At 3/20/09 08:51 PM, D3NTATUS wrote:At 3/20/09 08:14 PM, Nev wrote: Doesn't justify it.Well, nothing can justify murder.
Murder is a stupid act...I dont give a shit about murder...people dont disserve to be taken off the face of the planet...they should have to suffer through it like everyone else
Death is only the Beginning. Death is all that is real. Heliosohophism.
I got the following to add to my burn list.
Immortal- Battles in the North
Morbid Angel- Alters Of Madness
Lord Belial-The Black Curse (epic!!!!)
At 3/20/09 08:51 PM, D3NTATUS wrote: Every person is different, every "psycho" with a gun in a school hallway has a different reason for pulling the trigger
Aren't they normally just goths who are a little bit fat and listen to appaulling music :P.
They're people too, as cliché as it is to say so, and they've got reasons that can be understood.
Of course they're different, but I think the one thing that they all have in common is that they're weak. Not just in enduring the suffering but weak in their understand of humanity, ethics and morality and everything that makes humans a civil species.
Anywhoo, I understand the points you raised and maybe I was being a bit over the top in my generalisations.
But they're still dicks :).
At 3/20/09 08:59 PM, smeagol1 wrote: I got the following to add to my burn list.
Immortal- Battles in the North
Morbid Angel- Alters Of Madness
Lord Belial-The Black Curse (epic!!!!)
not much of an Immortal/Morbid Angel fan, but Lord Belial's new album is really good
Death is only the Beginning. Death is all that is real. Heliosohophism.
At 3/20/09 08:59 PM, smeagol1 wrote: Immortal- Battles in the North
Since hearing that album I've sang everything like Abbath :P.
At 3/20/09 09:01 PM, Nev wrote: But they're still dicks :).
Well yeah, anyone who's willing to kill someone is a dick.
So I just now found out about sirtom. What a fucking douche.
Really if your going to burn anything burn a fucking church! Not a pussy school thats over-rated anyways.
So yeah, he's going away to be thrown hole in the ground being some big fat black dude bitch for quite awhile now.
Dumbass.
At 3/20/09 09:09 PM, Nev wrote:At 3/20/09 08:59 PM, smeagol1 wrote: Immortal- Battles in the NorthSince hearing that album I've sang everything like Abbath :P.
meh...best immortal album was Sons of the Northern Darkness...all the others are mediocre at best
Death is only the Beginning. Death is all that is real. Heliosohophism.
At 3/20/09 09:13 PM, smeagol1 wrote: Really if your going to burn anything burn a fucking church! Not a pussy school thats over-rated anyways.
Man you ain't never been to pussy school if you think its overrated :P.
At 3/20/09 08:14 PM, Nev wrote:
At 3/20/09 07:11 PM, ElGhoulio wrote: What if you stood up for yourself and got beaten down even harder for it?I don't necessarily mean in a physical conflict type of way, thats just as pointless. I mean having a little bit of self-confidence and being able to take pedantic abuse in the knowledge that they're just dicks.
What if you simply have no regard for life of any kind, even your own?Then you're a dick. Admittedly a more fascinating dick, but that person would still be a massive prick if you knew them.
Who says you're a dick just because you kill people? It's only because you value human life. All of your arguments are based upon the your assumption that morals and shit are universal. They're not.
Also, who said that life is sacred? We kill insects at will, we kill animals like deer at will, what makes humans any different?We have a society that is based upon ethical and moral laws and not just instinct. We have a much greater understanding of suffering and we have conscious thought resulting in emotional sadness from such deaths.
Suffering is a human invention. Pain is universal, suffering is not.
And we're at the top of the food chain and we're evolved as being carnivores. If no human had ever killed and eaten an animal and if someone suddenly did it, then people would go mental.
That is not the case however.
If we'd grown as a society with murder being okay, such events as these wouldn't cause a stir. But again, not the case.
Society is overrated.
On that note, what about cannibals? Are they weak?What does that have to do with angsty teens?
Killing people.
What if the motivation for killing isn't revenge of any sort, just that they want to see the world crumble to dust?Are we quoting Batman now :P?
No, batman is quoting me.
If you kill ants who are eating your cake that you left on the counter due to forgetfulness, then you have no right to hate someone for killing humans en masse.Such a stupid point. In terms of wishy-washy 'Ooh we're all the same even ants are as significant as humans... oooh', yeah.
Humans are more advanced in so many ways. Ants don't feel and understand. They can't justify and assess. We can.
What an ego-centric point of view. Humans are no more advanced than any other species. We only say we are because that's how it looks from our point of view. When you look at the fact that humans have more inter-species killing than any other species, we're quite atavistic.
We're not necessarily better than other forms of life. But we are far more advanced.
Either you are against all killing (like I am) or you are for all killing, regardless of species. Me, I don't kill insects even anymore.This is just stupid man. Its psuedo-intellectual nonsense.
It's a buddhist principle, not pseudo intellectual nonsense.
In other words, if Sirtom[numbers] pisses you off and you are posting that here, chances are you are a hypocrite.Cause everything is one or the other.
What you're saying is like saying 'Oh you like football? Well you must support every team them because you like football. If you don't like every team then you hate every team and thus cannot like football.'
Drivel.
No, but saying that it's ok to kill, say, deer, and not humans is like saying it's ok to rape someone if the recipient is a man, not a woman.
Drivel.
You can't spell subtext without buttsex. | I control Psycryptik | Psycryptik controls your mind
Death is only the Beginning. Death is all that is real. Heliosohophism.
All in all, I don't understand where all this outrage is coming from. There's no such thing as innocent people. If your shit gets burned that's because you couldn't defend it. I'm not saying I support anarchy, I just believe human civilisation has enjoyed unchecked growth way too long. It kinda wish things were like they were back in, say, the greco-roman days, where although man strove for the pinnacle of knowledge, yet was limited by disease and natural disasters and shit like that. Utilising electricity has to be the greatest misstep in the history of the natural world, in that I'm convinced the infernal spawn of the industrial revolution will be the downfall of not earth, but mankind; we will utilise technology that we don't have the responsibility to use, and will use it against each other and wipe our whole species out in one fell swoop.
In that sense, Ted Kaczynski (sp?) was a true O.G.
You can't spell subtext without buttsex. | I control Psycryptik | Psycryptik controls your mind
At 3/20/09 09:29 PM, ElGhoulio wrote:
:... There's no such thing as innocent people ...
the most true statement I have ever heard
Death is only the Beginning. Death is all that is real. Heliosohophism.
Death is only the Beginning. Death is all that is real. Heliosohophism.
At 3/20/09 09:20 PM, ElGhoulio wrote: What an ego-centric point of view. Humans are no more advanced than any other species. We only say we are because that's how it looks from our point of view.
Well given that we're human I'd say its pretty relevant to us.
And we're the only species that thinks like we do and understands like we do.
It's a buddhist principle, not pseudo intellectual nonsense.
Well its stupid.
No, but saying that it's ok to kill, say, deer, and not humans is like saying it's ok to rape someone if the recipient is a man, not a woman.
Both men and women are human though, which adds the element of suffering and emotion.
If you're point was about the difference between raping deer or a human then it'd be the same. And if you raped a deer it wouldn't understand what was going on. Doesn't make it right, but its better than raping a human who'd suffer so much more.
Of course, I'd prefer it if neither human nor deer was raped :).
At 3/20/09 09:39 PM, Nev wrote:At 3/20/09 09:20 PM, ElGhoulio wrote: What an ego-centric point of view. Humans are no more advanced than any other species. We only say we are because that's how it looks from our point of view.Well given that we're human I'd say its pretty relevant to us.
In the point of view of God/satan/odin/whatever it isn't.
And we're the only species that thinks like we do and understands like we do.
No, we aren't.
It's a buddhist principle, not pseudo intellectual nonsense.Well its stupid.
That comment is stupid.
No, but saying that it's ok to kill, say, deer, and not humans is like saying it's ok to rape someone if the recipient is a man, not a woman.Both men and women are human though, which adds the element of suffering and emotion.
If you're point was about the difference between raping deer or a human then it'd be the same. And if you raped a deer it wouldn't understand what was going on. Doesn't make it right, but its better than raping a human who'd suffer so much more.
Believe it or not, other species understand what's going on. Brush up on your knowledge of evolutionary theory. Most primates understand what's going on, as do most mammals. They just can't communicate in a language we understand.
Of course, I'd prefer it if neither human nor deer was raped :).
As would I.
You can't spell subtext without buttsex. | I control Psycryptik | Psycryptik controls your mind
At 3/20/09 09:43 PM, ElGhoulio wrote: In the point of view of God/satan/odin/whatever it isn't.
We're none of them. We're humans. Ego-centric it may be, but thats the way it is because of what we are.
That comment is stupid.
There are degrees of things. Saying its all wrong or all right is ridiculous.
How the hell did we get to deer rape from all of this?
At 3/20/09 09:54 PM, Nev wrote:
How the hell did we get to deer rape from all of this?
You said that in an attempt to prove me wrong.
You can't spell subtext without buttsex. | I control Psycryptik | Psycryptik controls your mind
At 3/20/09 09:58 PM, ElGhoulio wrote: You said that in an attempt to prove me wrong.
In an attempt... pah.
Your point was irrelevant.
Death is only the Beginning. Death is all that is real. Heliosohophism.
When did this become the arguing the philosophic views that surround our life club? Well, considering how much this debate is flooding the hell, I figure I would throw in my two cents, completely ignoring previous posts and posts that will come after this one. So after this, I will not participate again.
What sirtom did/attempted was inherently selfish, assuming suicide would be the next step. Revenge, as many have put it, does nothing but start a fresh cycle of violence, to quote karma. Him getting revenge on those who pissed him off without trying to deal with it without resorting to violence. He might as well have told them to stop, but if you're going to do it in a sheepish manner, of course they'll ignore you. Learning to assert yourself in such a way as to garner respect yet not enough to strike fear is a key part of life. Because sirtom is only 16, I don't expect him to reach that level yet. However, his immaturity does not excuse his actions because he knew full well that burning down his school would not only hurt or kill others, but end up with his demise (jail, suicide, what have you.)
Sirtom's actions are not justifiable by any means. Sure, I've hurt things, but as a hunter. As a hunter who uses a bow, I abide by the ancient code of hunting established by the American Indians. This code, in short, teaches hunters to not only respect the hunt, but to respect the prey as a formidable foe and to worship the prey as thanksgiving. Now, I don't necessarily worship the deer I might kill, but I sure do appreciate it. I hunt for sport, but at least I have the decency to eat the animal for dinner and to use the bones for other unimportant things. Yes, I kill things, but in the way that nature had intended (well maybe not with a compound bow, but the general idea is there).
TLDR; Sirtom is selfish for thinking ending the lives of others will solve anything. Why do you think most gunmen in school shootings kill themselves afterward?
Here I am, bored with everything.
So I'm irrelevant for saying don't judge your fellow man? Nearly every religion/philosophy says that only gods shall judge.
Let's end this debate with this: what sirtom did was selfish, but we're all selfish. We are all evil, that's part of being in the metal HELL. It's just a matter of degrees.
On the subject of metal, Follow the Blind is Blind Guardian's best album, provided you listen to it at full blast. I can't drive listening to anything else.
You can't spell subtext without buttsex. | I control Psycryptik | Psycryptik controls your mind
At 3/20/09 10:31 PM, ElGhoulio wrote: On the subject of metal, Follow the Blind is Blind Guardian's best album, provided you listen to it at full blast. I can't drive listening to anything else.
Blind Guardian is mediocre at best
Death is only the Beginning. Death is all that is real. Heliosohophism.
At 3/20/09 10:31 PM, ElGhoulio wrote: On the subject of metal, Follow the Blind is Blind Guardian's best album, provided you listen to it at full blast. I can't drive listening to anything else.
I dunno if it's their best, because I only have Follow the Blind and Nightfall in Middle-Earth, but I fucking love Follow the Blind. I got it last summer when I was in San Francisco. Banish from Sanctuary and Valhalla are my favorite songs.
At 3/20/09 10:34 PM, burnoutfool wrote: Blind Guardian is mediocre at best
False.
At 3/20/09 10:31 PM, ElGhoulio wrote: So I'm irrelevant for saying don't judge your fellow man? Nearly every religion/philosophy says that only gods shall judge.
It was more the analogy between animal/human and human/human and killing for food being different to raping for joy (or whatever people get out of rape). Killing for killings sake, I agree... but I'm not sure what you were going for because I'm unaware whether or not people kill deer for sport.
I'm actually also unaware of whether people kill deer for food. All I know is cartoon deer get shot now and then.
Let's end this debate...
For <3.
On the subject of metal, Follow the Blind is Blind Guardian's best album, provided you listen to it at full blast. I can't drive listening to anything else.
I've still only heard Nightfall in terms of a complete album. But from snippets of other albums I get the impression I'll prefer the more dramatic latter-works by them.
Judging by Nightfall and my fondness for songs like And Then There Was Silence and The Maiden and the Minstrel Knight.
Basically I reckon I'd like A Night at the Opera :P.
Dystopia - Backstabber (The Aftermath)
At 3/20/09 10:37 PM, D3NTATUS wrote:At 3/20/09 10:34 PM, burnoutfool wrote: Blind Guardian is mediocre at bestFalse.
Im not much into their vocalwork, which is what they put the majority of their focus on
Death is only the Beginning. Death is all that is real. Heliosohophism.
At 3/20/09 10:41 PM, burnoutfool wrote: Im not much into their vocalwork, which is what they put the majority of their focus on
Really? I love Hansi's voice, he and whoever the dude from Angra is (Edu Falaschi?) are my favorite power vocalists.
I am against bullying, sure i have had my feelings of doing what sirtom93 did, but i never put any plans down or anything like that, i put up with it and went ahead with life, and listened to metal. Namely Meshuggah and other bands that sound like technical noise/what the fuck to non-metal listeners, actually sounded like calm soothing music to me. Not that there was much bullying there in high school, and i still fought back enough to stop it, but back in primary school, and when all of that stuff would come back to me, metal in general would be like...i don't know, but it helped.
It's something i'd rather not remember anymore though.
||Metal Hell||C&C Regular||My TF2 (created in Garrys Mod) Series: Trouble in the Intel Room - Featuring FPS scenes! *le gasp!* - This weeks sig by: ParadoxVoid
At 3/20/09 10:43 PM, D3NTATUS wrote:At 3/20/09 10:41 PM, burnoutfool wrote: Im not much into their vocalwork, which is what they put the majority of their focus onReally? I love Hansi's voice, he and whoever the dude from Angra is (Edu Falaschi?) are my favorite power vocalists.
I think that Nergal and Ihsahn are much better
Death is only the Beginning. Death is all that is real. Heliosohophism.
At 3/20/09 10:41 PM, burnoutfool wrote:Im not much into their vocalwork, which is what they put the majority of their focus onAt 3/20/09 10:34 PM, burnoutfool wrote: Blind Guardian is mediocre at best
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!!!!!!
Make war, not love.
