ECW is the C show. There is no way that Vince is going to truly push a guy (Punk) who came from the C show. He should be thankful that Jeff fucked himself up. Do you really think that Punk would have won the MITB ladder match if Jeff did not mess up? No.

CM Punk is straight edge, he doesn't do drugs, or drink. With all the scandals in recent years involving champions and drugs, CM Punk is a solid wrestler and has no risk. That is the policy point of view. He is a great performer, fans love him, and he can energize the crowd.

Give the guy a break. What does he do that makes you consider him a bad wrestler?

At 11/6/08 07:40 PM, boloneyman wrote: Give the guy a break. What does he do that makes you consider him a bad wrestler?

I never said that he was a bad wrestler. He will never get a push that Orton/HHH/Cena/Batista have got, that is pretty clear.

At 11/6/08 08:01 PM, Dream-of-Duke wrote:

At 11/6/08 07:40 PM, boloneyman wrote: Give the guy a break. What does he do that makes you consider him a bad wrestler?

I never said that he was a bad wrestler. He will never get a push that Orton/HHH/Cena/Batista have got, that is pretty clear.

Oh, I was responding to Shaun actually. I do agree with what you said though. I don't think it is totally hopless that he will never get a strong push though, just unlikely.

At 11/6/08 06:31 AM, Shaun wrote: They aren't trying to book punk as a top guy brcause he isn't a top guy.

But my point has not been "give him the belt now and let him reign for 5 years" my point has been BUILD HIM! Did you read my post way back when he won money in the bank and what I thought should be done with him? I laid out a long program in which Punk would have been sent to SD!, turned heel, teamed with Edge, they would work together for months with Punk booked as a strong mid-card attraction working to break out to the main event. Punk would then slowly be turned face, and he'd challenge Edge for the belt at WM next year. Does that sound like me having an unrealistic view of Punk? Does that sound like I'm saying he's a top guy right now? I ACKNOWLEDGE he isn't a top guy now, and he needs to be built to that position, if he'll ever get there. But I don't think WWE is giving him a real CHANCE to do so. He's got an ECW title reign to his credit ONLY because John Morrison got caught in a drug scandal, before that he was beaten by Morrison at least 10 to 20 times as they recycled those 2 wrestling over and over for months on ECW TV and PPV. Those were also jobs done clean as a whistle, which devalues Punk. I believe he's a POTENTIAL top guy, maybe I'm wrong, but can we really know if he isn't given a chance?

He is midcard averagness.

Disagree, he is a good promo, the fans are behind him, he has had solid to very very good matches including with top stars like Batista, that is not mid-card averageness.

I don't know why you get all worked up about him.

Because I have watched Punk in shoot interviews and he impresses me as a very real person living his dream, with a tremendous mind for the business and I like a lot of his ideas and his approach. Also because I've seen the work he did in ROH with Raven and Colt Cabana and his mentor Ace Steel. You haven't really seen what Punk is capable of if you've only seen him in WWE. If you have any interest, I highly recommend going over to rohwrestling.com, buy a best of CM Punk DVD, and if you do that, watch it end to end, and still tell me "avie, I don't see it, I think he's overrated" I'll disagree, but I'll respect your opinion. But right now I feel like your basing your assessment on the faulty evidence that has been provided by WWE, which is not Punk at anywhere near his best or most pushed and utilized. I don't think you can judge a guy if he isn't really being utilized.

Fair enough avie, but until I see it.. I don't rate him.
haha.

As for smackdown, it was sooo good.
hardy is awesome, i love all the aggression. Even if it only does get him to another loss to HHH.

How funny were Morrison's glitter abs, can that tag team get any more homosexual? Probably.

The taker/Kozlov match was good to.

Entertaining show.

Heh. Glitter abs. I thought he just did that for halloween. Come on Morrison, the roadkill coat is enough, you don't need to add glitter to your outfit.

I find it kinda weird how the argument over how good Punk is has gone on for so long. This must be why WWE doesn't push him, some fans can't make up their mind.

I'm looking forward to see why Shaun says the Taker/Kozlov match is good. We haven't really seen what Kozlov can do since all his matches have been beating up jobbers so far.

At 11/7/08 08:43 AM, Outlaw88 wrote: I'm looking forward to see why Shaun says the Taker/Kozlov match is good. We haven't really seen what Kozlov can do since all his matches have been beating up jobbers so far.

It was nothing special, it was just a contest.
I'm sure if given the chance those two could have a great PPV match in the future.

At 11/7/08 07:40 AM, Shaun wrote: As for smackdown, it was sooo good.
hardy is awesome, i love all the aggression. Even if it only does get him to another loss to HHH.

Are they really trying to turn Jeff heel? From what I read, he hit The Undertaker with the chair.
Jeff has been the most popular guy in the company despite the fact that he has dropped the ball in multiple occations. I am not too sure if the plan will work out if they decide to turn him heel.

Don't know if you guys know this, because I haven't seen it mentioned here at all. But WWE released three talents as part of cutting costs:

Paul London
Chuck Palumbo
Super Crazy

They took a real beating this quarter so it wouldn't surprise me if this was only the beginning

At 11/7/08 11:47 AM, Dream-of-Duke wrote:

At 11/7/08 07:40 AM, Shaun wrote: As for smackdown, it was sooo good.
hardy is awesome, i love all the aggression. Even if it only does get him to another loss to HHH.

Are they really trying to turn Jeff heel? From what I read, he hit The Undertaker with the chair.
Jeff has been the most popular guy in the company despite the fact that he has dropped the ball in multiple occations. I am not too sure if the plan will work out if they decide to turn him heel.

Being popular doesn't mean you can't be a heel.
HHH is an awesome heel despite mass popularity.
Same for the undertaker.

There is no reason he can't go around hitting people with chairs and not still be popular at the same time.

At 11/7/08 06:04 PM, Shaun wrote: There is no reason he can't go around hitting people with chairs and not still be popular at the same time.

No, but the idea of being a heel is you want people to hate you, pay money to hate you and see you get beat, but they need to boo and hate you, else your a face. The argument here is people won't want to hate Hardy, they won't care that he's being dastardly and he'll be a jerky babyface. Like when Eddie and Chavo's heels that cheat gimmick wound up making them face. Although in this case I don't think Hardy could really turn the fans against him.

Didn't the WWE try to turn Jeff heel once before? I recall it didn't work at all. In speaking of Jeff, I'm looking forward to that match with the Undetaker. I watched the ladder match they had yesterday, and it is still one of my all time favorites. The two of them have only gotten better since then, so hopefully it should be a great match.

Does anyone know when Kennedy and Umaga are scheduled to return?

At 11/8/08 01:22 AM, aviewaskewed wrote:

At 11/7/08 06:04 PM, Shaun wrote: There is no reason he can't go around hitting people with chairs and not still be popular at the same time.

No, but the idea of being a heel is you want people to hate you, pay money to hate you and see you get beat, but they need to boo and hate you, else your a face. The argument here is people won't want to hate Hardy, they won't care that he's being dastardly and he'll be a jerky babyface. Like when Eddie and Chavo's heels that cheat gimmick wound up making them face. Although in this case I don't think Hardy could really turn the fans against him.

I know what you mean and I agree.
BUT I would still pay to see hardy be a bad guy.
Especially one that wins.
I know heels are supposed to lose in the end and thats what wrestling drama is based on but still, I like it.
I like the determination to get what he wants, whatever way he has to do it.

I mean demanding a match against the undertaker, who does that?
Actually these days everyone seems to do that; big show, kozlov and now hardy.
Only JBL is afraid of him?

I'm not suprised at all that London got released. They didn't do anything with him once his tag title run was up. That and he was the "doghouse" in terms of his popularity backstage for a very long time. As for Palumbo I called that not long ago.

Know what would truly shock me? If they fired Funaki. That guy has been there for such a long time that if he were to be let go it would be signficant to me.

At 11/8/08 11:41 AM, Outlaw88 wrote: Know what would truly shock me? If they fired Funaki. That guy has been there for such a long time that if he were to be let go it would be signficant to me.

They seem to be trying to make him popular again as if they will actually be using him again.
The whole kung fu thing.
It's pretty lame and I am suprised he wasn't released a long time ago.

I think all the "lesser" wrestlers just need to be used better in general.
At the moment you know as soon as one of them comes out they are just going to squashed by one of the main wrestlers.
i.e. whoever faced matt hardy on ecw this week.

I guess they wrestle more in dark matches, house shows, untelevised events but what we see of them doesn't do them any favors.

At 11/8/08 11:22 AM, boloneyman wrote: Didn't the WWE try to turn Jeff heel once before? I recall it didn't work at all. In speaking of Jeff, I'm looking forward to that match with the Undetaker. I watched the ladder match they had yesterday, and it is still one of my all time favorites. The two of them have only gotten better since then, so hopefully it should be a great match.

I agree with avie. If you are a heel, you are supposed to make the fans hate you and enjoy when you take a beating. I do not think that Jeff is capable of doing that. As for his match against The Undertaker, he has no chance to win. The Undertaker has been booked above anyone since his debut and there is no reason that they will make him job to Jeff who they cannot rely on. I see that Jeff takes a downward spin from this point, and he has only himself to blame.

Does anyone know when Kennedy and Umaga are scheduled to return?

At 11/8/08 04:01 PM, Dream-of-Duke wrote:

I agree with avie. If you are a heel, you are supposed to make the fans hate you and enjoy when you take a beating. I do not think that Jeff is capable of doing that. As for his match against The Undertaker, he has no chance to win. The Undertaker has been booked above anyone since his debut and there is no reason that they will make him job to Jeff who they cannot rely on. I see that Jeff takes a downward spin from this point, and he has only himself to blame.

Yeah I meant they both have gotten better when it comes to thrilling a crowd, and hopefully they can make another memorable match with the extreme rules. The only eay Jeff will win would be Big Show coming out and helping him, which I think is likely.

On second thought, I don't think this match will be as good as the last. Back then jeff was booked as the underdog which really was the selling point I think. It won't have the same effect with Jeff as a tweener. I'm sick of the "I can't win the title so I'll go heel" angle.

When was the last time someone tapped out in the WWE?

There doesn't seem to be any one who really uses submissions any more.
I miss the days of great submission matches with the likes of Angle and Guerrero.

At 11/8/08 07:24 PM, Shaun wrote: When was the last time someone tapped out in the WWE?

Like a few weeks ago?

There doesn't seem to be any one who really uses submissions any more.
I miss the days of great submission matches with the likes of Angle and Guerrero.

What are you talking about? Many wrestlers still use submissions as their finishers. For example: the WWE recently named the Undertaker's triangle lock Devil's Triangle.

At 11/8/08 09:42 PM, Dream-of-Duke wrote: What are you talking about? Many wrestlers still use submissions as their finishers. For example: the WWE recently named the Undertaker's triangle lock Devil's Triangle.

Yeah, but it isn't so much a tap out move as a choke on blood and pass out move.

Jericho doesn't even seem to use the walls of Jericho any more.
Maybe if when cena comes back he might attempt an stfu or two.

At 11/8/08 07:24 PM, Shaun wrote: When was the last time someone tapped out in the WWE?

There doesn't seem to be any one who really uses submissions any more.
I miss the days of great submission matches with the likes of Angle and Guerrero.

Yeah, I think the last guy to really do so was Punk, and they made him stop. It's probably some stupid mandate where they think having anyone tap or submit destroys their character. Which is patently ridiculous and when booked correctly is a great tool to be used in building drama and characters. Think where Steve Austin might be today if not for that submission match with Bret Hart. That sharpshooter cemented and made his ass.

Honestly, if that is what happened it's a symptom of this idea that too many guys really believe that getting beat in a straight up manner, and submitting, is going to kill them off. That's just ridiculous, even the legends of the past dropped matches occasionally. It's all in how the loss is booked and the strength of the losing character going in. Not to mention what you do after. But then again when you work for a company that is obsessed with the protection of a small group at the peril of everyone else, I can see where wins and losses start to matter more and more as your character and marketibility get trampled.

Any of ya see the E! True Hollywood Story about Hogan? It was actually pretty entertaining. Bischoff is quite good at these candid interviews about the past, ever since I heard him on the Monday Night Wars DVD I have always looked foward to hearing him tell stories about the past. They did a pretty fair and even handed portrayal of the Hulkster, and its a good watch if any of you have a chance to catch it when it comes on again.

At 11/8/08 10:00 PM, Shaun wrote: Yeah, but it isn't so much a tap out move as a choke on blood and pass out move.

Taker would only "let it go" after his opponents tap out. Didn't you say Edge tap like crazy at WM 24?

Jericho doesn't even seem to use the walls of Jericho any more.
Maybe if when cena comes back he might attempt an stfu or two.

Y2J still uses the submission move, but nobody is tapping out because he is a heel, and he is not make the babyfaces tap out.

At 11/9/08 12:43 PM, Dream-of-Duke wrote: Y2J still uses the submission move, but nobody is tapping out because he is a heel, and he is not make the babyfaces tap out.

Jericho understands the psychology of being a heel... to look weak and spiteful and cheating. He is IMHO one of the best there is when it comes to being a heel, him and Santino.

Did any of you catch The ICP and Scott Hall at the TNA PPV tonight? Im hoping they are part of the company now, I love Scott Hall and ICP actually have wrestling skills. It ought to make for good TV, ESPECIALLY w/ the JwO as heels.

At 11/9/08 02:30 AM, PantyWipe wrote: Any of ya see the E! True Hollywood Story about Hogan? It was actually pretty entertaining. Bischoff is quite good at these candid interviews about the past, ever since I heard him on the Monday Night Wars DVD I have always looked foward to hearing him tell stories about the past. They did a pretty fair and even handed portrayal of the Hulkster, and its a good watch if any of you have a chance to catch it when it comes on again.

You just have to remember that Uncle Eric likes to sugercoat certain aspects of his past.

Scott Hall working on a regular basis? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Oh wait...you were serious...

At 11/10/08 01:26 AM, aviewaskewed wrote: You just have to remember that Uncle Eric likes to sugercoat certain aspects of his past.

Scott Hall working on a regular basis? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Oh wait...you were serious...

hey, never say never in the wrestling biz. the guys a great wrestler and if hall were to try and pull some strings, you never know...

I meant in my last post "if NASH were to pull some strings..."

When Cena wins the title on raw, will it spin?