At 6/14/10 05:24 PM, Nev wrote:

When did I say anything of the sort? I didn't like growling and stuff at first, but its not because I didn't understand, its cause I thought it was shit. And I grew to like it not because I understood it any better, but because I merely started to enjoy the music.

So you grew to like it. Like I said, you evolved. One doesn't have to like the harshe vocals, but at least try to understand the music :P

I think the first band using some kind of growling I ever liked was Bullet for my Valentine, that was a big deal for me at the time...

At 6/14/10 04:48 PM, HeavenDuff wrote:

At 6/14/10 03:34 PM, TheSporkLord wrote:

You're wording it weird. Just because someone won't listen to or give those vocals a chance doesn't mean they're not intelligent. It just means they're close minded.

I didn't say intelligent. I said musically intelligent. Being open minded when listenning to music is a sign of a good musical intelligence. You can still be intelligent in a lot of other things, really.

Musical intelligence still does fit into this. It does not require any type of intelligence to listen to different metal genres, one just needs an open mind.

Honestly though, every time you say musical intelligence it makes you look like an idiot.

At 6/14/10 05:44 PM, TheUnwisePoet wrote: I think the first band using some kind of growling I ever liked was Bullet for my Valentine, that was a big deal for me at the time...

Haha! I thought Slipknot was badass :P

At 6/14/10 05:56 PM, HeavenDuff wrote:

At 6/14/10 05:44 PM, TheUnwisePoet wrote: I think the first band using some kind of growling I ever liked was Bullet for my Valentine, that was a big deal for me at the time...

Haha! I thought Slipknot was badass :P

Must've been Trivium for me.

I still do listen to Trivium and Slipknot occasionally. Trivium is made up of decent musicians, and Slipknot, while not metal, aren't really all that bad.

At 6/14/10 05:46 PM, TheSporkLord wrote:

Honestly though, every time you say musical intelligence it makes you look like an idiot.

I didn't fucking make up that shit. Go read about the different kind of intelligence psychologists talk about. Go read about the work of Dr. Howard Gardner. Now say I look like and idiot.

How do you define intelligence anyway? I, for myself think that having an open-mind is a great sign of intelligence. If you think these two things are not linked in anyway and that you can proove it. Fine. But otherwise, don't say I'm looking like an idiot.

STFU guys. You just don't have the musical intelligence to understand that harsh vocals are too deep for you. I've evolved past the need for mundane, poppy vocals in the style of Iron Maiden and Paramore. It takes a real, true man, and an intelligent one at that, not some Neanderthal doped up on steroids and testosterone to understand why DM/BM/TM/anything harsh is great. It's because it's THE HIGHEST EVOLUTION OF MUSICAL INTELLIGENCE.

LOUD NOISES

What the heck is "musical intelligence" anyway?

Grave Digger and Running Wild are totally both speed metal.

And that talk of "musical intelligence" is kind of, uh...bullshitty.

At 6/11/10 08:38 PM, Zodir wrote: So...on the hopes of changing the subject, have any of you guys heard of Mekong Delta? They're a pretty good technical thrash band. I like 'em. If you do check them out, listen to thier album Dances of Death. It's fantastic and I highly recommend it to any thrash fans.

They're good. They did a pretty cool version of Mussorgsky's Night on Bald Mountain.

At 6/12/10 04:38 PM, MaraquanWocky wrote: 1. Alice in Chains
2. Megadeth
3. Queensrÿche

yep, yep, yep

4. Godsmack

not metal

5. Slayer
6. Iron Maiden

both metal, yep

7. I'll take a risk and say Avenged Sevenfold

lol what no, not metal

8. Disturbed(god, I'll never make the cut)

also not metal

9. Takin' another huge risk and saying Blue Öyster Cult

gonna say no. rock.

10. I would say Stabbing Westward(DON'T COUNT IT),

no, dude.

but I'll say Soundgarden instead.

Well, I guess they're like grunge rock meets heavy metal or something. I never listened to them.

And if I don't make the cut, I would like to ask a few questions. Why don't you guys like Korn or Metallica?

I like Metallica. Korn and Nickelback aren't metal, so I don't see the relevance, but I liked Korn when I was 9 years old.

At 6/12/10 06:40 PM, DeIirium wrote: There's a progressive metal band called Nevermore, and they sound a lot like Queensryche.

I don't see how they sound a lot like them.

At 6/12/10 07:13 PM, TheSporkLord wrote: Also letiger if you're reading this then it's fine if you don't like it now but keep those kinds of feelings to yourself for now.

You're allowed to not like harsh vocals and let it be known.

Relax, guys. shhhh. Everything's gonna be okay.

At 6/13/10 02:37 AM, letiger wrote: I don't know if anyone's gonna hate me for this but,

Have you heard about the word?

Lol I knew exactly what this was going to link to. best cover ever.

You obviously can't read Dalnaki. So go shove your metal dildo in your ass. That's pretty much all your understand about metal anyway :)

At 6/14/10 06:02 PM, HeavenDuff wrote:

At 6/14/10 05:46 PM, TheSporkLord wrote:

Honestly though, every time you say musical intelligence it makes you look like an idiot.

I didn't fucking make up that shit. Go read about the different kind of intelligence psychologists talk about. Go read about the work of Dr. Howard Gardner. Now say I look like and idiot.

How do you define intelligence anyway? I, for myself think that having an open-mind is a great sign of intelligence. If you think these two things are not linked in anyway and that you can proove it. Fine. But otherwise, don't say I'm looking like an idiot.

"especially when you consider that tone of voice is not included in the province of the musical intelligence. "

Blah

In terms of vocals the only kind of education is singing in key or two people singing in harmony. How high or low you sing does not require musical intelligence to understand.

At 6/14/10 06:27 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: You obviously can't read Dalnaki. So go shove your metal dildo in your ass. That's pretty much all your understand about metal anyway :)

It's not that I can't read, it's just that I'm not going to take a guy who sounds like a Pitchfork reviewer throwing around trendy legit sounding words that are actually bullshit to disguise the fact that he knows nothing.

Ok. So if it's not called Musical Intelligence. How should we call it?

I was referring to the fact that some people, like me, have grown to appreciate music better. When I first listenned to Death Metal I didn't like it and made a judgemental statement about this genre, claiming it was random noise with a guy puking in a microphone. I then learned to listen to it, properly. In that way, I got better at listenning to music. Let's not call it Musical Intelligence. You are right, that is not the proper word for it.

But when I was talking about these Melodic Metal fans, who never get to appreciate anything else in Metal. I was not talking about those who listenned and didn't like it. Cause there is obviously two different type of Melodic Metal fans. The close-minded ones, who listenned to very little metal with harsh vocals and there are those who really just don't like the most agressive genres of metal and like the clean vocals better for different reasons. Like AniMetal said, he always was more into Power Metal and the such, not because he was close-minded, but because that was just what he liked the most. But there is a lot of people, who simply do not want to try and listen to it. They don't try to understand the music and how the vocals are coherent in the music. Nev said it's irrelevant. But I'm pretty sure I did start liking growls when I understood that they fit perfectly with the music. So when you understand that it's coherent with the music, then you can start liking it. Like I said earlier, thrash metal vocals really are not my type, but I'm slowly getting into Thrash Metal, and I'm starting to like these vocals.

There are exceptions. I'm not saying each and every single vocalist is doing a good job. Sometimes there will be bad vocalists, guys who fuck your brains with their vocals, but saying a whole type of vocals is innapropriate, is far from saying "this guy doesn't know how to sing".

I get what you mean. I too had the same misconceptions about DM and the like before I started listening to it. "It's just noise." or "Talentless hacks that are just like Anal Cunt making noise and pretending it's music."
Sadly, this view is far too common, and most never outgrow it. It doesn't bother me much, I'd rather not discuss music with people who are easily entertained by mindless pop songs that only have a manufactured dancy beat going for them.

At 6/14/10 06:49 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: Ok. So if it's not called Musical Intelligence. How should we call it?

I was referring to the fact that some people, like me, have grown to appreciate music better. When I first listenned to Death Metal I didn't like it and made a judgemental statement about this genre, claiming it was random noise with a guy puking in a microphone. I then learned to listen to it, properly. In that way, I got better at listenning to music. Let's not call it Musical Intelligence. You are right, that is not the proper word for it.

But when I was talking about these Melodic Metal fans, who never get to appreciate anything else in Metal. I was not talking about those who listenned and didn't like it. Cause there is obviously two different type of Melodic Metal fans. The close-minded ones, who listenned to very little metal with harsh vocals and there are those who really just don't like the most agressive genres of metal and like the clean vocals better for different reasons. Like AniMetal said, he always was more into Power Metal and the such, not because he was close-minded, but because that was just what he liked the most. But there is a lot of people, who simply do not want to try and listen to it. They don't try to understand the music and how the vocals are coherent in the music. Nev said it's irrelevant. But I'm pretty sure I did start liking growls when I understood that they fit perfectly with the music. So when you understand that it's coherent with the music, then you can start liking it. Like I said earlier, thrash metal vocals really are not my type, but I'm slowly getting into Thrash Metal, and I'm starting to like these vocals.

There are exceptions. I'm not saying each and every single vocalist is doing a good job. Sometimes there will be bad vocalists, guys who fuck your brains with their vocals, but saying a whole type of vocals is innapropriate, is far from saying "this guy doesn't know how to sing".

I completely agree with you here. In fact most of the time I have agreed with you in the argument. I agree with you that open-mindedness is a big part of intelligence, and you should be open-minded when it comes to music. It's just when you say "musical intelligence" it comes across bad. I (think) I know what you're trying to say, but just when you say "musical intelligence," I don't think it comes across the way you are trying for it to come across. So let's rename it something else and avoid extending this argument more.

Duff - you've FINALLY made your point clear and I agree with you now.

Earlier I thought you were saying people who couldn't appreciate death metal vocals have no taste in music and I was like "wait what?"

Also i'd just like to say: Cannibal Corpse and Deathcore are the PURE reasons it took me so long to get into harsh vocal metal.

Seriously, in 2005 or so I was into a ton of power metal and metalcore and wanted to get more 'brutal' so I tried getting into CC and deathcore.

Cannibal Corpse and the five or six deathcore bands I checked out turned me off all harsh vocal bands for years.

So rather than blaming peoples simple mindness we should blame Cannibal Corpse for being so suckage and popular.

Also i'm really getting into Fates Warning's first five albums! Anyone who is a fan of stuff like Iron Maiden, Dream Theater, Symphony X or traditional metal should really check it out.

Know what I like? Coconut shrimp. I totally typed shirmp instead of shrimp, though.

At 6/14/10 06:49 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: But there is a lot of people, who simply do not want to try and listen to it. They don't try to understand the music and how the vocals are coherent in the music.

Thats not how I got into Death Metal, whether its the case for others I don't know. But I get into any type of music by hearing one song and maybe one bit in that one song will stick in my head and I'll start to enjoy the music in general. Kinetic by Arcturus got me into Avant-Garde Metal for example. But Kinetic didn't make me understand the music, I just got a taste for that sound and I enjoyed hearing it.

I didn't use the right words. My bad. Musical Intelligence really isn't what I was talking about.

I also have to admit this made me laugh quite a bit. That thing you said about Cannibal Corpse, AniMetal. They were also one of the biggest reason it took me so long to get into Death Metal.

Being a big Death Metal fan today, I'm still wondering why a lot of Death Metal bands have gore, mutilation, murder, butchery and rape as their favorite lyrical themes. Today, that is still keeping me away from good bands. Two of my favorite Death Metal bands are kind of ruinning their image with all the gore and shit lyrics. Bands like Gorod (ex Goregasm) and Blood Red Throne. These bands have very talented musicians and songwritters. They write killer riffs, they write very good technical leads and badass rhythm riffs, have amazing song structures... but they add random chainsaw noises and sounds of people getting tortured in their music. I have nothing against dark lyrical subjects or songs about evil shit. But these guys tend to fall into the stereotypical image of Death Metal. The image that makes us look like angry teenage gore loving retards.

Some other bands like Origin and Benighted, also amongs my favorite Death Metal bands, have brutal and evil lyrical themes. Good thing is that they are doing it properly and not like angry teenagers.

Haha! I'm not talking about funny bitches like Cliteater though... these guys are amazing :P

Solution .45 - The Close Beyond

At 6/14/10 06:59 PM, AniMetal wrote: i'd just like to say: Cannibal Corpse and Deathcore are the PURE reasons it took me so long to get into harsh vocal metal.

You are exactly right. It wasn't deathcore for me, though, just Cannibal Corpse. They suck so fucking much. I seriously thought all DM was like that before I heard Death, Asphyx, Morbid Angel and Obituary.

Anyway, deathcore is bad. I know Mr. Duff is probably going to say how there's good bands in every genre, but I wish he'd stop being so optimistically naive. Deathcore as a whole is just bad and tasteless, and I say this objectively after having heard what it has to offer. Yes, I've even heard The Red Chord, Despised Icon, and pretty much all the other "good" deathcore bands. While they're not redundant chugga chugga bree bree breakdown shit, they're just as bad. Halfassed Suffocation clones, done in bad taste.

Anyway, before I stray from my point, deathcore isn't bad because it sucks. No. Hohohoho. The majority of mainstream music sucks too, but I'm sure all of you know that railing against it is pointless just as much as I do. After all, the masses can't stomach anything more complex than say... your typical AC/DC song. It's bad because it's the first impression people have about DM because it's more popular than DM and masquerades as DM. It also likes to go by grindcore too, but hey, that's a lesser problem, because god damn it, nobody likes grindcore anymore. Though it is a shame that people take those posers seriously, but whatever man. I'm not going to let gullible inbreds bother me.

I took psychology, Duff, and musical intelligence has nothing to do with having an open mind towards music. It means that you understand musical theory and have a natural proclivity towards music and musical learning; it doesn't mean that you can understand death grunts and black metal shrieks. People with musical intelligence can have terrible taste in music or they can have a highly developed sense of musical understanding and appreciation, just like anyone else.

Musical intelligence has to do with how well they can play, sing, or compose music, and they usually are sensitive to rhythm, tone, melody, chord relations, and all that. They also show sensitivity to auditory learning and stuff like that. Again, it has little to do with their taste in music. Some of the most musically intelligent people I know still hate harsh vocals and limit themselves to only a few genres.

Cause Despised Icon is supposed to be a good Deathcore band?
Whoever told you so... was lying :P

I like their drums though :)

I know Denta, we already went over this. I didn't use the right words.

At 6/14/10 07:28 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: Cause Despised Icon is supposed to be a good Deathcore band?
Whoever told you so... was lying :P
I like their drums though :)

I'd just like to say: I saw Beneath The Massacre and Neuraxis open for Despised Icon in 2009...

They were surprisingly really good live, legit.

And not only that, but towards the end of their set all the members jumped in the pit instruments and all. (minus the drummer)

Even though they were moshing while playing uber simple breakdowns, it was still awesome to watch.

That is all.

They still suck on recording.

At 6/14/10 07:36 PM, AniMetal wrote: (minus the drummer)

You got my fucking hopes up, ass.

At 6/14/10 07:36 PM, AniMetal wrote:

I'd just like to say: I saw Beneath The Massacre and Neuraxis open for Despised Icon in 2009...

I remember getting into a fight with a kid on last.fm
Well... not really a fight... He was getting pissed over the fact that I was saying that Beneath The Massacre were a deathcore band. Just so you guys know what this kid is like... I went through his recent activity on last.fm and all he did was troll on different deathcore bands pages and emo kid's pages saying how shit deathcore was and how terrible their musical tastes was. So the kid was just on a jihad against core music and really couldn't take the fact that one of his favorite bands was a deathcore band. If you have some spare time, just go read his shouts on my shoutbox on my page.

But dude... seriously... there is still a lot of people who cannot take the fact that they are deathcore. Because they sweep, hammer-on and do taping shit... they are METAL... right? :P

I remember some dumbass on Last.FM saying that Beneath the Massacre sounds just like Gorguts.

At 6/14/10 08:33 PM, greensucksbluerules wrote: I've said this before and I'll say this again- bands with long names are typically metalcore or deathcore. Same goes for bands who write songs with long titles.

What about... Blood Red Throne? Behold... The Arctopus? Deeds Of Flesh?
Anyway, that's kind of true :O
Bands with three words or four words in their name usually are core bands. Metal bands usually have one or two words in their name :O

If that's true, what genre is...nevermind. I was thinking of an album and not the band name. Still, what would the album In Abhorrence Dementia be considered as?

As far as deathcore goes, Despised Icon are decent. I could handle listening to them before another deathcore band.

And it's true about the name thing. 3 to 4 word band names are almost always core, or if they follow the "______ the ________" format. For this reason, if I ever start a joke metalcore band, the title will be Subvert the Paradigm.