At 7/4/10 12:12 PM, Dalnaki wrote:

At 7/4/10 11:50 AM, TheSporkLord wrote: So I was thinking about posting this on my alt but The zeppelin deserves more than that. HOW IN THE FUCK IS LED ZEPPELIN NOT HEAVY METAL?!

The same reason every other blues rock band isn't metal.

So because a band has a blues influence they're not metal? Almost every main genre of music was born from some type of blues, so you might as well call every other genre of music blues "x ".

At 7/4/10 11:50 AM, TheSporkLord wrote: So I was thinking about posting this on my alt but The zeppelin deserves more than that. HOW IN THE FUCK IS LED ZEPPELIN NOT HEAVY METAL?!

They're not heavy metal because they themselves disliked the term and preferred to be called rock and roll.
They definitely are a big part of the origin of heavy metal, and helped start off NWOBHM, but they are not metal.

At 7/4/10 10:49 AM, Bahamut wrote:

At 7/4/10 03:44 AM, AniMetal wrote: Early Testament is pretty good(like their first three albums or something like that) but after that they're one of the blandest, least inspired thrash metal bands i've ever heard.

I listened to The Legacy a while ago and to be honest, I was disappointed. Maybe The New Order is better?

Souls of Black is good shit too. And "the blandest, least inspired thrash metal band" they most certainly are not... Not the best, especially after First Strike Still Deadly, but Low and The Gathering are still awesome, and their live albums are pretty sick too.

Heavy metal is traditionally characterized by loud distorted guitars, emphatic rhythms, dense bass-and-drum sound, and vigorous vocals.

There is no exact characteristic to define heavy metal. And blues rock was more of the acts like Robert Johnson, muddy waters, Hendrix, and SRV.

Yes Zeppelin had a huge blues influence but what they wrote wasn't carbon copied from other blues songs. The added guitar, lyrics, drum,bass to songs that probably didn't even have it. Besides if you want to go that route, then death and black metal is the same thing as thrash.

At 7/4/10 12:18 PM, TheSporkLord wrote:

At 7/4/10 12:12 PM, Dalnaki wrote:

At 7/4/10 11:50 AM, TheSporkLord wrote: So I was thinking about posting this on my alt but The zeppelin deserves more than that. HOW IN THE FUCK IS LED ZEPPELIN NOT HEAVY METAL?!

The same reason every other blues rock band isn't metal.

So because a band has a blues influence they're not metal? Almost every main genre of music was born from some type of blues, so you might as well call every other genre of music blues "x ".

Because they're blues rock, they're not metal. It's not really that hard to understand, is it?

death and black metal is the same thing as thrash.

Pffffft. Now you're just oversimplifying everything. It may look like that on paper, if you had extremely skewed perceptions, but they're not the same.

At 7/4/10 12:59 PM, Dalnaki wrote:

At 7/4/10 12:18 PM, TheSporkLord wrote:

Because they're blues rock, they're not metal. It's not really that hard to understand, is it?

They're heavy metal, as I posted above.

death and black metal is the same thing as thrash.

Pffffft. Now you're just oversimplifying everything. It may look like that on paper, if you had extremely skewed perceptions, but they're not the same.

And I don't. Led Zeppelin is heavy metal with strong blues influences.

led zeppelin too me is just plain old rock and roll nothing else no characteristics they can perform a variety of songs from battle of evermore to kashmir

you know what band isn't in the metal-archives?

led zeppelin

At 7/4/10 02:32 PM, D3NTATUS wrote: you know what band isn't in the metal-archives?

led zeppelin

Metal archives is filled with nothing but those " tr00 " metalheads. But please tell me musically how Led Zeppelin isn't heavy metal.

At 7/4/10 02:45 PM, TheSporkLord wrote: Metal archives is filled with nothing but those " tr00 " metalheads. But please tell me musically how Led Zeppelin isn't heavy metal.

okeydokey (while metal archives is filled with elitists, it's also the closest thing we'll ever have to a legitimate archive of real metal bands)

they're blues rock

seriously, how many times do we have to say it? they're not metal in the same way that AC/DC aren't metal; they're hard rock or blues rock. Sometimes even bordering on folk rock, like with Stairway to Heaven and Battle of Evermore.

This is "Rock and Roll" by Led Zeppelin. Note how they use a blues chord progression (I-IV-V).

Here's "Whole Lotta Love." Again, this is rock. This isn't metal. It's heavy, sure, but it doesn't sound metal. They use the blues scale extensively in this song.

Compare Led Zeppelin to their metal contemporaries; Black Sabbath? Metal. Judas Priest? Metal. Led Zeppelin? Not metal. They sound different, and I don't understand how anyone could consider Led Zeppelin to be metal.

Black Dog. Extensive use of the blues scale.

Now here's "War Pigs," by Black Sabbath. Here a difference? Yes. You do. The difference is that there's very little blues influence in their sound, because unlike Zep, Sabbath are metal. This could have been written ten years ago and it would still be metal.

Another major difference between metal and Zeppelin is the use of the augmented fourth/diminished fifth (tritone). It's dissonant, and metal uses it extensively. Zeppelin, however, doesn't. Also, downtuned guitars. Led Zeppelin never did any of that.

At 7/4/10 03:03 PM, D3NTATUS wrote: Points

You forgot to mention that Led Zeppelin never sang about Satan or wore spiked leather, too.

At 7/4/10 03:31 PM, Dalnaki wrote: You forgot to mention that Led Zeppelin never sang about Satan or wore spiked leather, too.

that's true. i also forgot to mention how they're also not Manowar, and therefore not metal

At 7/4/10 03:36 PM, D3NTATUS wrote:

At 7/4/10 03:31 PM, Dalnaki wrote: You forgot to mention that Led Zeppelin never sang about Satan or wore spiked leather, too.

that's true. i also forgot to mention how they're also not Manowar, and therefore not metal

There is that whole backwards part in Stairway that totally isn't a coincidence, but yeah, they're not Metal. Just listen to them for Christs sake.

And its true, they are not Manowar.

At 7/3/10 06:20 PM, Nev wrote: I understand Death Metal fine, thank you. I just also understand that its not very good. It's mostly noisy shit that thinks its Brutal. When in fact you don't get more Brutal than Carcass :).

I've barely seen any Death Metal bands act like they are brutal... There is, like in every genres, posers that ruins the image of the genre. But let's not judge the whole genre based only on these bands.

And still, even if they act like they are brutal, write lyrics about murdering people and eating their lever and shit like that. They can still have a great instrumental.

And are Necrophagist popular? They're certainly not over here.

Popular among the genre...

And as for why you don't call it Wank Death Metal is cause it'd just be too true for you fans to realise :P.

I suggest you start listenning to Death Metal more carefully. Start by reading some reviews on Metal Archives. You will realise that a lot of Tech Death fans give good scores to tech death bands like Gorod and Origin, but tend to give bad scores to bands like Braindrill. There is actually a difference between random wanking and a good technical riff.

At 7/3/10 06:21 PM, SomeAlt wrote: So because Duff is always ranting about origin, I gave them a listen. I must say I absolutely despise everything about that band. All I heard was a clusterfuck of noise.

You think I fuckind jizzed myself when I first heard Origin? Of fucking course not. It's far too fucking complex, agressive, technical, fast and brutal to be understood the first few times you listen to it. But I persevered and tried to understand why people were liking them and after a few listens, I really got into their music and now I like it. But if it's too hard for you... just stick to Nightwish or other pop metal.

You have to take your time to fully appreciate what they do.

At 7/4/10 03:44 AM, AniMetal wrote:

I'm still alive btw. Also: Duff almost all those tech. death metal bands DO wank, ESPECIALLY Blotted Science and Brain Drill. I think wanking in music is fucking awesome though, so I kinda agree with you wanting to defend them.

You probably missed the part where I explain why I don't want to call it wanking. Wanking is a pejorative term. I consider that bands like Braindrill and Beneath The Massacre are wankers. They write the most technical stuff possible, but their riffs are generic, there is almost no song progression and at the end of the song, there is nothing memorable. Which is not the case for Blotted Science.

At 7/4/10 08:43 AM, Dalnaki wrote:

I make you mad with everything I say, don't I? I must be your archenemy or something. Observation aside, I can say with confidence that I know more about DM than you. Also, I know there's techdeath that doesn't wank. I know because I've listened to it. While it's not exactly my cup of tea, stuff like Demented Ted, Gorguts, Violent Dirge, Chemical Breath, etc is alright. You should listen to those bands sometime, to hear what it's like when techdeath isn't about wanking.

"I can say with confidence that I know more about DM than you."

That is the silliest and most judgemental post you dropped like a shit on this forum. I could do a band wagon of all the Death Metal bands I know. But that would be worthless. I really don't have anything to proove to you. I know a lot of Tech Death, Blackened Death, Brutal Death, Old-School Death, Progressive Death and all the sub-genres of Death Metal. I don't need to have 23438 DM bands on my playlist to tell you that I know a lot about Death Metal.

At 7/4/10 04:16 PM, Nev wrote:

And its true, they are not Manowar.

That just never gets old.

Are we seriously arguing about this?

Btw, I saw Keith Jarrett, Gary Peacock and Jack DeJohnette yesterday. That was an awesome show :)

At 7/4/10 05:23 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: I could do a band wagon of all the Death Metal bands I know. But that would be worthless. I really don't have anything to proove to you. I know a lot of Tech Death, Blackened Death, Brutal Death, Old-School Death, Progressive Death and all the sub-genres of Death Metal. I don't need to have 23438 DM bands on my playlist to tell you that I know a lot about Death Metal.

And yet all you do is talk about wankdeath. I've never seen you talk about classics like Autopsy, Incantation, Bolt Thrower, Morbid Saint, etc, even once since I started posting in Metal Hell again a few months back. Hell, I bet you don't even know who they are.

Not to mention the fact that you seem to have very little interest in DM that doesn't have at a sweep to song ratio that's higher than 30.

At 7/4/10 08:39 AM, Coop83UsedToBeCool wrote: 'The Sweetest Curse' is my current favourite Baroness track. I always thought Isak was da bomb though. So both of them live anyway :D

Why does no one else think O'er Hell and Hide is the best song on Blue Record?

At 7/4/10 05:41 PM, Dalnaki wrote:

And yet all you do is talk about wankdeath. I've never seen you talk about classics like Autopsy, Incantation, Bolt Thrower, Morbid Saint, etc, even once since I started posting in Metal Hell again a few months back. Hell, I bet you don't even know who they are.

Not to mention the fact that you seem to have very little interest in DM that doesn't have at a sweep to song ratio that's higher than 30.

Hey son, I was giving BAND SUGGESTIONS !!! The guy mentionned very technical bands and asked for suggestions. What the fuck do you think I was gonna do? Give him links to Morbid Angel's songs? Fuck you!

You should realise that I'm a big Tech Death fan, so of fucking course, I'll have more Tech Death bands on my playlist.

So em... you asked for it... I'll make a short list of a few DM bands I know.

I'll leave the Melodic Death Metal bands aside for my list. Even though, bands like Kalmah are amongs the greatest bands I know :)

Aborted
Aeon
Atheist
Augury
Behemoth
Biolich
Benighted
Blood Red Throne
Blotted Science
Brain Drill
Cannibal Corpse
Cynic
Death
Decapitated
Decrepit Birth
Deeds Of Flesh
Deteriorot
Dying Fetus
Fleshgod Apocalypse
Gorod
Gorguts
Hate Eternal
Immolation
Krisiun
Kronos
Martyr
Morbid Angel
Necrophagist
Neuraxis
Nile
Obituary
Obscura
Origin
Panzerchrist
Pestilence
Psycroptic
Quo Vadis
Spawn of Possession
Suffocation
The Faceless

At 7/4/10 12:22 PM, hypersomniax wrote: Souls of Black is good shit too. And "the blandest, least inspired thrash metal band" they most certainly are not... Not the best, especially after First Strike Still Deadly, but Low and The Gathering are still awesome, and their live albums are pretty sick too.

The only thrash metal band that's blander and less inspired than Testament is Slayer.

And maybe Exodus after Tempo Of The Damned.

At 7/4/10 10:49 AM, Bahamut wrote: Maybe The New Order is better?

It is better, but still nothing to write home about.

At 7/4/10 06:08 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: Cannibal Corpse

I lol'd.

Worst death metal band ever.

Decapitated

I still don't get why they're on summer slaughter tour with Decrepit Birth, Animals As Leaders, Vital Remains and a fuckload of shittie bands.

The Faceless

Wait, what? Aren't they like metalcore or deathcore?

Led Zeppelin kicks ass, no doubt, but as it's already been proven, they're not metal. They did influence metal a fair bit, but they're not metal themselves. They're rock.

At 7/4/10 06:34 PM, AniMetal wrote: I still don't get why they're on summer slaughter tour with Decrepit Birth, Animals As Leaders, Vital Remains and a fuckload of shittie bands.

Are you implying that Animals as Leaders and Vital Remains are shitty?

Had a nice weekend at a metal festival. Megadeth played half of Rust in peace.. Turmion kätilöt is a great live band. Their frontman says/does some hilarious shit inbetween and during songs. They got a guy on stage, made him kneel down, and whipped him with the microphone cord, then gave him some booze. I wish all bands had more interesting live performances.
The bassist/vocalist of Armed for Apocalypse came up to me and said "Good looking t-shirt man, that's badass", which was quite cool.

At 7/4/10 07:15 PM, SomaGuye wrote:

At 7/4/10 06:34 PM, AniMetal wrote: I still don't get why they're on summer slaughter tour with Decrepit Birth, Animals As Leaders, Vital Remains and a fuckload of shittie bands.

Are you implying that Animals as Leaders and Vital Remains are shitty?

OH GOD NO.

I was saying that those four bands(Decapitated, Decrepit Birth, Animals As Leader, Vital Remains) are the only good bands on summer slaughter this year. The rest of the lineup is shit.

At 7/4/10 08:33 PM, AniMetal wrote:

I was saying that those four bands(Decapitated, Decrepit Birth, Animals As Leader, Vital Remains) are the only good bands on summer slaughter this year. The rest of the lineup is shit.

Talking about them. I heard Animals As Leaders is a great band :)
I will try to get my hand on their album :)

At 7/4/10 03:03 PM, D3NTATUS wrote:

At 7/4/10 02:45 PM, TheSporkLord wrote: Metal archives is filled with nothing but those " tr00 " metalheads. But please tell me musically how Led Zeppelin isn't heavy metal.

okeydokey (while metal archives is filled with elitists, it's also the closest thing we'll ever have to a legitimate archive of real metal bands)

It also said Black sabbath and deep purple even though they were all heavily influenced by blues.

they're blues rock

seriously, how many times do we have to say it? they're not metal in the same way that AC/DC aren't metal; they're hard rock or blues rock. Sometimes even bordering on folk rock, like with Stairway to Heaven and Battle of Evermore.

This is "Rock and Roll" by Led Zeppelin. Note how they use a blues chord progression (I-IV-V).

Using an extremely common chord progression does not make you a blues band.

Here's "Whole Lotta Love." Again, this is rock. This isn't metal. It's heavy, sure, but it doesn't sound metal. They use the blues scale extensively in this song.

Doesn't sound metal? Please how do you sound metal?

Compare Led Zeppelin to their metal contemporaries; Black Sabbath? Metal. Judas Priest? Metal. Led Zeppelin? Not metal. They sound different, and I don't understand how anyone could consider Led Zeppelin to be metal.

Black Dog. Extensive use of the blues scale.

Black sabbath and deep purple.

Now here's "War Pigs," by Black Sabbath. Here a difference? Yes. You do. The difference is that there's very little blues influence in their sound, because unlike Zep, Sabbath are metal. This could have been written ten years ago and it would still be metal.

Another major difference between metal and Zeppelin is the use of the augmented fourth/diminished fifth (tritone). It's dissonant, and metal uses it extensively. Zeppelin, however, doesn't. Also, downtuned guitars. Led Zeppelin never did any of that.

yeah they did, Jimmy Page was always experimenting with down tuned guitar, hence kashmir.

Is death heavy metal? is Mayhem heavy metal? Yes. Because the music they played was heavy sounding. It doesn't matter whether you play blues or not. Led Zeppelin fits perfectly into heavy metal.

At 7/4/10 08:43 AM, Dalnaki wrote:

At 7/3/10 06:20 PM, Nev wrote: When in fact you don't get more Brutal than Carcass :).

Carcass is grindcore. It's pretty much a world away from DM, even though there are similarities.

Hahaha, you havn't listened to them properly :D.

Carcass are incredibly brutal like Nev said. Up until Heartwork.

Unless you're talking about Heartwork, if so, you're probably gay.

Nev, gay?

If you like Mastodon, you'll like Baroness. I don't like Mastodon. Infact, I'm leaning towards dislike.

Crack the Skye is a great album.

At 7/4/10 05:26 PM, Centurion-Ryan wrote: Are we seriously arguing about this?

Duff is. We're laughing.

At 7/4/10 11:25 PM, greensucksbluerules wrote:

At 7/4/10 06:34 PM, AniMetal wrote: The only thrash metal band that's blander and less inspired than Testament is Slayer.

Still haven't listened to Hell Awaits, have you?

They suck now. Only were good in the 80's. Suffered stupid fuckhead American syndrome and suck worse than ever now.

No, they're technical death metal.

Very modern tech death.

Old school is where I feel most at home with death metal.

Gorguts are fucking brutal.

At 7/4/10 11:25 PM, TheSporkLord wrote: It also said Black sabbath and deep purple even though they were all heavily influenced by blues.

The difference between Black Sabbath and Zeppelin is that the first two are metal and the latter is blues rock hurr durr

Deep Purple is sort of borderline in my book, but they deserve to be in the archives before zeppelin do

Using an extremely common chord progression does not make you a blues band.

Yeah, but playing the 12-bar blues makes you pretty damn influenced by the blues.

Doesn't sound metal? Please how do you sound metal?

By not sounding like blues rock.

Black sabbath and deep purple.

Far less blues scale than zeppelin.

yeah they did, Jimmy Page was always experimenting with down tuned guitar, hence kashmir.

kashmir also happens to be one of the least metal and least guitar-central songs they have, so i'm not sure what point you're trying to make here

Is death heavy metal? is Mayhem heavy metal? Yes. Because the music they played was heavy sounding. It doesn't matter whether you play blues or not. Led Zeppelin fits perfectly into heavy metal.

Ah, I see your problem. You're one of those guys who thinks that everything heavy is metal. Not everything heavy is metal. Not everything metal is heavy. Heavy doesn't dictate whether it's metal or not. Swans are probably the heaviest band I've ever listened to, and they're not metal at all. A lot of industrial bands are heavy, but they're not metal. Metal is a distinct genre with more to it than heaviness. Maybe you need a history lesson. Metal was born when blues rock bands dropped their blues influence and kept the heavy.

• 

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  by PenisClown

  YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAH

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Hey guys, listen to this.

Composed, performed, recorded and engineered by me.

Well, except for that bong hit at the beginning. That was performed by Mr. Huggy Bear.

My thoughts on Led Zeppelin and metal: Yes, they are a strong influence on the genre but in no way I see them as heavy metal. To me, they are hard rock/blues rock.

At 7/4/10 06:34 PM, AniMetal wrote:

At 7/4/10 10:49 AM, Bahamut wrote: Maybe The New Order is better?

It is better, but still nothing to write home about.

Looks like I'll be putting it to one side for a very long time. I did listen to one song from the album but it's nothing for me to die for.