At 10/7/11 02:49 AM, aviewaskewed wrote: No, no, no, no, NO! I have heard that is 100% not even on the table right now. I've heard Punk is definitely in a top singles match with the belt involved...and if the stars align right his opponent could be something truly amazing...a real crossover star...an ayatollah if you will...

If Chris Jericho does return to WWE I am hoping he comes back with a fresh gimmick and has improved a lot in the ring. 2010 was easily the worst year of Jericho's WWE career.

At 10/7/11 02:08 PM, HeartbreakHoldout wrote: But we'll probably have to wait until like the Rumble to see if that comes to fruition.

Sometime between now and the Rumble you'll see phase 1 of Punk's Mania match set. But yeah, probably going to be the Rumble or a little later before we cement who he'll face. But I've heard it's 100% going to be a top match, and the title will be involved. They definitely see Punk as one of their guys now.

At 10/7/11 09:31 PM, aviewaskewed wrote: They definitely see Punk as one of their guys now.

Well, he ships about as much merchandise as Cena now, which is pretty impressive.

Speaking of Punk here is a really good interview he just did while in Australia for the Nickelodeon Awards. He discusses what he loves about the business, its past and future, and his love of ice cream.

At 10/7/11 06:32 PM, mothballs wrote: I want to fuck Beth Phoenix so bad omg

I would let her step on my body so long as I could masturbate after.

At 10/7/11 09:31 PM, aviewaskewed wrote:

At 10/7/11 02:08 PM, HeartbreakHoldout wrote: But we'll probably have to wait until like the Rumble to see if that comes to fruition.

Sometime between now and the Rumble you'll see phase 1 of Punk's Mania match set. But yeah, probably going to be the Rumble or a little later before we cement who he'll face. But I've heard it's 100% going to be a top match, and the title will be involved. They definitely see Punk as one of their guys now.

I would thoroughly shit my pants if Punk wasnt headlining WM this year. As for who he's going against, I'd have said it'd probably be Cena. Although, cause he's got his match against the Rock, which is supposedly for the WWE championship.

Also, probably a bit early to wonder about this, but i'll admit that i'm curious about whether or not the Undertaker will go for 20-0 or if he'll even have a match this year.

At 10/8/11 03:40 PM, Porkchop wrote: I would thoroughly shit my pants if Punk wasnt headlining WM this year. As for who he's going against, I'd have said it'd probably be Cena.

We've seen Punk vs Cena about 14,000 times recently, getting a bit over it.
I was hoping that Punk vs Austin would eventuate for wrestlemania, doesn't look like it is happening though. There is still time. That would be huge.
Cena vs Rock and Punk vs Austin.
Huge.

I hope that they do an nWo type angle with R-Truth, Miz, and Nash. Maybe with laurinitis involved somehow as well.

I apologize for the tardiness around here; preoccupation and my own lazy ass as usual.

These last several weeks have been AWESOME. It's been some ungodly while since 'compelling' could be used to describe a storyline, but they have pulled it off. While it's been obvious for a while now that Laryngitis is responsible for Trips' predicament, there's still been a shitload of twists & turns to keep one on the edge of one's seat. This whole story puts the entire whole of the franchise - not just Trips - center stage.

As far as how RAW ended, avie & I will have to agree to disagree, here. It sets up a major situation that has lots of potential behind it.

I get the feeling that Punk and/or Cena will try to form their own group akin to Del Rio's group, to try and save RAW and/or help Trips uncover who's actually behind the conspiracy.

Regarding Henry, regardless of why he's holding the title, it's clear that he could've easily been a title holder quite some time ago, and his performance of late proves that. This just proves to me how much booking plays into the careers of the talent. In the short time he's been on this roll, he's become both this century's best monster heel & its 2nd best giant. (Feel free to bitch & moan that I'm wrong about that, but that's the way I see it.) That should never be the case; if he had that much potential waiting over a FIFTEEN YEAR SPAN, why should it only get utilized at the end of his run? That's just wasting a career.

I'm enjoying the hell out of the 'Dueling Sin Caras' feud. The only thing that had annoyed me at first is that everyone was acting like they were almost twins, when the now 'Negro' one is both taller and more muscular than the 'Azul' one. Plain as dias. *shot*

Good god, Laryngitis was a wrestler once? Never would have guessed that in a gazillion years.

At 10/3/11 12:28 AM, aviewaskewed wrote: Good Closing angle, idiotic Cell finish on the RAW side. It also seems completely counter productive to what I understand their plans to be...but then again, they've probably decided to change them again (especially since they leaked to the net).

Que?

At 10/7/11 02:49 AM, aviewaskewed wrote: I've heard Punk is definitely in a top singles match with the belt involved...and if the stars align right his opponent could be something truly amazing...a real crossover star...an ayatollah if you will...

O_O

FUCKING. YES. PLEASE.

It makes sense; Punk has stolen Jericho's tagline of "Best In The World", and now he wants to face Punk for the rights to use it, in what would be nothing short of epic.

Btw, I feel like a loser for not having any Punk merch at this point........good thing I have a b-day next month. :P
At 10/8/11 12:24 PM, boloneyman wrote: Speaking of Punk here is a really good interview he just did while in Australia for the Nickelodeon Awards. He discusses what he loves about the business, its past and future, and his love of ice cream.

Holy shit, HE'S ALREADY DESIGNED THE FRIGGING ICE CREAM BAR OF HIMSELF! That's awesome. I 100% agree - who the fuck doesn't like ice cream?

Anyway, great interview; they had an actual intelligent interviewer doing it, too - which is more than I can say for most non-pundit ones nowadays.

At 10/7/11 06:56 PM, LordKooler wrote:

At 10/7/11 02:49 AM, aviewaskewed wrote: No, no, no, no, NO! I have heard that is 100% not even on the table right now. I've heard Punk is definitely in a top singles match with the belt involved...and if the stars align right his opponent could be something truly amazing...a real crossover star...an ayatollah if you will...

Punk vs. Jericho would be awesome! But in all fairness I'd be happy to see Jericho back in the ring reguardless of who he would be against. Same goes for Punk too in terms of he tends to have good to great matches with nearly anyone he gets into the ring with. I saw someone mentioned Punk vs. Austin which would be fun to watch but I'm not sure how that would be helpful to Punks character since he said he was a fan of Steve and all. Plus you know they wouldn't have Austin lose. No way. But if you put Punk and Jericho together they could put on one hell of a show.

If Chris Jericho does return to WWE I am hoping he comes back with a fresh gimmick and has improved a lot in the ring. 2010 was easily the worst year of Jericho's WWE career.

I can't agree with you 100% there man. The gimmick worked on many levels. He made himself the anti-Jericho by not being charismatic and toned himself down to make people hate him. His quality of matches were still great and he was part of some good fueds. Granted he lost to DX at every turn but you can't blame that on him.

Just finished watching Smackdown last night. Show vs Henry as a main event? Sorry, but even with the roll Henry has been on, that sounds awful. Their match at MITB was ok, not bad, but no where near main event caliber.

Will Jericho ever return? I miss him calling all the fans troglodytes.

So, i've never seen anything with Jericho in it. Can anyone recommend me some good viewing?

At 10/9/11 10:58 PM, Porkchop wrote: So, i've never seen anything with Jericho in it. Can anyone recommend me some good viewing?

Breaking The Code: Behind the Wall of Chris Jericho. Great documentary and match selection there.

Henry vs. Show is a place holder feud, no more, no less. Obviously they're continuing to build up Sheamus for a match down the line, and we've done Orton three times now, so unless he were to be getting the belt back (which would be dumb) why keep putting him in there to lose? Show makes a ton of sense for Henry to be facing at a minor PPV like Vengeance.

At 10/9/11 10:13 AM, Outlaw88 wrote: I can't agree with you 100% there man. The gimmick worked on many levels. He made himself the anti-Jericho by not being charismatic and toned himself down to make people hate him. His quality of matches were still great and he was part of some good fueds. Granted he lost to DX at every turn but you can't blame that on him.

The "Serious Jericho" gimmick had gotten stale around the time he left. His promos were the most stale promos in 2010 WWE because he had been cutting the same promo since turning heel in 2008.

At 10/10/11 07:09 PM, LordKooler wrote: The "Serious Jericho" gimmick had gotten stale around the time he left.

I disagree. I think it started to become a little routine and repetitive, and he very smartly realized it was time to go away again and I'm sure when he's back he'll have reinvented himself once again.

His promos were the most stale promos in 2010 WWE because he had been cutting the same promo since turning heel in 2008.

Again, I disagree. I thought Jericho had a very good grasp on his character and what he wanted it to be, I thought he always did a good job of having a familiar style, but tailoring things to the feud he was currently in. You can't get me to say a bad word about Jericho after that heel turn...before hand sure...but after he was easily one of the best characters in the company and the kind of talent they have precious few of in this day and age.

At 10/10/11 10:20 PM, aviewaskewed wrote: Again, I disagree. I thought Jericho had a very good grasp on his character and what he wanted it to be, I thought he always did a good job of having a familiar style, but tailoring things to the feud he was currently in. You can't get me to say a bad word about Jericho after that heel turn...before hand sure...but after he was easily one of the best characters in the company and the kind of talent they have precious few of in this day and age.

I thought the promos that Rey Mysterio cut during his feud against CM Punk from 2010 were more interesting than any Chris Jericho promo or segment that year.

One more thing, I meant to say that Jericho started recycling his promos after the HBK feud ended.

What the fuck is this I dont even.

On a related note, I didnt see the events of tonight's raw coming. Not even a little bit.

I think now would be a great time to set up John Cena as a heel. Finally forget about this noise with him as the WWE champ until he needs to be it for the match at WM. Cause supposedly it's for the WWE Championship.

The rock is apparently already billed for a match at Survivor Series. If Cena were to lose, he could make a perfect heel turn at Survivor Series.

At 10/10/11 11:40 PM, Porkchop wrote: I think now would be a great time to set up John Cena as a heel. Finally forget about this noise with him as the WWE champ until he needs to be it for the match at WM. Cause supposedly it's for the WWE Championship.

There's too much money in Cena from merch sales to turn him heel. I know the smarks want it, but as long as he sells the most merch when the company isn't hot, he'll be kept in a babyface position so he does so. Also I guarantee the WM match is not for the belt, that's just something Cena said in character, that should NOT be seen as WWE announcing their direction that far in advance.

The rock is apparently already billed for a match at Survivor Series.

He'll be on a traditional team with Cena.

If Cena were to lose, he could make a perfect heel turn at Survivor Series.

Except he won't. Not even worth speculating.

RAW was a very mixed bag for me. I liked most of the opening...I didn't love Triple H running down all the guys who walked out, but then I didn't love the idea of the walk out to begin with because it's one thing for announcers and referees and camera people who don't wrestle and thus don't need to look tough to walk out. But for talents to walk out, especially babyface talent, it just hurts their cred to start with. Then hurts it even more to have top guys like H, Punk, Cena, and Sheamus call them pussies and losers for walking out. Ace as GM? Yawn, it's going to be boring Johnny playing the the predictable heel GM role...I just hope it doesn't last for too long. Vince? Wasn't the whole point of this that Vince was stripped of "day to day" duties and basically retired because of the Punk fiasco? How can Johnny Ace book his boss into a match? H isn't in "control" of RAW anymore, but he's still COO, not just contracted talent. I like the idea of Rhodes and Orton feuding, especially if Orton puts over Rhodes a bit and it isn't just a case of giving Orton someone to beat until he gets back into the World Title picture. I don't love yet another John Cena title match, but it does make sense since they have to stay consistent with the "lose the title, get a rematch" rule. Punk had his rematch in HIAC, so technically he has to "earn" another. My prediction would be that Punk earns it by TLC as I think the right call is to pull shenanigans in the Vengeance match as a springboard to Cena, Rock, Punk, and H (bring back names! Call them "The Fox Hole Buddies" 4TW!) vs. Truth, Miz, Christian, and probably Otunga at SS. I'd say Del Rio but that would make no sense really unless they do a segment somewhere in the next two weeks where he makes peace with Miz and Truth. Probably that happens and the Otunga spot goes to Del Rio. Guess Otunga is Ace's stooge now? Fine by me, he's a shit worker, so keep him out of the ring. Poor McGuillicutty though huh?

Overall, it's the ground floor for whatever stage 2 of this grand angle they have going is...still not hooked, still not loving it. Glad some of you are...me I just want the belt back on Punk and the shows to go back to more like what they were prior to Summerslam personally. That's when it was genuinely intriguing for me.

Well that was interesting, I honestly can't tell if I hated RAW yesterday or not.

Meh, I think the WWE should really fix the Rematch Clause. Or just drop it entirely. I mean, we keep seeing the same 3 people be the WWE champ and it's honestly pretty old to see John Cena in a feud with whoever over the belt or whoever's the champ get in a feud with John Cena.

At 10/11/11 10:51 AM, Porkchop wrote: Meh, I think the WWE should really fix the Rematch Clause. Or just drop it entirely. I mean, we keep seeing the same 3 people be the WWE champ and it's honestly pretty old to see John Cena in a feud with whoever over the belt or whoever's the champ get in a feud with John Cena.

The only thing that needs to be fixed is that they only let the same two or three guys have the belt because they keep flipping the title between them so often, or coming up with excuses for them to have like 20 matches in a row. It's creative that and their booking crutches that need to be fixed, not this old rule that used to work perfectly fine till the current regime.

At 10/10/11 11:40 PM, Porkchop wrote: I think now would be a great time to set up John Cena as a heel. Finally forget about this noise with him as the WWE champ until he needs to be it for the match at WM. Cause supposedly it's for the WWE Championship.

The rock is apparently already billed for a match at Survivor Series. If Cena were to lose, he could make a perfect heel turn at Survivor Series.

Nah, Vince won't turn his money tree heel as there are too many little kids who are obssessed with their superhero.
To be honest with you, I think that there is a better chance of the Rock turning heel than Cena does.

At 10/12/11 12:01 PM, Dream-of-Duke wrote:

At 10/10/11 11:40 PM, Porkchop wrote: I think now would be a great time to set up John Cena as a heel. Finally forget about this noise with him as the WWE champ until he needs to be it for the match at WM. Cause supposedly it's for the WWE Championship.

The rock is apparently already billed for a match at Survivor Series. If Cena were to lose, he could make a perfect heel turn at Survivor Series.

Nah, Vince won't turn his money tree heel as there are too many little kids who are obssessed with their superhero.
To be honest with you, I think that there is a better chance of the Rock turning heel than Cena does.

Well, I reckon Punk's putting out a good amount of merch and he's hardly a face. I mean, I understand not turning him heel is bad for business as far as Cena's concerned, but the way I reckon it, the best time for that is at Survivor series. Whether or not it's likely to happen or what have you is a completely different ballgame.

And yeah, there is a better chance of the Rock going heel, considering it was his character for a good amount of time, but I could only see them doing that if he was going to be a bit more of a major role in Raw up until WM28.

Hmmmmm.........

While avie wasn't thrilled with last week's RAW, I liked the idea, as I already stated. I didn't see the roster as breaking character; I saw a bunch of employees aggravated at the way things were going.

Now, I liked the BEGINNING of this week's, as it went how I'd hoped, and mostly as the commercials suggested (more on that later) - a few top guys saying how stupid this is when the whole business has always thrived MORE on this sort of thing, and they should actually be used to it by now, and that they only serve to screw the business over.

What happened after that, after some deliberation & the initial shock value of it wore off (and I put on my logic glasses), is what I'm annoyed with. I expected to, over the following weeks, see the 'Fox Hole Gang' get several of those protesters to 'cross the picket line', while Trips & Punk come to an understanding & work on uncovering Laryngitis' little plan to overthrow him, and thwart it before he gets to succeed at it. While the Trips/Punk alliance HAS begun, the rest was a clusterfuck.

Avie's already mentioned the inconsistency issue with him apparently still being the COO, but still being able to be booked in a match by someone he should STILL have power over - in which case.....wouldn't he still have control over RAW anyway THROUGH Laryngitis? Not to mention that Trips had never been referred to having GM duty up until that night.

The issue I'd like to touch on, though, is how the hell can The Awesome Truth get rehired, and the refs seemingly be like 'water under the bridge' about it, WHEN THEY WERE ONE OF THE MAJOR FUCKING SOURCES OF CONTENTION REGARDING THE WHOLE WALKOUT IN THE FIRST PLACE? Once you realize that, all logic in this situation becomes obsolete.

In short, this week wasted all potential last week created. >:( Well, at least I can take solace in that, regardless, Punk has become the top dog of the company. Uh, Cena, I still like ya, but he wants that torch now.....

Whoops, forgot to add the point to that "more on that later" part: The prior commercials were a giant troll; they stated that Trips knew Orton & Show, in addition to the three that did show up, were going to be there; then they make it look like he had no idea who was going to show up anyway, and Show was nowhere to be found the whole night. The hell?

So, were those commercials made early, then plans were changed afterwards, but it was too late to edit those commercials? Because that's the only way that makes any sense.

At 10/12/11 11:31 PM, Swackman wrote: While avie wasn't thrilled with last week's RAW, I liked the idea, as I already stated. I didn't see the roster as breaking character; I saw a bunch of employees aggravated at the way things were going.

I'm not bitching about anybody "breaking character". I'm bitching about a bunch of guys who fight for a living, who are supposed to be bad asses. Saying "duh, we get beat up every week and crazy shit happens here...we don't want to deal with that anymore". It makes them look bad and ridiculous. Especially when you have 4 top guys in the ring (and H being a legend) calling them pussies and saying they're doing the wrong thing just makes it worse. WWE wrestlers aren't your standard employee. To say a wrestling show can ever be a "safe working environment" just sounds insanely dumb. It's one thing when it's refs bitching at getting thrown around or treated badly, or camera people...but to include wrestlers? Uh uh, no friggin way.

Now, I liked the BEGINNING of this week's, as it went how I'd hoped, and mostly as the commercials suggested (more on that later) - a few top guys saying how stupid this is when the whole business has always thrived MORE on this sort of thing, and they should actually be used to it by now, and that they only serve to screw the business over.

Punk was funny, the rest of that segment sucked and just buried people. But WWE doesn't seem to understand (or maybe they just don't care) that that's what they do with this sort of thing.

What happened after that, after some deliberation & the initial shock value of it wore off (and I put on my logic glasses), is what I'm annoyed with. I expected to, over the following weeks, see the 'Fox Hole Gang' get several of those protesters to 'cross the picket line', while Trips & Punk come to an understanding & work on uncovering Laryngitis' little plan to overthrow him, and thwart it before he gets to succeed at it. While the Trips/Punk alliance HAS begun, the rest was a clusterfuck.

That would require long term planning, and logic, and taking your time with the story telling...and oh hell no, we don't do that in WWE! Everything has to be on fast forward! Part of the problem too is when you have "the whole roster" walk out, instead of say just the heels or something, you're FORCED to do things on fast forward because you can't have two hours of dead air or one or two matches.

Avie's already mentioned the inconsistency issue with him apparently still being the COO, but still being able to be booked in a match by someone he should STILL have power over - in which case.....wouldn't he still have control over RAW anyway THROUGH Laryngitis? Not to mention that Trips had never been referred to having GM duty up until that night.

Mmmm hmmm. It makes no sense to say H is still Laryngitis's boss, but when it comes to RAW H can be booked into matches and can't just go "you know what John? You're friggin fired, I'll take my chances with the board". Vince has done that sort of crap a million times, where he appoints a GM, but then goes on the show and does whatever he wants, and either the GM is a heel who sucks his balls and tells him how great that idea is, or it's a babyface who rings their hands and looks all worried about how powerless they are.

The issue I'd like to touch on, though, is how the hell can The Awesome Truth get rehired, and the refs seemingly be like 'water under the bridge' about it, WHEN THEY WERE ONE OF THE MAJOR FUCKING SOURCES OF CONTENTION REGARDING THE WHOLE WALKOUT IN THE FIRST PLACE? Once you realize that, all logic in this situation becomes obsolete.

Uh huh. Especially consider they were fired. Them hopping the rail at HIAC should be then in storyline considered like fans hopping the rail. You just rewarded two guys who committed assault on contracted talent and yeah, caused this walk out, with their damn jobs back. Also, if you're the board, and you remove Triple H because of nonsense like that, you HAVE to remove Laryngitis because he brought them back.

In short, this week wasted all potential last week created. >:( Well, at least I can take solace in that, regardless, Punk has become the top dog of the company. Uh, Cena, I still like ya, but he wants that torch now.....

I don't see Punk "taking the torch" I see Punk at best for them turning him into number 2 face. He'll hopefully get to that role that Randy Orton was into before he became part of that Super Friends thing with Cena. Also the ratings show you weren't alone in that thinking as you got a massive drop between hour 1 and 2. But sadly I can't even believe for a second that's going to make WWE stop this horrible direction and hot shot to the end so we get to some kind of new direction.

Also, if you look at the smackdown ratings every time Orton is Champion ratings drop, every time he isn't ratings go up... Because Orton is just plain shit. the audience knows this.

Also, the IWC never changes

http://www.wrestlingforum.com/general-ww e/565886-attitude-era-iwc-usenet-posts-b ack-archives.html

At 10/13/11 07:58 AM, MattTheParanoidKat wrote: Also, if you look at the smackdown ratings every time Orton is Champion ratings drop, every time he isn't ratings go up... Because Orton is just plain shit. the audience knows this.

It's just because it's something new.

NEW IS GOOD.

At 10/14/11 04:05 AM, Ryanson wrote: It's just because it's something new.

I tend to agree. Orton is being pushed as the new Cena. I know folks who were big, big Randy Orton fans, who now can't stand him because they see him as just another flavor of John Cena. Just another flavor of the prototypical WWE babyface. That I think is the problem much more then Orton himself, because certainly that character was interesting to at least some of the audience at one time, but now thanks to the way he's booked, and the direction he's gone in...it's over.

NEW IS GOOD.

I agree. The fans are dying for new, and for innovation, the ratings bear that out every time WWE pulls the trigger on a new direction...and then when they swap it out for the same ol' same ol' they drop back down. There's a message in that, but they refuse to hear it.