At 6/12/10 06:20 PM, MaraquanWocky wrote: But can you recommend a few bands for me? PWEASE?
Seriously, I need more songs to listen to...

Considering you've mentioned Slayer, Megadeth and Queensrÿche, my recommendations for you to listen to more bands are:

Anthrax
Dream Theater
Kreator
Overkill
Sepultura (pre-Chaos AD)
Symphony X

Hopefully my recommendations will help you out.

Every once in a while we get a melodic metal douche fan who wants to join and tell us he doesn't like bands with screamers, growlers and the such. What's so fucking wrong with these guys? I once heard a mofo saying Agalloch should find another vocalist. I was so fucking pissed at this non-sense. If you can't understand how great his vocals are, you surely can't understand Agalloch. Same shit for Chuck's vocals in the band Death. He's a great vocalist... Don't tell the melo fan that he has to get "passed" the vocals. Cause these vocals are great. If you can't appreciate all kind of vocals, you better stick to pop music and pop metal, cause you really are no metal fan.

At 6/12/10 06:20 PM, MaraquanWocky wrote: At 6/12/10 06:14 PM,
OK, but I WILL try again in a month.
Guess I don't have to change my sig after all...
But can you recommend a few bands for me? PWEASE?
Seriously, I need more songs to listen to...

Also, try listening to Fozzy. You'd possibly love them.

There's a progressive metal band called Nevermore, and they sound a lot like Queensryche.

At 6/12/10 06:40 PM, DeIirium wrote: There's a progressive metal band called Nevermore, and they sound a lot like Queensryche.

Really? I haven't really bothered with Nevermore all this time. The only band I know that sounds very much alike to Queensrÿche is post-No Exit Fates Warning.

I wanted something all around metal...except for glam. GLAM FUCKING SUCKS.
No offense to anyone who likes it.
But thanks for the suggestions. I'll try 'em.
See ya in July!

At 6/12/10 12:50 PM, MudkipsPiano wrote: Hey guys, what are your current top 3 favorite albums? In order:

Tegan and Sara - Sainthood

Slint - Spiderland

Neurosis - Eye of Every Storm

You didn't say they had to be metal.

At 6/12/10 06:38 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: Every once in a while we get a melodic metal douche fan who wants to join and tell us he doesn't like bands with screamers, growlers and the such. What's so fucking wrong with these guys? I once heard a mofo saying Agalloch should find another vocalist. I was so fucking pissed at this non-sense. If you can't understand how great his vocals are, you surely can't understand Agalloch. Same shit for Chuck's vocals in the band Death. He's a great vocalist... Don't tell the melo fan that he has to get "passed" the vocals. Cause these vocals are great. If you can't appreciate all kind of vocals, you better stick to pop music and pop metal, cause you really are no metal fan.

Hey man I used to be one of those guys. I always went around mouthing off about how death metal is incoherent screaming. And now I love death metal. Just give it some time.

Also letiger if you're reading this then it's fine if you don't like it now but keep those kinds of feelings to yourself for now.

At 6/12/10 07:13 PM, TheSporkLord wrote:

Hey man I used to be one of those guys. I always went around mouthing off about how death metal is incoherent screaming. And now I love death metal. Just give it some time.

Also letiger if you're reading this then it's fine if you don't like it now but keep those kinds of feelings to yourself for now.

IT'S GOD DAMN MR. BUBBLES BITCH!!!! I just had to type that!!

One of my favorite death metal songs.

At 6/12/10 07:13 PM, TheSporkLord wrote:

Hey man I used to be one of those guys. I always went around mouthing off about how death metal is incoherent screaming. And now I love death metal. Just give it some time.

Also letiger if you're reading this then it's fine if you don't like it now but keep those kinds of feelings to yourself for now.

I also was not a big fan of death metal. I also did post a few stupid comments like these in the past. The guys from the Hell may have been kind of rough with me in the past, but I think that you have to keep your mind open, and if you don't you will end up being a melodic metal douche. Well... I know I never was a "clean-vocals only" pussy... EVER!

Death Metal is my favorite metal genre now, I guess that keeping my mind opened really was a good idea.

Dark Tranquillity - Lost To Apathy

At 6/12/10 07:05 PM, SomaGuye wrote:

You didn't say they had to be metal.

It's sort of a given, given that its the Metal Hell.
I had to take it that way anyway otherwise my list would be entirely irrelevant :P.

And people can dislike harsh vocals all they like. Why should they have to keep such feelings silent? It's an opinion. And its an opinion I bet most of us have had. Tastes change and develop, its wrong that we could shun people who are still new to the extremities of the genre.

At 6/12/10 08:35 PM, Nev wrote:

At 6/12/10 07:05 PM, SomaGuye wrote:

You didn't say they had to be metal.

It's sort of a given, given that its the Metal Hell.
I had to take it that way anyway otherwise my list would be entirely irrelevant :P.

And people can dislike harsh vocals all they like. Why should they have to keep such feelings silent? It's an opinion. And its an opinion I bet most of us have had. Tastes change and develop, its wrong that we could shun people who are still new to the extremities of the genre.

I used to be one of those people too. I just grew out of that before I joined the Hell. I started liking death metal by listening to stuff like Kataklysm, Gojira, and Sepultura. It grew on my, and I just started liking it. Now 5 of my favorite bands are death metal bands.

At 6/12/10 08:35 PM, Nev wrote:

And people can dislike harsh vocals all they like. Why should they have to keep such feelings silent? It's an opinion. And its an opinion I bet most of us have had. Tastes change and develop, its wrong that we could shun people who are still new to the extremities of the genre.

There is a difference between someone who listen, understand these vocals and still do not like what they bring to music. And there is people who simply are limited in their understanding of music. You can't just say that everybody is on the same level when it comes to listenning to music. Some people just do not have the musical intelligence. And I will stick to this, even if you think this is just an opinion, there is more sophisticated music, with more work, more research and deeper meaning. Great creativity and unique ambiences and feelings.

I don't say that you have to like it, but complainning about it, especially if you can't give a good reason why you think it's incoherent with the music, is just showing you don't have much intelligence when it comes to music. I'm not a big fan of... let's say opera... Maybe I don't like these kind of vocals. Saying that Luciano Pavarotti's vocals are killing the music would be kind of silly...

There is a reason why we use a particular kind of vocals in a specific song or a specific genre. Don't like it? Fine. Saying it's bad? You better have a good explanation...

Well, can we say it's bad to us?

At 6/12/10 09:00 PM, letiger wrote: Well, can we say it's bad to us?

Btw, I didn't say you were dumb. I was just saying there is people like this. Sorry if you thought I was trying to insult you. Like I said... keep an open mind :P I can't judge your musical intelligence by reading three of your posts :P

Oh, it's probably not that high. In some of the songs that I don't like, everything about them is great but the singing, which I would consider to be a big part of the song. What would W.A.S.P be considered as? I woudn't think metal; I'm talking about the Babylon album.

At 6/12/10 12:50 PM, MudkipsPiano wrote: Hey guys, what are your current top 3 favorite albums? In order:

1. Chaosphere - Meshuggah

2. Angelus Exuro Pro Eternus - Dark Funeral

3. Severance - Daysend

Listen to some motherfucking Dream Death if you want DM without the gutturals.

At 6/12/10 11:10 PM, Dalnaki wrote: Listen to some motherfucking Dream Death if you want DM without the gutturals.

Shit, linked the wrong song. I meant to link this one. Listen to it. It's so fucking awesome. I shouldn't even be sharing this band because you guys probably don't even know doom/death is.

At 6/12/10 09:11 PM, letiger wrote: What would W.A.S.P be considered as? I woudn't think metal; I'm talking about the Babylon album.

I'd go with Heavy Metal and Hard Rock... Metal Archives say they are Traditional Heavy Metal/Hard Rock. So I guess that might be what they are :O

At 6/12/10 11:12 PM, Dalnaki wrote:

At 6/12/10 11:10 PM, Dalnaki wrote: Listen to some motherfucking Dream Death if you want DM without the gutturals.

Shit, linked the wrong song. I meant to link this one. Listen to it. It's so fucking awesome. I shouldn't even be sharing this band because you guys probably don't even know doom/death is.

Pretty awesome. I don't mind the growling and all in DM, but I prefer (when I can find them) bands that don't use growls and all.

At 6/13/10 01:09 AM, SpeedMetalSandwich wrote:

Pretty awesome. I don't mind the growling and all in DM, but I prefer (when I can find them) bands that don't use growls and all.

The band Dalnaki was talking about... Dream Death... is not really a Death Metal band. I would say Death/Thrash from what I've heard of them. And Metal Archives says they are Doom/Death/Thrash Metal.
So whatever the fuck that is. I can't really consider them as a Death Metal band. And listenning to the two tracks he linked from YouTube... I really think it would be better if the guy would growl. It's not bad music. But there is just something about these thrashy vocals that annoy the shit out of me. I don't know exactly why... but these vocals are just making my ears bleed. They just sound dirty and it always sounds like the guy can't catch his breath. They sound kind of weak to me. I don't know how to express myself properly lol... I feel there is a lack of personnality or maybe... a lack of uniqueness in these vocals. Seems like a lot of vocalists in Thrash Metal and in Death/Thrash use that kind of vocals. They just sound all the same to me. Anybody feels like this two? Or am I the one who's wrong? :O

Illnath - Cast Into Fields Of Evil Pleasure

At 6/12/10 08:53 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: There is a reason why we use a particular kind of vocals in a specific song or a specific genre. Don't like it? Fine. Saying it's bad? You better have a good explanation...

Because harsh vocals are generally unpleasant sounding to virgin ears?

Seriously, one does not need a real reason for disliking harsh vocals.

Some people just can not tolerate them - so leave them be. It's NOTHING to do with "musical intelligence" which you are totally bullshitting about.

At 6/12/10 06:44 PM, Bahamut wrote:

At 6/12/10 06:40 PM, DeIirium wrote: There's a progressive metal band called Nevermore, and they sound a lot like Queensryche.

Really? I haven't really bothered with Nevermore all this time. The only band I know that sounds very much alike to Queensrÿche is post-No Exit Fates Warning.

1.) More like post-perfect symmetry fates warning.
2.) Nevermore is NOTHING like Queensryche...from what i've heard they're more like progressive thrash metal...
3.) So just check out Fates Warning. :D

At 6/12/10 06:38 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: pop metal, cause you really are no metal fan.

Yeah, you're dumb.

Metal is NOT about the vocals - at all.

In fact I hate a LOT of harsh vocals while still loving most bands.

But if I had to chose who was more metal between say symphony x and some black metal band i'd honestly chose symphony x.

Just cause a band isn't br00tal or kvlt enough due to their lack of harsh vocals doesn't mean they aren't tr00.

Also, just because someone dislikes a vocal style does not mean they should stick to pop.

If I had a dime for how many metalheads i've met who HATE falsetto and/or operatic vocals despite how OBJECTIVELY good they are I would be rich.

In the same sense, their are plenty MORE people whom dislike harsh vocals as well and you can't hold it against them.

In fact - I was into clean vocal metal since 2002. I didn't start getting into harsh vocal metal in late 2007/early 2008.

At 6/12/10 06:36 PM, Bahamut wrote: Hopefully my recommendations will help you out.

With the exceptions of dream theater and overkill....what horribly random recommendations.

What WOULD have been good is recommending traditional metal bands like Lizzy Borden since he likes glam and whatnot and recommending melodeath metal like Arch Enemy and whatnot since he likes stuff like A7X. You can't bridge from metalcore to thrash - it's more like metalcore to melodeath to death to old school death to thrash....

At 6/12/10 07:07 AM, letiger wrote: And there's your problem. Don't hate. Don't hate me for not hearing anything before Violent revolution. Besides, I've only started listening to them for a short while now. Just let me try anything before that album in a minute.

Go listen to the albums "extreme Aggressions" and "Coma Of Souls".

At 6/12/10 12:57 PM, GoryBlizzard wrote: 2. Beyond Twilight - Section X

I love you for knowing who these guys are like.

Like legit, I wanna fuck you in the ass now for that.

I don't know if anyone's gonna hate me for this but,

Have you heard about the word?

At 6/13/10 02:12 AM, AniMetal wrote:

Some people just can not tolerate them - so leave them be. It's NOTHING to do with "musical intelligence" which you are totally bullshitting about.

No I'm not bullshitting. And that's always what you say when you want to bitch about something. What I meant is that you can't say that the vocals are killing the music only because they are harsh vocals. Cause then you would just fail to understand the whole genre. You can say for example "this guy's vocals are killing the music."

Metal is NOT about the vocals - at all.

HAHAHA! You want to say I'm stupid and you say silly shit like this? Every single element of what makes a band is important in the music. A lot of metal bands would be nothing without the vocals. I'll throw a few names in just so you understand how fucking wrong you are. Bruce Dickinson, Christiand Alvestam, Russel Allen, Allen Lande, Tony Kako, Julien Truchan. Now should I keep on going? What you said is a total non-sense.

In fact I hate a LOT of harsh vocals while still loving most bands.

All fine with me...

But if I had to chose who was more metal between say symphony x and some black metal band i'd honestly chose symphony x.

How do you calculate metalness? I really want to know.

Just cause a band isn't br00tal or kvlt enough due to their lack of harsh vocals doesn't mean they aren't tr00.

When did I ever say that vocals is what makes a band metal or not?

Also, just because someone dislikes a vocal style does not mean they should stick to pop.

Not what I said either...

If I had a dime for how many metalheads i've met who HATE falsetto and/or operatic vocals despite how OBJECTIVELY good they are I would be rich.

You can dislike it... But I think that if you can't respect the genre, you are the one loosing the game. If you can't understand that these vocals can be good in so many ways, you obviously are the one loosing.

In the same sense, their are plenty MORE people whom dislike harsh vocals as well and you can't hold it against them.

I totally agree on this.

In fact - I was into clean vocal metal since 2002. I didn't start getting into harsh vocal metal in late 2007/early 2008.

And now what? That's definitely a plus. I never said you should like harsh vocals, growls, screams and all these kind of vocals the first time you ever listenned to them.

These is a little missunderstanding here. I never ever said that clean vocals were un-metal. But you are aware of what I'm going to say. More than 90% of what is done on the metal scene includes some kind of harsh vocals, growls or screams. If you close your mind to all of them, you are keeping yourself from getting into a lot of awesome metal :)
Do you understand what I mean when I say that Agalloch just wouldn't be the same without their harsh vocals? I hope you do. Now what I said is that a guy told me they should change their vocalist. That is totally wrong. It's just like if you were telling me that Pavarotti's vocals are ruinning his music. That is totally untrue...

Now tell me, would Death Metal sound the same without the gutturals? I really don't think so. Anyway. There was a little confusion right there. I love clean vocals. Dream Theater, Symphony X, Sonata Arctica and all these awesome bands :)

At 6/12/10 07:42 PM, smeagol1 wrote: One of my favorite death metal songs.

Why haven't I picked up Altars of Madness yet? :(

At 6/12/10 09:11 PM, letiger wrote: What would W.A.S.P be considered as? I woudn't think metal; I'm talking about the Babylon album.

Listening to The Headless Children tells me that they're metal enough to be accepted around here. Even Goatchrist the founder of the Metal Hell likes them and high recommended that album.

At 6/13/10 02:12 AM, AniMetal wrote:

At 6/12/10 06:44 PM, Bahamut wrote:

At 6/12/10 06:40 PM, DeIirium wrote: There's a progressive metal band called Nevermore, and they sound a lot like Queensryche.

Really? I haven't really bothered with Nevermore all this time. The only band I know that sounds very much alike to Queensrÿche is post-No Exit Fates Warning.

1.) More like post-perfect symmetry fates warning.

Well, I've yet to listen to Perfect Symmetry and I assumed that's when they changed their style. I could listen to it soon but if I'm to pick up another Fates Warning album anytime soon, it'll be The Spectre Within.

2.) Nevermore is NOTHING like Queensryche...from what i've heard they're more like progressive thrash metal...

Yeah, I heard they had thrash metal elements so the comparison with Queensrÿche sounded very unusual.

3.) So just check out Fates Warning. :D

Been there, done that.

At 6/12/10 06:36 PM, Bahamut wrote: Hopefully my recommendations will help you out.

With the exceptions of dream theater and overkill....what horribly random recommendations.

Horribly? RANDOM?! What is wrong with you? How is Anthrax random? He mentioned Megadeth and Slayer so it only made sense to recommend Anthrax. Kreator are another key band in thrash metal and Sepultura have shown notability with the thrash era and it is worth checking out.

As for myself mentioning prog metal bands, I went with Symphony X as Opeth I wouldn't recommend just yet and Fates Warning are really for those who are wanting to look further in the genre.

At 6/13/10 02:53 AM, HeavenDuff wrote: What I meant is that you can't say that the vocals are killing the music only because they are harsh vocals. Cause then you would just fail to understand the whole genre.

....no.

Seriously, vocals have LITTLE to do with generalization.

If you're getting out the vocals from death metal bands as the key and main point, which you must do if it's so important in order to "appreciate" the genre, then apparently you really DON'T understand death metal at all.

A lot of metal bands would be nothing without the vocals.

Bruce Dickinson,

lol Iron Maiden.

Christiand Alvestam,

I don't know or give a shit who this person is.

Russel Allen,

WHAT? Cause you know.

Symphony X doesn't have a totally technical and amazing: 1.) Guitarist, 2.) keyboardist/pianoman and 3.) Bassist.

(while I do admit their drummer didn't start getting good till recently)

Allen Lande,

You obviously don't know what you're talking about.

For one: Allen Lande isn't a name of a vocalist, it's the collaboration of two vocalists.
For two: It isn't popular, at all. Almost all fans of those two vocalists HATE that band due to the fact it ONLY focuses on the vocals and nothing else.
For three: It's a SIDE PROJECT.

Tony Kako,

Old sonata Arctica, their first two albums are great and their 3rd + 4th album are really good.

The guitars and the keyboards played a HUGE part.

Why do you think after silence when SA got a different keyboardist that their next album went from great to good?

Why do you think after reckoning night when Jani(guitar) left the band that their next two albums were shit?

While SA is one of few bands that the vocals DID help create the popularity of, it's only cause his vocals fit in PERFECTLY with the rest of the music. Listen to this, it's an epica song with tony on guest vocals.

It's a PERFECT example of how tony's vocals don't fit in anything other than SA's first four albums. (even on unia his vocals were totally out of place.)

Julien Truchan.

Don't know who this is either.

So chances are, but if they're "popular" he's from a band or two I already know due to NOT the vocals.

Now should I keep on going? What you said is a total non-sense.

In fact I hate a LOT of harsh vocals while still loving most bands.

All fine with me...

But if I had to chose who was more metal between say symphony x and some black metal band i'd honestly chose symphony x.

How do you calculate metalness? I really want to know.

In a sense, I think it's more of "True" metal thing cause like metal STARTED off as clean vocals, clean guitars, etc, etc.

So death metal and whatnot is way further away from the original roots than say, power metal.

It's not a matter of how much more or less metal a band is, more of how much you can hear the roots or not. Ya know?

Just cause a band isn't br00tal or kvlt enough due to their lack of harsh vocals doesn't mean they aren't tr00.

When did I ever say that vocals is what makes a band metal or not?

You didn't say it's what makes a band or not, you said failing appreciating the vocals is failing to understand the ENTIRE FUCKING GENRE.

Where did you pull that out of your ass, anyway?

Hell, even in power metal you don't need to have falsetto vocals.

If I had a dime for how many metalheads i've met who HATE falsetto and/or operatic vocals despite how OBJECTIVELY good they are I would be rich.

You can dislike it... But I think that if you can't respect the genre, you are the one loosing the game. If you can't understand that these vocals can be good in so many ways, you obviously are the one loosing.

lol.

"I can't understand or appreciate these vocals, I guess that leaves me to appreciate other things like the instrumental, lyrics and atmosphere instead"
"DUDE, you lose man. That sucks BALLS - you just can't appreciate the music entirely. Oh well, sucks for you. Hur hur"

Tell me how that makes sense.

So in my opinion turning off a band because you dislike the vocals ONLY is not a worthy excuse to stop listening to the band completely - HOWEVER, if someone dislikes the vocals and STILL LISTENS to them for other reasons that means they appreciate the music MORE than the average joe and so just leave them the fuck alone.

In the same sense, their are plenty MORE people whom dislike harsh vocals as well and you can't hold it against them.

I totally agree on this.

Like, I had a 40 or so year old english teacher in 9th grade.

He was into EVERYTHING metal with clean vocals.

He likes almost all power, traditional, progressive, symphonic, thrash, stoner, doom, etc.

Throw a harsh vocalist in the band instead as the lead singer and he would refuse to listen to the band.

He always said it was because he's listened to so much metal to compensate for not listening to harsh vocal metal, so he just cuts it off entirely.

And you know what? That's HIS decision so I let him have it. Why? Because just because you dislike some vocals doesn't mean there's SHIT wrong with you.

I never ever said that clean vocals were un-metal. But you are aware of what I'm going to say. More than 90% of what is done on the metal scene includes some kind of harsh vocals, growls or screams. If you close your mind to all of them, you are keeping yourself from getting into a lot of awesome metal :)

I would agree with this.

Only I think 90% is a bit of an overexaggeration. Probably more like 60%. (there's a LOT of clean vocal metal bands, especially from the 80's and late 70's as well as in the power metal scene)

Do you understand what I mean when I say that Agalloch just wouldn't be the same without their harsh vocals? I hope you do. Now what I said is that a guy told me they should change their vocalist. That is totally wrong. It's just like if you were telling me that Pavarotti's vocals are ruinning his music. That is totally untrue...

I think just because the vocals are hard to get into for agalloch, it DOESN'T change the music quality at all and judging the entire band purely off vocals is a very shallow and unintelligible thing to decide.

That is also a huge reason I hate metal heads who refuse to listen to stuff like Epica and After Forever because they purely hate female vocals.

Now tell me, would Death Metal sound the same without the gutturals? I really don't think so. Anyway. There was a little confusion right there. I love clean vocals. Dream Theater, Symphony X, Sonata Arctica and all these awesome bands :)

Agreed - the point I was trying to make is that someone can HATE the vocalist of say Dream Theater, and still fucking love dream theater for the other things. THAT IS NOT A PROBLEM.

Someone can HATE the vocalist of say Symphony X and still refuse to listen to them for the other things. THAT IS A PROBLEM.

At 6/13/10 01:30 PM, AniMetal wrote:

At 6/13/10 02:53 AM, HeavenDuff wrote:

Seriously, vocals have LITTLE to do with generalization.

If you're getting out the vocals from death metal bands as the key and main point, which you must do if it's so important in order to "appreciate" the genre, then apparently you really DON'T understand death metal at all.

Ok, so now you are talking about genre classifications? Can't you make your point clear instead of just missunderstanding ever single thing I say. I never said Vocals were important for the genre classification. But the vocals really are important in the music. I couldn't imagine Symphony X without Russel Allen and couldn't imagine Iron Maiden without Bruce Dickinson.

No the vocals are not important when it comes to genre classification. But if you can't recognize what kind of vocals generaly goes with the genre, you are missunderstanding something about metal. If you can't get the gutturals, you better not listen to Death Metal, or stick to Old-School Death Metal. But even there, you are not going to get a lot of clean vocals. And if you do so, you are missing a lot of great metal.

Christiand Alvestam,

I don't know or give a shit who this person is.

Symphony X doesn't have a totally technical and amazing: 1.) Guitarist, 2.) keyboardist/pianoman and 3.) Bassist.

When did I ever fucking say that he was THE ONLY REASON why the band was so good. Man, do you even read what I write? Cause if not, I'm really wasting my time.

Allen Lande,

You obviously don't know what you're talking about.

For one: Allen Lande isn't a name of a vocalist, it's the collaboration of two vocalists.
For two: It isn't popular, at all. Almost all fans of those two vocalists HATE that band due to the fact it ONLY focuses on the vocals and nothing else.
For three: It's a SIDE PROJECT.

I really meatn Jorn Lande, but I was looking at their discography right before writting this down. You can't argue on a typo...

The guitars and the keyboards played a HUGE part.

AND WHEN DID I SAY THEY DIDN'T ?!?

While SA is one of few bands that the vocals DID help create the popularity of, it's only cause his vocals fit in PERFECTLY with the rest of the music. Listen to this, it's an epica song with tony on guest vocals.

I don't care about that shit popularity. These arguments are shit. What I said is that vocals are really fucking important in metal. Not for the genre classification or whatever. But if you don't care about the vocals and think they are un-important, you fail at understanding music. Cause in a great band, nothing is useless. Bands like Agalloch who have flawless albums should never ever fucking change a single note of a single instrument in any of their songs. INCLUDING THE VOCALS.

So chances are, but if they're "popular" he's from a band or two I already know due to NOT the vocals.

I'm a big Death Metal fan and I have to say that if the vocals are not doing it for me, chances are I won't ever get into this band. Truchan is the vocalist of Death Metal band, Benighted. Everything about this band is great. And without the vocals, it really wouldn't be the same. If the vocals are not good, even great musicianship is not going to save the band.

So death metal and whatnot is way further away from the original roots than say, power metal.

So you are claiming Power Metal is more metal than Death Metal?

It's not a matter of how much more or less metal a band is, more of how much you can hear the roots or not. Ya know?

A genre can evolve. The later genres really aren't less metal only because they don't sound like Black Sabbath.

You didn't say it's what makes a band or not, you said failing appreciating the vocals is failing to understand the ENTIRE FUCKING GENRE.

I said failing to understand why the vocals are coherent in the music is failing to understand the genre. You don't have to appreciate them. But you need to understand why they are fitting in the genre. Still, I think there is a difference between not liking the vocals of one guy, maybe cause you think he is not good at doing it. But saying GROWLS are shit vocals, is kind of stupid. Saying Growls really are not doing it for me is alright though.

"I can't understand or appreciate these vocals, I guess that leaves me to appreciate other things like the instrumental, lyrics and atmosphere instead"

Sucks for you...

Tell me how that makes sense.

That makes sense for me. I can't listen to a band if I don't think that every single musician is at least decent.

So in my opinion turning off a band because you dislike the vocals ONLY is not a worthy excuse to stop listening to the band completely - HOWEVER, if someone dislikes the vocals and STILL LISTENS to them for other reasons that means they appreciate the music MORE than the average joe and so just leave them the fuck alone.

I know you can do this. And I was obviously not talking about someone who is really into metal like you are.

He was into EVERYTHING metal with clean vocals.

He likes almost all power, traditional, progressive, symphonic, thrash, stoner, doom, etc.

I loled... There is barely any clean vocals in thrash, stoner and doom. If it's not harsh vocals, it's still not clean.

Throw a harsh vocalist in the band instead as the lead singer and he would refuse to listen to the band.

Douchebag

He always said it was because he's listened to so much metal to compensate for not listening to harsh vocal metal, so he just cuts it off entirely.

He's so metal :)

And you know what? That's HIS decision so I let him have it. Why? Because just because you dislike some vocals doesn't mean there's SHIT wrong with you.

Haha! If he cannot listen to these vocals at all, then he really has a limited musical intelligence. I know you will say I'm wrong. But dude, your teacher probably didn't know shit about Death Metal. And that is my friend... FUCKING SAD!

I would agree with this.

Only I think 90% is a bit of an overexaggeration. Probably more like 60%. (there's a LOT of clean vocal metal bands, especially from the 80's and late 70's as well as in the power metal scene)

Dunno man. Maybe not 90% but 60% is very low.

I think just because the vocals are hard to get into for agalloch, it DOESN'T change the music quality at all and judging the entire band purely off vocals is a very shallow and unintelligible thing to decide.

I think the guy who said so, really did like the band, but not the vocals. He's not dumb because he doesn't like Haughm's vocals. But ask yourself... Who can appreciate their music better? Him or me? Probably me, because I like EVERYTHING about the band.

That is also a huge reason I hate metal heads who refuse to listen to stuff like Epica and After Forever because they purely hate female vocals.

You really think that they do this only because they hate female vocals? If they do, they are suckers. But I do hate these bands because they are sell-outs and that they base their entire popularity on the sexy bitch. I don't have anything against women in metal. But why is it that most of them sing on the pop metal scene? Have like... 1000 pictures in their gallery, 2/3 of these pictures being pictures of the girl only or pictures of the band in the background with the girl in front. If you can find me a good female vocalist that is not in a pop metal band, I might like it.

Agreed - the point I was trying to make is that someone can HATE the vocalist of say Dream Theater, and still fucking love dream theater for the other things. THAT IS NOT A PROBLEM.

My question to you is... Can you really appreciate a band if there is something in their music that you simply cannot stand? Even if you like everything else about the band?

Someone can HATE the vocalist of say Symphony X and still refuse to listen to them for the other things. THAT IS A PROBLEM.

I would rape anyone who would said Russel Allen is not a good vocalist >:(

Btw AniMetal, I really don't think Grave Digger can be classified as Power Metal. At least not straight down Power Metal.

Also... Most awesome girl in Metal?
Sandrine of the band Gorod :)

Not one of these pop gothic sell out bands I was talking about earlier :P

Posts are getting ridiculously long so I'm not reading them, but saying someone is "musically unintelligent" - lol - because they dislike a style of singing is plain old unintelligent. Christ Duff, you make it sound like people who listen to Death Metal do so whilst sipping brandy and smoking very, very fine cigars. Hardly the case.

Extreme Metal isn't the be all and end all of the genre.

Aqualung - Strange and Beautiful (Aqualung)

At 6/13/10 02:43 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: Btw AniMetal, I really don't think Grave Digger can be classified as Power Metal. At least not straight down Power Metal.

Also... Most awesome girl in Metal?
Sandrine of the band Gorod :)

Not one of these pop gothic sell out bands I was talking about earlier :P

woah woah woah woah woah. There's a chick in that band? Well fuck me sideways.