobody say yes.)

Sounds pretty cool, I'll check em out myself.

At 10/20/10 10:02 PM, CapnCrunchDaPimp wrote: Sounds pretty cool, I'll check em out myself.

Tell me if you liked the band.

At 10/20/10 10:21 PM, Dalp wrote:

At 10/20/10 10:02 PM, CapnCrunchDaPimp wrote: Sounds pretty cool, I'll check em out myself.

Tell me if you liked the band.

Will do, Mr. Recommender.

At 10/20/10 01:49 PM, Bahamut wrote:

At 10/19/10 02:41 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: Oh yes, Metal... em... Anybody going to get Agalloch's next full lenght? It's coming out in November !!!

Not until I get into the other Agalloch albums and get a good feel of their music. I feel I'm about to wrap up 2010 for me with the new releases coming over the next week or two.

Should start working on this man :P

At 10/20/10 02:13 PM, SomaGuye wrote:

At 10/20/10 01:38 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: Fuck you! I'm not that much into the musical theory, but I can tell a core riff from a metal riff. Sad for you if you can't. But if you can explain me how the song What An Horrible Night To Have A Curse is not metalcore, than feel free to do it. I'll have a good time laughing.

That burden doesn't lie with me, you've claimed it's a core riff, exxplain the reasoning behind your decision. And don't just say "it sounds core".

And I asked you a fucking question. How is the song What A Horrible Night To Have A Curse is NOT metalcore. It is, all the way, they chug through the whole song, adding a few notes from the scale in between every chug-chug part. The vocals are shouted, like in hardcore music, but with a melodeath scream kind of voice... Dude... I just don't feel like wasting my time with this. Metal Archives says they are metalcore, Wikipedia says they are metalcore, their faces say they are metalcore... Fighting with me and bringing down my argument is not going to change the facts. If you want people giving you very specific explanations on how they are metalcore, than go, enjoy yourself trying to find these people...

Look, I'll just quote people who reviewed some of their work on Metal Archives:

"For some reason it seems necessary to provide a fairly simple disclaimer when discussing the Black Dahlia Murder; they play Gothenburg-inspired melodic death metal with a sound not that far removed from metalcore; obviously people who detest those genres will hate the Black Dahlia Murder, and their opinions on the band aren't really interesting, regardless of their validity."

"Obviously I wasn't in the studio with these guys, but the bass drum sounds horrible and triggered. The rest of the kit is better, but the bass drum carries that try-hard snappy tone so typical of shit metalcore bands and it really hurts the authenticity I think the band (or maybe half the band) was trying to achieve."

"If you enjoy the hybrid of melodic death, brutal death and slight metalcore elements The Black Dahlia Murder is for you, they do it best"

"So what does a band like the Black Dahlia Murder do to standout in this insipid and ever so saturated melodic death/metalcore genre replete with similar bands such as At The Throne Of Judgment and As Blood Runs Black?? Well they come up with an album like "Nocturnal". Its as simple as that."

To be fair, I'd like to tell you that I see them as both a melodic death metal band and a metalcore band, for they share elements of the TWO GENRES. Than, a lot of people do not agree on how much they are influenced by metalcore music...

It still kills me that you guys cannot accept these influences as an important part of what makes TBDM...

At 10/20/10 07:41 PM, TakeNoPrisoners wrote:

At 10/20/10 02:13 PM, SomaGuye wrote: And don't just say "it sounds core".

Because the way a riff sounds is not nearly enough to judge what it's influences may have been. Lol.

Thanks for the support :)

Why does Mustaine's signature look fake?

At 10/21/10 12:34 AM, SpeedMetalSandwich wrote: Why does Mustaine's signature look fake?

Cause it probably is?

Btw, I just wanted to thanks the guys from the Hell for introducing me to Sunn O))) I'm starting to really enjoy Drone Metal and I would like to get to know a few bands a little more. Maybe you could suggest some music that would sound somewhat like Sunn O))) or Boris. By the way guys, I've listenned to Absolutego, the 65 minutes long song by Boris. I suggest everybody give it a listen. Once the title is over, it feels like you've never heard silence before.

I would also like people to rank Sunn O))) albums from best to worst (if there is a worst :P) or favorite to least favorite. So I might know where to start from. Btw, I already own The Black One.

Sunn O))) - It Took The Night To Believe

At 10/21/10 01:00 AM, HeavenDuff wrote:

At 10/21/10 12:34 AM, SpeedMetalSandwich wrote: Why does Mustaine's signature look fake?

Cause it probably is?

I got it from Newbury Comics, though.

At 10/21/10 01:14 AM, SpeedMetalSandwich wrote:

At 10/21/10 01:00 AM, HeavenDuff wrote:

At 10/21/10 12:34 AM, SpeedMetalSandwich wrote: Why does Mustaine's signature look fake?

Cause it probably is?

I got it from Newbury Comics, though.

I don't know actually. I was kidding. What makes you think it's fake than?

At 10/21/10 12:24 AM, HeavenDuff wrote: And I asked you a fucking question. How is the song What A Horrible Night To Have A Curse is NOT metalcore. It is, all the way, they chug through the whole song, adding a few notes from the scale in between every chug-chug part. The vocals are shouted, like in hardcore music, but with a melodeath scream kind of voice... Dude... I just don't feel like wasting my time with this.

lol you're still going on about that one song, try listening to their newest album like I suggested and you would know for a fact, it is not a core album.

Metal Archives, Wikipedia

Are edited by people with their own views and opinions, quite often people are wrong

their faces say they are metalcore...

So it's not only how people dress it's now how their faces look that determine their genre? Right.

Look, I'll just quote people who reviewed some of their work on Metal Archives:

Mmkay

a sound not that far removed from metalcore

It's still removed from metalcore, funnily enough

Obviously I wasn't in the studio with these guys, but the bass drum sounds horrible and triggered.

Personal opinion, one of my mates thinks the same, but irrelevant to our discussion.

If you enjoy the hybrid of melodic death, brutal death and slight metalcore elements The Black Dahlia Murder is for you, they do it best

I'm sorry I thought you were trying to prove they were core? He just said what I said, melodic death metal with elements of core.

Well they come up with an album like "Nocturnal". Its as simple as that."

That's a compliment towards them..

To be fair, I'd like to tell you that I see them as both a melodic death metal band and a metalcore band, for they share elements of the TWO GENRES.

Just say it then, because that's what they are, melodic death metal with elements of core, like I've been saying. They are not a metalcore band as you keep saying.

Than, a lot of people do not agree on how much they are influenced by metalcore music...

Not much, I only hear metalcore influences in some guitarwork and occasional drumwork

It still kills me that you guys cannot accept these influences as an important part of what makes TBDM...

I do accept the influences, I've just been repeatedly trying to explain to you that they are not a core band.

I'm not trying to be a dick to you, I'm just fed up with people claiming TBDM to be core when they clearly are not. They sound literally nothing like any core band I've heard. The closest sounding band I have in my iTunes is Bleed From Within, and that's deathcore with boring riffs and generic breakdowns.

and a vocalist who looks like oli sykes

At 10/21/10 01:38 AM, HeavenDuff wrote:

At 10/21/10 01:14 AM, SpeedMetalSandwich wrote:

At 10/21/10 01:00 AM, HeavenDuff wrote:

At 10/21/10 12:34 AM, SpeedMetalSandwich wrote: Why does Mustaine's signature look fake?

Cause it probably is?

I got it from Newbury Comics, though.

I don't know actually. I was kidding. What makes you think it's fake than?

Dunno, just looks very...yeah. I've seen his signature in that book he wrote, and it does look a little like this one...maybe because he had a little less room to work with.

At 10/21/10 01:00 AM, HeavenDuff wrote: I would also like people to rank Sunn O))) albums from best to worst (if there is a worst :P) or favorite to least favorite. So I might know where to start from. Btw, I already own The Black One.

Sunn O))) - It Took The Night To Believe

For me, I only own two of their albums, Monoliths and Dimesions and The Flight of the Behemoth. I prefer Monoliths over Behemoth, but that's just me.

Also, I've been listening to a lot of Vader on the internet lately, which albums of theirs should I pick up? I already have Impressions in Blood, are there any others I should get?

At 10/21/10 01:00 AM, HeavenDuff wrote:

At 10/21/10 12:34 AM, SpeedMetalSandwich wrote: Why does Mustaine's signature look fake?

Cause it probably is?

Btw, I just wanted to thanks the guys from the Hell for introducing me to Sunn O))) I'm starting to really enjoy Drone Metal and I would like to get to know a few bands a little more. Maybe you could suggest some music that would sound somewhat like Sunn O))) or Boris. By the way guys, I've listenned to Absolutego, the 65 minutes long song by Boris. I suggest everybody give it a listen. Once the title is over, it feels like you've never heard silence before.

I would also like people to rank Sunn O))) albums from best to worst (if there is a worst :P) or favorite to least favorite. So I might know where to start from. Btw, I already own The Black One.

Sunn O))) - It Took The Night To Believe

Theres this band called OM that I huess you can consider drone metal. After Sleep broke up, the guitarist went to form High on Fire while the bassist and drummer formed OM. Some early Melvins too, preferably their Lysol days when they salty joe preston as their bassist.