At 2/9/07 10:44 PM, Tim7 wrote:
Had Lemieux not have an health problems and not played 500 less games than Gretzky he would probably be the all-time leader in points.

It's like me saying, well I would have had much more points than both of them if my daddy made me play hockey instead of football!

Check one of my post last page... Even with the advantage of playing fewer games, Gretzky still has a better ppg than Lemieux.

Lemieux was one of the greatest player ever... proof is that some people even compare him to the best one.

At 2/10/07 04:45 PM, Snowy-Beast wrote: Check one of my post last page... Even with the advantage of playing fewer games, Gretzky still has a better ppg than Lemieux.

It helps that he played more games.

More games = more points. Especially if some of those games are 2 or more point games.

Let's clear this question once and for all!

_____.....-----""" Lemieux... Vs ...Gretzky """-----....._____

_________ GP- G- A- PTS- PPG ...vs... GP- G- A- PTS- PPG_________

1st Season 73 43 57 100 1.37 vs 79 51 86 137 1.73
2nd Season 79 48 93 141 1.78 vs 80 55 109 164 2.05
3nd Season 63 54 53 107 1.70 vs 80 92 120 212 2.65
4nd Season 77 70 98 168 2.18 vs 80 71 125 196 2.45
5nd Season 76 85 114 199 2.62 vs 74 87 118 205 2.77
6nd Season 59 45 78 123 2.08 vs 80 73 135 208 2.60
7nd Season 26 19 26 45 1.73 vs 80 52 163 215 2.69
8nd Season 64 44 87 131 2.05 vs 79 62 121 183 2.32
9nd Season 60 69 91 160 2.67 vs 64 40 109 149 2.33
10nd Season 22 17 20 37 1.68 vs 78 54 114 168 2.15
11nd Season 70 69 92 161 2.30 vs 73 40 102 142 1.95
12nd Season 76 50 72 122 1.61 vs 78 41 122 163 2.09
13nd Season xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx vs 74 31 90 121 1.64
14nd Season xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx vs 45 16 49 65 1.44
15nd Season xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx vs 81 38 92 130 1.61
16nd Season 43 35 41 76 1.77 vs 38 11 37 48 1.26
17nd Season 24 6 25 31 1.28 vs 80 23 79 102 1.29
18nd Season 67 28 63 91 1.36 vs 82 25 72 97 1.21
19nd Season 10 1 8 9 0.90 vs 80 23 67 90 1.15
20nd Season 26 7 15 22 0.85 vs 70 9 53 62 0.89

Mario has :
4 Lester B. Pearson Trophy
6 Art Ross Trophy
3 Hart Memorial Trophy
2 Conn Smythe Trophy
1 Bill Masterton Trophy
6 (out of 8) Seasons of 2.00 ppg +
4 Season vs Season with a better ppg than Gretzky
3 Season vs Season with a higher total of pts than Gretzky

Gretzky has :
5 Lester B. Pearson Trophy
10 Art Ross Trophy
9 Hart Memorial Trophy
2 Conn Smythe Trophy
5 Lady Byng Memorial Trophy
10 (out of 11) Seasons of 2.00 ppg +
16 Season vs Season with a better ppg than Lemieux
17 Season vs Season with a higher total of pts than Lemieux

______.....-----""" Playoffs"""-----.....______

.....-----""" Lemieux... Vs ...Gretzky """-----.....

_GP - G - A - PTS - PPG ..vs.. GP - G - A - PTS - PPG_
107 76 96 172 - 1.61 vs 208 122 260 382 1.84

______.....-----""" Career"""-----.....______
_GP - G - A - PTS - PPG ..vs.. _GP - G - A - PTS - PPG_
915 690 1033 1723 1.88 vs 1487 894 1963 2857 1.92

Here are the numbers!
Lemieux had an amazing career, but not as amazing has Gretzky.
When people ask around who is the best NHL player ever; those that answer Lemieux answers with their hearth.
The best NHL players that ever step foot on ice his without any doubt the Great One period.

Now on an other note...
Manny Legace the former Red Wings goalie #2 has shutout his ancient team 1 - 0 Thursday night. It put an end to the longest active streak without being shut out. The Red Wings were last shut out Jan. 7, 2004, in a 3-0 loss to Boston - a string of 176 games. Calgary holds the NHL record for consecutive games without being shutout - 264 from Nov. 12, 1981 to Jan. 9, 1985. Last year, all the team had suffer at least one shut out but Detroit. The wings will have to build this streak back. We have to consider than after loosing Yzerman (700), Hull (700+), Robitaille (650+) Shanahan (600+) in the past 4years, the Wings new leaders in career goal are Robert Lang (208), Lidstrom (199), and Schneider (196). Not as deadly is it? It's a good thing they can count on good youngster in Pavel Datsyuk and Henrik Zetterberg to carry the flag. Let's wish them the best of luck in the race for the President Trophy

At 2/9/07 10:44 PM, Tim7 wrote:
Had Lemieux not have an health problems and not played 500 less games than Gretzky he would probably be the all-time leader in points.

For God sake!!! Stop that bull shit!
The #99 has 1308 points more than #66!
That means Mario Lemieux is short of 7 seasons in a row of 188 pts to match the great one in points per game. That is a tall order for someone who only had one season in 17years of more than 168 points.
Lemieux isn’t even in the same page as Gretzky.
It’s like comparing a Honda Civic with a Turbo H22 and a Stage II of NOS against a stock Ferrari 599 GTB GT.

P.S. Go Wings, destroy the Flames tomorrow!!

Funny you point this out...

To conclude... before Mario's first retirement (his 12 first season) his stats were;

Games: 745
Goals: 544
Assists: 871
Points: 1415
Points per game: 1.91

After Wayne's first 12 his stats were;

Games: 925
Goals: 718
Assists: 1424
Points: 2142
Points per game: 2.32

To match it; Lemieux would have need 180 more games (to have 925 as well as Gretzky) of an average of 4.04 pts per game. That's 2 full season of a minimum of 332 points to just match Gretzky.

GAME OVER

At 2/10/07 10:15 PM, Canas wrote: Not only that, but Mario had fucking cancer in his first twelve years. What did Gretzky have? Linemates, and one of the greatest dynasties of all time.

Mario's final two seasons dropped his points per game average below Gretzky. Seasons both plagued by back spasms and heart problems.

You're an idiot.

You are a dumb fuck...
Comparing Mario's best 10 years vs. Wayne entire career is just stupid. If you want to play this way Teemue Selanne is the best hockey player since he had the best 1st season no one ever had. Why don't you compare the Best 10 years of Mario vs. the best 10 years of Wayne? Take off the last 2 season of Wayne as well and you'll see that his ppg is by far higher than Mario.
I bet you are one of those that find that Jacques Villeneuve his better (and has a better career) than Michael Schumacher.

His Hasek better the Brodeur this year? Because his stats are: GP42 - W30 - L8 - OT3 vs. GP53 - W34 - L14 - OT5. Wait Patrick Lalime is the best goaltender this year 1.000 of % of save how amazing!
Career vs. Career; Wayne his better than Lemieux
Best Year vs. Best year; Wayne his better than Lemieux
Worst Years vs. Worst Years; Wayne his better than Lemieux

Why can't you see? You shouldn't even compare Lemieux to Gretzky. Wayne is without any doubt the best hockey player ever.
17 better season than Lemieux out of 20!
Better PPG than Lemieux 16 years out of 20!
How can't you see?

Look GAME OVER!

Next subject please....

By the way; Mario was 20 when he enter the NHL; Gretzky was 18...
And remind me who of the two score 50 goal in 39games?

In my opinion Lemieux was a better player than Gretzky. I mean, Lemieux had more charisma, and vast skill than Wayne. Sure, Wayne holds the records, and was talented; but he lost it all. Now, he's coach for the Phoenix Coyotes; a terrible one at that (poor Phoenix). Even Gretzky admits that Lemieux was the better player. Lemieux was also better,a nd more exciting to watch.

Coop, NEVER COMPARE LEMIEUX TO THE WORST CANUCK CAPTIAN EVER. Everyone knows Bure was the best Canuck period. But, I digress.

Lemieux>Gretzky.

At 2/10/07 02:07 PM, Tim7 wrote: Messier sucked, Gretzky padded his stats for him and so did the Stanley Cup winning Rangers team. After he got traded to the Canucks he was what he is, a slightly above average player.

Granted his Canucks days weren't brilliant, but they were better than most players in the league. He had longevity as well, which is why he's up there with all those points.

At 2/10/07 02:08 PM, Tim7 wrote:

At 2/10/07 12:43 PM, Coop83 wrote: That's like saying if Roger Clemens or Nolan Ryan made as many starts as Cy Young, that they'd have the major league lead in wins. I know it's baseball, but the stats don't say either Ryan or Clemens is the greatest pitcher, Cy Young is.

Since injuries and starts are the same thing. It's stupid to compare Baseball and Hockey.

You need to take it in context - Cy Young pitched daily for 6-9 innings. Now some pitchers don't manage that every fifth day. If Clemens and Ryan had been pitching on the same field, they would have been better. Maybe Lemieux would have been better if he'd have played as much as Gretzky. I don't think he would have, but I respect your opinion.

At 2/10/07 04:45 PM, Snowy-Beast wrote: Lemieux was one of the greatest player ever... proof is that some people even compare him to the best one.

Exactly, he's close to the best, but not quite there

At 2/10/07 07:25 PM, Snowy-Beast wrote: GAME OVER

And considering Gretzky's single season points record...

At 2/11/07 12:08 AM, Snowy-Beast wrote: I bet you are one of those that find that Jacques Villeneuve his better (and has a better career) than Michael Schumacher.

Juan Manuel Fangio was better, but only because Schumacher had a car which practically drove itself.

At 2/11/07 01:56 AM, Canas wrote: I've watched both play in real life, i've seen the stats, and it's obvious. Gretzky was only good in the wide-open eighties. Once the shortened season started in the mid-90's he couldn't score at all. Whiner wouldn't last in today's NHL.

Like Lemieux could last in today's NHL? That's why he retired, face it. Gretzky is doing alright behind the bench, though he's not quite a Scotty Bowman yet :P

At 2/11/07 02:44 AM, MattTheParanoidKat wrote: Lemieux>Gretzky.

And you back this up with what? Read the past few posts of this thread

you = lose

At 2/11/07 06:58 PM, Canas wrote: I've yet to meet anybody that knew a fair bit about hockey that thought Gretzky was better.

THere's always an exception that proves a rule!

He couldn't skate, he didn't have a shot, and he wasn't big.

Maybe it's because I'm a little guy (5'11, 140lbs) that I feel an afinity for Gretzky. I can't skate, don't have a shot, so maybe I can become great :P

Guess you're the only two.

Look, if there are players I would call better than 99, they aren't going to be from the same era, like Mario. I'd have at least made a passionate argument about Gordie Howe, or Bobby Hull, perhaps Rocket Richard or Henri Richard.

There are too many stats out there to disprove Mario as being better. I know you can prove (almost) anything with stats, but I still believe that Gretzky is better.

My god, the Avalanche suck this year. We score 5 goals and still lose!

At 2/12/07 10:47 AM, Canas wrote: There is a very large crowd which believes Mario was a far better player, and it's perhaps larger then the crowd of opposite opinion. I'm just trying to get you two to realize that your opinion is of the minority amongst well-educated hockey fans.

I respect the fact that I am probably in the minority of fans who think that Gretzky is better than Lemieux, but at the end of the day that's the thing about opinions. You can say whatever you like and it doesn't have to be right or wrong. You're welcome to yours, but don't expect me to believe the same as you, that's all I'm saying

Still, my opinions on hockey players might be a little misguided if you follow my fantasy progress at the moment :P

Mario was a better physical specimen, had better wheels and more talent.

Gretzky was good at finding excellent players that finished everything. Wayne Gretzky is Joe Juneau with a more fortunate set of circumstances.

At 2/13/07 01:12 AM, Dobio wrote: Joe Juneau?

Lol, come on now, that's a little absurd.

COOP DON'T IGNORE MY LAST POST.

If you think it's absurd you obviously haven't seen his numbers.

JUNEAUUUSFRURAYSUASRIOAYSRASR.
Srsly though, Mario's super and Gretzky's a whiner.

At 2/12/07 05:56 PM, Canas wrote: Hey, most of it is luck. People have bad seasons.

... or injuries keep you from first place....

>_>
<_<

Or if you trade with a tool like myself.

(Langkow, Huselius, Cammalleri)

At 2/12/07 05:56 PM, Canas wrote:

At 2/12/07 10:56 AM, Coop83 wrote: Still, my opinions on hockey players might be a little misguided if you follow my fantasy progress at the moment :P

Lolz.

Hey, most of it is luck. People have bad seasons.

... or injuries keep you from first place....

>_>
<_<

Yeah, but I had a decent night last night for a change - Thanks to Rick DiPietro (39 saves win), Milan Hejduk (PPG, Assist, Game winner) and Peter Budaj (39 Save Shutout)

At 2/13/07 01:12 AM, Dobio wrote: COOP DON'T IGNORE MY LAST POST.

I'm not ignoring it! I'm just sitting here in stunned silence.

Some moves don't particularly suit people (Teemu Selane to Colorado for example) So maybe Mark Messier just wasn't suited to playing as a canuck.

Habs are on a free fall!
Do you think they have what it takes to stop their fall into a spot out of the playoff?

Wings will have to get back on their feet.
Hasek has to heal because they aren't the same team without him.

They had outscored their opponent 71-39 in third periods before the last 2 games.
With McDonald in the net; they have been outscored 1-8 in the last 2 third period.

Let's see what will happen tonight against the Star!

Habs are still falling apart!
Their double penalties end up making a winning game into a loosing game.
Was 1-0 Habs and because 2-1 New Jersey in a matter on seconds...

On a better note

The Red Wings have done it again! Coming back from 1-0 in third periods to win 3-1! I guess they are back on track!

At 2/14/07 12:45 PM, Snowy-Beast wrote: Habs are on a free fall!

Looks like I might have traded Huet away at the right time, for a change

At 2/14/07 09:21 PM, Canas wrote:

At 2/14/07 04:55 AM, Coop83 wrote: Some moves don't particularly suit people (Teemu Selane to Colorado for example) So maybe Mark Messier just wasn't suited to playing as a canuck.

The difference was that Teemu was injured the entire time.

He played 78 games of an 82 game season. He can't have been that badly injured. He scored half the points he had in his last 82-game season with the Sharks (32, instead of 64) and that was when he played on the same team as his favourite linemate, Paul Kariya

Thanks to Henrik Zetterberg (and Aapo's Mediocre Team), I'm now up to 13th in the hockey league. Less than 25 points away from Gooch

At 2/15/07 09:29 AM, Canas wrote: Played with Kariya on the third line, sure.

He needed surgery.

Yeah, but if the move had suited them, they'd have both pulled themselves up to standard and would have taken the Avs to the playoffs and probably another Stanley Cup.

That was before we got shit.

I'm not bitter, I'm just realistic!

Selanne needed MAJOR surgery, in addition to that he was playing 10 minutes a game before the lockout his left leg was 3 inches shorter than the right. not only that, but the avs didn't provide an environment for either player to succeed.

And now they're terrible. lul.

The Habs are KILLING me. I'm so tired of them being so inconsistent. Now Kovalev is out for 3 weeks and Huet is injured. A big move better be made soon. If they don't make the playoffs, there's gonna be hell to pay...I don't even want to think about the Leafs making it and the Habs not. I'm going to the game Saturday night, they better win...

At 2/15/07 07:24 PM, ArmyAnt wrote: The Habs are KILLING me.

The Habs will lose again as always.

Forsberg has been traded to Nashville...

and for way too much in my opinion.

At 2/15/07 04:09 PM, VeryProudofYa wrote: And now they're terrible. lul.

Yeah, but I don't care, we've got a 600 goal scorer playing for us. Only Rangers fans can look down upon me, because they have two. Joe Sakic scored his 600th career goal last night against the Calgary Flames (a shame it weas an empty netter, but they all count)

At 2/15/07 08:32 PM, ArmyAnt wrote: Forsberg has been traded to Nashville...

and for way too much in my opinion.

I think the move will do him good. Hopefully he can link up with Paul Kariya to make a nice 1-2 punch. When Forsberg gets going, he is an assist machine. I know he's battered and bruised, but he's a gritty player that I was sorry to lose from the Avs.

At 2/15/07 10:18 PM, Canas wrote: Nashville has so much youth and talent they can afford to give up draft picks.

It's an attempt to gain some momentum for the playoffs. They can afford to gamble

I personally think Forsberg is nearly useless, but hey, maybe he'll prove us wrong.

His injuries have caused him trouble since about 2001 (He had his spleen removed before the Cup series with New Jersey in 2001), but he was still one of the most productive players for the Avs, but he did come back to make 27 points in the 01-02 playoffs.

He's averaging just under 1 assist per game in 680 career games. Let's give him a chance to see if he can become productive away from Philadelphia

Think of it like this, the Preds gave up 3 first rounders and a third rounder.

When the ducks got pronger it was, I think 3 or four first rounders and a second.

Fairly similar. Only, the preds get Forse for 20 games. Not only that, but you have to remember that he's never been in a playoff after he's had such a multitude of nagging injuries. Yes, there's the one year where he missed the whole season and led the league in plyoff scoring.

But as he is, with all the easily reaggravated injuries I don't see him making it out the first round. Especially if they play a northwest team trying to play the oiler card. Because even in the division is mediocre, a fair amount of body bashing's done within it.

But all this is assuming he even makes it to the playoffs, rofl.

Because even though everyone in the division is mediocre, rather.

Messier was a dick.

LOL UNRETIRE NUMBER 11 SO I CAN PLAY IN IT JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Like your number fucking matters.

Messier's commercials for iO Digital Cable are really annoying.

"It took me 20 years to get this seat."
"...You're Mark Messier!"
"You're Dan!"
"Hey, nacho?"
"Hey sure! :D" *cue end commercial*

At 2/16/07 06:17 PM, Buddhist wrote: Messier's commercials for iO Digital Cable are really annoying.

"It took me 20 years to get this seat."
"...You're Mark Messier!"
"You're Dan!"
"Hey, nacho?"
"Hey sure! :D" *cue end commercial*

yea, I catch them when I see the new york area teams on center ice.

His cold fx ads are lame too,. I just hate looking at his face.