At 4/9/08 12:59 AM, X-Imperium-X wrote:

At 4/8/08 11:25 PM, tom5coat wrote: this blasphemy must be countered

Longest stupidest song title ever. Me and a friend had a good time making fun of that.

But insanely awesome song makes up for that

At 4/8/08 11:25 PM, tom5coat wrote: this blasphemy must be countered

Thats better. Awesome song to.

At 4/8/08 11:25 PM, tom5coat wrote:

this blasphemy

So from now on, We are not allowed to tell people about awesome music, If
it's not metal?

Oh hay there level 21 icon. ;)

I've finally fixed my damned computer, after 2 weeks of grief, which has made an impact on my posting here.

And should be able t check out a few more bands, what with more access to the innurnetz.

I also acquired the new Decrepit Birth album finally after Charon mentioned it. It great, out does ...And Time Begins.

At 4/9/08 01:58 AM, Kiddmeizter wrote: So from now on, We are not allowed to tell people about awesome music, If
it's not metal?

Started a new rule, have I?

Stop the bullshit.

My new guitar should be here by tomorrow...I can't wait :)

I'm also thinking of buying a second, larger amp. I still like my Roland, but I'd like something with more punch as well. Any recommendations, by any chance? Something around 40 - 65 Watts.

At 4/9/08 01:28 AM, Lost-Thought wrote: But insanely awesome song makes up for that

In your opinion. Nile, IMO IMO IMO is tremendously over-rated and Ithyphallic was one of the most over-rated albums of 2007. The band as a whole doesn't completely suck, but I don't think they have been great since maybe In Their Darkened Shrines. Annihilation of the Wicked has some merit (as does Ithypenis) but neither do much for me.

On an aside, that's why I hate the comparisons to Behemoth, I don't think they're similar bands, and IMO IMO IMO Behemoth just keeps getting better, while Nile is sort of stagnating.

Just an opinion.

Anyway. Stop fucking around. Crazy Drunk Drivers!

see whut I did thar?

At 4/8/08 09:48 AM, Sense-Offender wrote:

I see. I'll still get those albums, however. But either way, I wish Greg Lake returned to the band, even if it was just for a short while.

I heard that he kind of lost it, like he's not so good anymore. I don't know if there's any truth to that.

Damn. That really really sucks. And on top of that, there seems to be no going back with ELP.

Hey, King Crimson are still awesome. :)

my number one favorite band of all time. God, I love them so much.

Too much, perhaps? :p Nah, it's cool.

You should check out Tony Levin's solo stuff as well as Adrian Belew.

Bah, more recommendations. I appreciate them, but now ain't a great time for them. Still, I'll check them out as I progress with the King Crimson albums.

At 4/8/08 03:55 PM, IrishGun wrote: I think their heavier songs are alright, but the rest can go to hell.

I think you can go to hell. :p

At 4/8/08 04:15 PM, Abyssus wrote: Some of Sonata's older stuff is harder to get hold of if you don't want to wait for the shipping...

Pfft. I've had to get their albums from the Internet and the prices were higher than what I usually pay for CDs online. I have no chance of getting their albums in this area with the exception of Reckoning Night.

Really all I want right now Shy; it may be kind of a pansy song but it's good.

Who the fuck cares if it's "kind of a pansy song"? If it's awesome, that's all that matters.

At 4/8/08 06:07 PM, batman64 wrote: Time to toss in my 2 cents worth regarding Nu-Metal and Metalcore.

Sounds like a sensible analogy. :)

At 4/9/08 10:31 AM, Bahamut wrote:

At 4/8/08 03:55 PM, IrishGun wrote: I think their heavier songs are alright, but the rest can go to hell.

I think you can go to hell. :p

*sniff* Too mean.

Spot the reference.

Also, can someone give me a band that isn't really known well? Like, Doom or Death or something?

At 4/9/08 08:31 AM, Goatchrist wrote: Stop the bullshit.

Agreed.

My new guitar should be here by tomorrow...I can't wait :)

Sweet : D

I'm also thinking of buying a second, larger amp. I still like my Roland, but I'd like something with more punch as well. Any recommendations, by any chance? Something around 40 - 65 Watts.

I'll add my own question to this, I'm also looking for an amp, but for a bass. I use alot of down tuning, so I need an amp that's good for gig work, and a smaller one for recording/practice work to fit that.

As an aside, I really do suggest checking out Silent Descent: www.silentdescent.com

Dunno if it counts as 'metal' or not, since it being my mate's band I'm biased. But it does sound good. I'm buying their album on my card soon enough, so if you like the tracks on Last.fm or on the media section of the site, seriously, buy it and help them get started up xP

Hey, so for anyone who cares, I've gotten really into a band called Falkenbach.
I know more than half of you have heard of them, but that's not my point.
I'm looking for bands that sound like them, if anyone could help me that would be swell.

At 4/8/08 04:29 AM, Oppugnant wrote:

At 4/7/08 10:32 PM, HeavenDuff wrote:

Metal bands I like:

Do many of those band are NOT metal.

Thats your opinion dude

I consider Metalcore and Nu-Metal as metal, because... there is a lot of specific similarities with a lot of other metal styles.

The difference's outweigh the similarities.

Yeah... just like Power Metal and Black Metal are fucking different... but still... both of those are considered metal... but not metalcore? nah, you can't change my mind with that kind of argument, but maybe if you could bring a little more points, maybe I could understand why you guys try to keep metalcore out of metal music...

Guitar riffs first of, are sometimes based on thrash metal and melodic death metal riffs.

Metalcore base there riffs of Hardcore Punk, actually.

And drums... you can't deny that metalcore drums are metal...

Hardly.

Hardly? please... you probably know All That Remains... if those drums are not metal, tell me what the fuck they are.

At 4/9/08 12:33 PM, Shalashaska-1 wrote: Sweet : D

Hell yeah, about time, I've been waiting 5 weeks for its delivery :P

I'll add my own question to this, I'm also looking for an amp, but for a bass. I use alot of down tuning, so I need an amp that's good for gig work, and a smaller one for recording/practice work to fit that.

I can recommend the Roland bass cube series, all sizes are good, as well as the Hartke Kickback 120W & all Warwick amp models. A friend of mine plays the Hartke and it's definitely suitable for Brutal Death, for example. Nice, heavy tone.

At 4/9/08 02:13 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: Yeah... just like Power Metal and Black Metal are fucking different... but still... both of those are considered metal... but not metalcore? nah, you can't change my mind with that kind of argument, but maybe if you could bring a little more points, maybe I could understand why you guys try to keep metalcore out of metal music...

Oh man, do I really have to repeat myself? A few hundred pages back, I wrote a fucking essay on how Slipknot and similar bands are NOT metal. Do I really have to type all that again? Because most of what I wrote can be applied to Metalcore as well.

It's not about "hating" the style, it's about significant stylistical differences in the sound. I could write a complete essay about the differences of the vocal style alone.

One thing you shouldn't forget is that some metalcore bands are indeed metal with core elements, that includes "All that Remains" whose music is basically a rehash of melodic death metal riffs with hardcore-styled vocals and a few single note-harcore breakdowns.

This is copied from page 1240 its GC points against metalcore/slipknot etc.

----quote----
Guys, it's fun to read how you all contradict each other in your reasons why Slipknot is metal/not metal/gay/etc. Metal is neither defined by fanbase nor by looks or popularity.

Slipknot is not metal due to their music being mainly hardcore influenced (downtuned single-note chugging on the lowest guitar string is typical for hardcore and has never been a metal characteristic before the arrival of Groove Metal in the 90s, which was created by adding OUTSIDE influences).

Their clean singing is in no way metal. The hooklines, the certain usage of melody is highly reminiscent of pop music. (Don't be offended again CHRIST, I'm purely objective) Clean heavy metal vocals do have an entirely different approach. No matter whether the band plays oldschool heavy metal, doom metal or power metal. All styles are related to each other. Rapping is an outside influence and therefore not exactly "metal" if you see what I mean. If there was a band playing music similar to Cannibal Corpse with a rapper on vocals, it would still be metal, albeit an outside influence would have found its way in. But a band like Slipknot, with no musical foundation in heavy metal, but plenty of it in hardcore, is not metal. I'll make a list for you:

Slipknot influence analysis:

Guitars - single note hardcore chugging + typical modern rock riffs = not metal
Vocals - melodic singing with poppish structure + hardcore screaming/yelling = not metal
Bass - it's easy to hear that it's ranging from typical rock to funk bass lines. = not metal
Drums - 80 bpm rock beats, repetition, rare cymbals + doublebass = rock/hardcore/metal
Turntables - Best case - funk inspired, worst case - scratching without purpose = not metal
Trash cans - no further comments needed = not metal, barely music at all

So, what do we have here?

Slipknot is a hardcore band. I've always seen the band like this and in my humble opinion, the use of the term "nu-metal" is absolutely unnecessary for the most part, due to it's core being nothing more than modern hardcore. Slipknot is mainly hardcore mixed with modern rock. The rather new term "Aggro-rock" would definitely fit. The only thing that is even remotely metal AT TIMES is the drumming due its rather complex nature for a hardcore band.

Alright now? I've tried my best to explain.
----quote----

just to save you some work :P

At 4/9/08 08:31 AM, Goatchrist wrote: I'm also thinking of buying a second, larger amp. I still like my Roland, but I'd like something with more punch as well. Any recommendations, by any chance? Something around 40 - 65 Watts.

I recamend a Crate. But thats just my thoughts.

At 4/8/08 11:25 PM, tom5coat wrote:

this blasphemy must be countered

Pretty fucking awsome I like that. :)

At 4/9/08 02:44 PM, Goatchrist wrote:

At 4/9/08 12:33 PM, Shalashaska-1 wrote: Sweet : D

Hell yeah, about time, I've been waiting 5 weeks for its delivery :P

I'll add my own question to this, I'm also looking for an amp, but for a bass. I use alot of down tuning, so I need an amp that's good for gig work, and a smaller one for recording/practice work to fit that.

I can recommend the Roland bass cube series, all sizes are good, as well as the Hartke Kickback 120W & all Warwick amp models. A friend of mine plays the Hartke and it's definitely suitable for Brutal Death, for example. Nice, heavy tone.

At 4/9/08 02:13 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: Yeah... just like Power Metal and Black Metal are fucking different... but still... both of those are considered metal... but not metalcore? nah, you can't change my mind with that kind of argument, but maybe if you could bring a little more points, maybe I could understand why you guys try to keep metalcore out of metal music...

Oh man, do I really have to repeat myself? A few hundred pages back, I wrote a fucking essay on how Slipknot and similar bands are NOT metal. Do I really have to type all that again? Because most of what I wrote can be applied to Metalcore as well.

It's not about "hating" the style, it's about significant stylistical differences in the sound. I could write a complete essay about the differences of the vocal style alone.

One thing you shouldn't forget is that some metalcore bands are indeed metal with core elements, that includes "All that Remains" whose music is basically a rehash of melodic death metal riffs with hardcore-styled vocals and a few single note-harcore breakdowns.

Alright, I like that kind of explanation a lot more than the usual "you suck !!! metalcore isn't metal !!!"

I understand what you mean, but I would like to know how you can tell what kind of music is what.
Lets start here, black metal and power metal, probably two of the most different metal styles. What exactly in those two styles make them "metal".
So I can understand exactly whats going on in your head :P
Thanks

At 4/9/08 07:30 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: I understand what you mean, but I would like to know how you can tell what kind of music is what.
Lets start here, black metal and power metal, probably two of the most different metal styles. What exactly in those two styles make them "metal".
So I can understand exactly whats going on in your head :P
Thanks

Thank you Charon for digging that up.

Well, let's compare them. Just the most common and typical features of both genres. Of course there is the more heavy, or doom metal inspired part of Black Metal and the more Hard Rock inspired Power Metal, but let's keep that out of the way now.

Black Metal - high-pitched screaming, tremolo-picking, blast-beats/doublebass

Power Metal - high-pitched singing, single-note picking - mostly highlighting the end of a riff with a power chord, doublebass to standard 4/4 rockbeat

Let's see:

High-pitched screams are a trademark of extreme metal, most common in BM. If a vocal style like the one used in Burzum, Darkthrone or Gorgoroth is used in industrial or ambient projects, it is a definite METAL element. You see what I mean? Extreme vocals like these help classifying the metal genre.

Tremolo-picking is a technique first developed in the 70s, used in guitar solos & leads. It was not until the uprising of Bathory, Sodom and Sepultura (Bestial Devastation/Morbid Visions) that tremolo-picking was meant to be a riffing style. Rarely is this technique used outside of metal, as it's far too fast & aggressive for most more accessible styles of music. A definite metal element.

I won't have to say much about blast-beats, they were first used in the mid-80s and the technique is probably one of the most unique parts of metal music. Yes, Grindcore does use blast-beats a lot, but even while many bands in that genre aren't clearly metal, the blast-beat is a metal element and therefore influencing their music with said genre. Clear? Same goes for double-bass, even though that technique actually has it roots in the 70s, when bands like Judas Priest turned their knobs to 11. It is said that The Who first started it and I won't deny that, but the traditional doublebass drumming of today is - as we know it, is as fitting to the metal genre as it gets. Sure, lots of Hardcore bands use it nowadays, but it's still a style that stems from metal. It was picked up by Hardcore Punk in the early 80s, but, I repeat, they merely took over a metal element that was popular at the time and we all know that Punk and Thrash Metal always had certain ties.

Yes, Power Metal is a very different style when compared to Black Metal, but it surely isn't any "less metal" that BM.

High-pitched singing, often seen as "gay" or "soft" is as metal as a blast-beat. Face it, this technique is what 60s/70s hardrock bands did taken to the extreme. Guys like Rob Halford & King Diamond are responsible for what Power Metal vocalists have been doing for the last 25 years.

Nothing is more typical for Power Metal than the single-note, palm-muted riffs with power chords. Its origins come from early Speed Metal (again, we have to thank Judas Priest for that - listen to "Tyrant" and "Exciter" to hear the birth of thrash & speed metal back in 1976/1978!) and modern Power Metal is the direct descendant of Speed Metal. These riffs only exist in Speed/Power/Thrash and you won't hear them in any genre without them being changed around to a certain degree.

I wrote about doublebass earlier, so I won't repeat that, but another interesting thing is that many power metal bands tend to use the standard rock beat in their sound, when they are not constantly casting doublebass fury upon us. This is, as its name implies, not a metal technique per se, as it's an age-old technique, it's just expanded upon and made a tad more technical usually. In classic Power Metal, slow drumming is not a part with which you can classify it as being metal. To be honest, if you'd have judged Black Sabbath by their drumming back then, they wouldn't have been very metal either.

Alright, enough dissecting here, I hope you get my point. Every metal style has its own characteristics and unique techniques & methods of playing. With a bit of a trained ear, most bands can be easily separated from being metal or not. Might just take some time.

Dear Goatsie:

Blastbeats were used way before the eighties. Back in the day, jazz drummers would perform blastbeats and in fact, were the ones to christen it with its name.

At 4/9/08 09:16 PM, Idiosyncratic wrote: Blastbeats were used way before the eighties. Back in the day, jazz drummers would perform blastbeats and in fact, were the ones to christen it with its name.

I know what you mean. I guess you are talking about the technique Tony Williams used back in the 60s. That is not the blast-beat as we know it. You are talking about the single-handed, one bassdrum + snare technique which is not the traditional blast-beat as it's being commonly associated with today.

I could go back to metal's blues roots in many different metal elements, but they all have changed fundamentally.

Hey guys! Just got "Bondage Goat Zombie" in the mail today. It fucking kicks ass! Plus, I got the t-shirt + DVD, so I'm pretty stoked. I'm takeing a field trip to New York, and i'll be taking my iPod so I can listen to Belphegor all the way. Have fun here & keep it metal! Peace \m/

How many of you guys listen to In Flames or Armored Saint?

Thanks for the descriptions Goatchrist :P
But I should make my question clearer.

If power metal and black metal are so different, but still both are metal.
Why is it that Metalcore (which uses a lot of double-bass, speed palmed muted riffs, like thrash metal bands do and other stuff like that) isnt considered metal ?
You said that it was because of all the differences...

So this is my question:
Why is it, that with all the differences, you can tell that Power Metal and Black Metal are both Metal styles of music, and that Metalcore isn't metal?

Is it clearer?

At 4/9/08 10:36 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: Why is it, that with all the differences, you can tell that Power Metal and Black Metal are both Metal styles of music, and that Metalcore isn't metal?

I know I'm not Goatchrist, but I'll still give it a shot: if you look at power metal and black metal, their primary influences are metal. Same goes for any metal subgenre, whether it be doom, death or thrash. The only exception is tradition heavy metal, because it was the first and therefore evolved from something other than metal (i.e. hard rock and blues rock). However, metalcore, as evidenced by it's name, evolved not out of metal but rather hardcore. It's hardcore with metal influences, which oftentimes are not enough to make it "metal." Just as the influences of metal in Slipknot, SOAD, Korn and Rage Against the Machine are not enough to make it bonafide metal, metalcore does not generally have enough metal to make it metal. However, there are some metalcore bands that have more metal than -core, and SOME people consider these bands metal.

The only way to be able to tell the difference is to listen to more metal, and get a real feel for it. The only true way to learn about a genre is to listen to it, whether it be metal, ska, jazz or funk. No amount of text could educate you as much as just listening to an album.

At 4/9/08 09:16 PM, Idiosyncratic wrote: Dear Goatsie:

Blastbeats were used way before the eighties. Back in the day, jazz drummers would perform blastbeats and in fact, were the ones to christen it with its name.

Also jazz musicians were the first to use double bass pedals. I don't think they did it in the metal sense, just like with blast beats, but they were the first. Jazz was the first in a lot of stuff.

I listen to lot of metal music actually :P

It's just that I have always considered metalcore bands as metal.
But I like the example you used with Rage Against The Machine, a band that I have always considered being a Rock band, influenced by metal. So thats pretty much the answer I was looking for. Thanks

At 4/9/08 11:51 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: I listen to lot of metal music actually :P

It's just that I have always considered metalcore bands as metal.
But I like the example you used with Rage Against The Machine, a band that I have always considered being a Rock band, influenced by metal. So thats pretty much the answer I was looking for. Thanks

No problem at all, and you're always welcome to ask any questions you want to.

At 4/10/08 12:35 AM, D3NTATUS wrote:

At 4/9/08 11:51 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: I listen to lot of metal music actually :P

It's just that I have always considered metalcore bands as metal.
But I like the example you used with Rage Against The Machine, a band that I have always considered being a Rock band, influenced by metal. So thats pretty much the answer I was looking for. Thanks

No problem at all, and you're always welcome to ask any questions you want to.

You almost make it sound like you know more about metal than me >:(

Anyway, someone knows when Wintersun and Children of Bodom are releasing their next records?

At 4/10/08 12:54 AM, HeavenDuff wrote:
Anyway, someone knows when Wintersun and Children of Bodom are releasing their next records?

Blooddrunk just came out, and Wintersun is slated for a Autumn release at this time, according to Metal Archives which are usually pretty damn accurate. Not sure why you'd want the CoB album though, I've heard nothing but bad things. :p

* no offense if you like them though

At 4/9/08 09:55 PM, Attactivist wrote: Hey guys! Just got "Bondage Goat Zombie" in the mail today.

I had it about 3 weeks or more ago :D

No..i didn't just say that...

But i don't know, its not an album i would personally go buy for myself, but still an excellent album.