That's just a hassle. Nobody would want to, plus it defeats the purpose of this being a Reg Lounge on the BBS.

At 9/27/07 09:20 PM, Radioactive24 wrote: That's just a hassle. Nobody would want to, plus it defeats the purpose of this being a Reg Lounge on the BBS.

naw not really.

Nobody else finds it way too crowded in here??

At 9/27/07 09:21 PM, smallydude wrote: Nobody else finds it way too crowded in here??

I think you have to have a different mentality when you come to this thread. Think of it like a merry go round that is already in motion, you have to sort of run along with it and just jump in as soon as you see a chance. It's not really a thread you follow religiously.. its more of a thread where you rubberneck and if you feel like input you give it otherwise you get out of the way. Its the kind of the thread where topics rise and fall more times than a pubescent erection. Its supposed to be crowded sweaty and smelly in here.. regs rarely shower.

RE: Collabs

Its normally a big no-no to share info that is discussed in private forums but I've had this post of Tom's buggin me in the back of my head ever since he said it months ago. It's an interesting perspective on the collab scene and i think part of the problem for him is he doesnt know that for every 1 awesome collab theres 10 time wasters. Anyway being that it is HIS website I've always been more hesitant to pull the trigger on collab threads. Thoughts?

Tom on collabs: I've always been sad that the collaborative process moved away from the NG forums. The collab-related posts were too spammy for the Flash forum, so threads were getting shut down and everyone was eventualy chased off the site.

What frustrates me is that my big goal for Newgrounds is for talented people to meet, team up and make cool stuff. Collabs introduce people to eachother and give newcomers a launchpad to get some recognition. So while the big goal of Newgrounds is to create more artist collaboration, we chased off all the collaborating artists to another website. That just always felt extremely STUPID to me.

The question is, if we wanted to just bring the collab discussion back to NG, what would it take? Would a single forum section be enough? NGCollabs.com has a whole bunch of sub-forums for different aspects of collabs, but maybe that is overkill. Also, what about moderation? NGCollabs has its own set of mods... Would we want to bring some of them onboard as NG mods?

This is one thing that could be solved by the NG Club system I have in mind, where ngcollabs.newgrounds.com would have it's own hiearchy and its own forum to manage within their own ranks (they would assign the mod staff from members of the club). Plans like this get held back because they are seen as a potential administrative nightmare... But SOME DAY....

At 9/27/07 09:46 PM, Luis wrote:

At 9/27/07 09:21 PM, smallydude wrote: Nobody else finds it way too crowded in here??

I think you have to have a different mentality when you come to this thread. Think of it like a merry go round that is already in motion, you have to sort of run along with it and just jump in as soon as you see a chance. It's not really a thread you follow religiously.. its more of a thread where you rubberneck and if you feel like input you give it otherwise you get out of the way. Its the kind of the thread where topics rise and fall more times than a pubescent erection. Its supposed to be crowded sweaty and smelly in here.. regs rarely shower.

well now i feel like a retard because i sent you a pm asking for your opinion. well, what the heck, if anyone shares my thoughts feel free to pm me first pmers get to be admins and mods if we get enough people

Collabs could have their own section, but wouldn't all hell break loose with every single colalb idea posted and just about none being completed?

A collabs section would be neat, definetly would need the same or stricter rules as we have in place though....

Collabs

The question is, if we wanted to just bring the collab discussion back to NG, what would it take? Would a single forum section be enough? NGCollabs.com has a whole bunch of sub-forums for different aspects of collabs, but maybe that is overkill. Also, what about moderation? NGCollabs has its own set of mods... Would we want to bring some of them onboard as NG mods?

This is one thing that could be solved by the NG Club system I have in mind, where ngcollabs.newgrounds.com would have it's own hiearchy and its own forum to manage within their own ranks (they would assign the mod staff from members of the club). Plans like this get held back because they are seen as a potential administrative nightmare... But SOME DAY....

Yeah, I mean I think that a good section or idea would just be making a Newgrounds Collabs Section from the Forums instead of having it be in the Flash Forums. That would be a pretty good idea and you could just get a whole set of moderators for it, so it wouldn't be like totally overrun and stuff. So does anyone else like this idea. Also, it keeps people here just like Tom said. It doesn't have them totally leave, which is good.

Collab Scene

I think Tom, like Luis said doesn't have the whole picture in mind, and his speech on collabs is very idealistic and sounds great if it were real. The problem we're talking about here is bad collabs, and an excess of them. I think the main thing to concentrate on in a collab is the leader, if the leader is not up to running it or is not experienced enough it is a very bad thing. Collabs are great for beginners and experts to come together and for new comers to get into the scene and get good practice in, if that's how they always worked out.

A collabs forum with it's own set of mods would be an excellent move, they could monitor the collabs a lot better than they are monitored on this forum, plus that would free this forum up for flash help a lot better. It would also show tom's enthusiasm about collaborations. I am pro collab forum.

Collab Scene

At 9/27/07 10:12 PM, Coaly wrote: I think Tom, like Luis said doesn't have the whole picture in mind, and his speech on collabs is very idealistic and sounds great if it were real. The problem we're talking about here is bad collabs, and an excess of them. I think the main thing to concentrate on in a collab is the leader, if the leader is not up to running it or is not experienced enough it is a very bad thing. Collabs are great for beginners and experts to come together and for new comers to get into the scene and get good practice in, if that's how they always worked out.

People have seemed to have lost their understanding of the BBS rules as the redesign came around, and their whole concept of collabs is out of what. I don't really know what is it that made them lose it, but you'll notice that it's almost like freelance and anyone who wants to make a collab can, and usually they go interrupted and end up unfinished, absolutely killed. I don't know if anyone has also noticed such behavior, but I definitely feel like this is how it's been going, and don't remember it having this type of problem before. Of course there were other problems :P, but I just feel as if this is a new one that's arisen.

A collabs forum with it's own set of mods would be an excellent move, they could monitor the collabs a lot better than they are monitored on this forum, plus that would free this forum up for flash help a lot better. It would also show tom's enthusiasm about collaborations. I am pro collab forum.

Yeah, I mean I don't really know what it is that happened to NGCollabs, but I really think that moving a new collab section here onto the Forums is a great idea. It would allow lots of improvement in the collab scene and we wouldn't have to worry about firstly spamming the hell out of the BBS and also there would be much more moderation overseeing the collabs. I don't think though that having the mods from the Flash forum being their mods too is good, because there's so much to watch between the two, and I'm sure the creation of a new Forum Section will have some serious spamming issues, but the mods will be able to regulate how it works pretty well I bet. Luis, you should tell Tom to just kind of watch over the Flash 'Reg' Lounge for the next few days and look through our ideas for what we could do, or he could also create of course create a topic, but just mention to him that we'rediscussing it in here, so that he's aware of our thoughts. Anyone else have any comments about it?

RE: Collab Scene -- too much...

Recently, hell has broken loose on the BBS within collabs. I remember the summer rules that were arranged on the Flash Forum, only aloud to hold two collabs or whatever, something like that. I think we should have more stricter rules on these boards.

Alright, we all know collabs are kinda a start off point for some artists, get them noticed, and they will soon become "better" or so people think. Sometimes, it's just too much. Some beginners start their own collabs and they usually "fail" or just die out with a low-score.

It's a hard subject to discuss, I just kinda think if a Collab Board was added, it'd wreck the whole purpose and soon turn into the "Club and Crews" forum. Way out of hand, and way out of control. There are clubs being made everyday, usually they die. IMO I think if we make a collab board, the same thing will happen. It'll turn into another NGcollabs.com, where it gets out of hand, and soon to be -- it'll die out. Too many collabs will be created, and the good ones will be left behind. You'll just not be able to take collabs seriously anymore.

I just think maybe let's just keep the good collabs in the Flash Forum, and when people come around with low-status collabs, than let em take a shot at it, if they fail, they fail. It's not that big of a hassle. Okay let's say a few threads pop up -- oh well, if they don't show potential. Close them down, if they look like they'll be promising, let them stay. It's rather confusing, I don't know anymore. I just think we may need to make our boundaries a bit more broad.

Eh, my take on the situation. I'm on two different sides. Bleh.

Collabs continued

Maybe if you require the author to show a finished piece in the thread it will make them stay around... seeing as they already have put at leaste some effort in.
And if it's clear that the finished piece they made is of low quality just lock the thread?

I'm still in favor of a strict collab thread.

At 9/27/07 10:47 PM, Rudy wrote: RE: Collab Scene -- too much...
It's a hard subject to discuss, I just kinda think if a Collab Board was added, it'd wreck the whole purpose and soon turn into the "Club and Crews" forum. Way out of hand, and way out of control. There are clubs being made everyday, usually they die. IMO I think if we make a collab board, the same thing will happen. It'll turn into another NGcollabs.com, where it gets out of hand, and soon to be -- it'll die out. Too many collabs will be created, and the good ones will be left behind. You'll just not be able to take collabs seriously anymore.

Creating another forum would have the plus of having collab specific moderation, which would avoid most of the problems there currently are with collabs, most of the problems which you're presenting. I have no idea about ngcollabs, never looked into it much, but a collab forum would be much more concise and much better looked after than ngcollabs and all the collabs started in the flash forum.

At 9/27/07 09:46 PM, Luis wrote: The question is, if we wanted to just bring the collab discussion back to NG, what would it take? Would a single forum section be enough? NGCollabs.com has a whole bunch of sub-forums for different aspects of collabs, but maybe that is overkill. Also, what about moderation? NGCollabs has its own set of mods... Would we want to bring some of them onboard as NG mods?

This is one thing that could be solved by the NG Club system I have in mind, where ngcollabs.newgrounds.com would have it's own hiearchy and its own forum to manage within their own ranks (they would assign the mod staff from members of the club). Plans like this get held back because they are seen as a potential administrative nightmare... But SOME DAY....

Heh. I barely remember that. That's back when I was amod on NGC.NGC is even less active now. I really wish Tom had done something like this, integrating NGC.

I hate this "Hey, everyone can do a collab!" bullshit. It's exactly like Luis said; for every good one, you have ten shit ones. I'm sorry, but I've seen enough fucking Naruto collabs.

I've always agreed with this idea (partly because I wanted o be a mod :3), but it seems more logical than fucking up the BBS. At least there, you could do what you want. Sure, I was the Luis of NGC, and I locked my fair share and gave some criticism, but honestly, it was a haven for beginning animators.

Regardless, this collab thing is getting out of control and something needs to be done about it ASAP.

Insult Generator

awesty gang bangs Starogre's radioactive hentai magazines

lol.

At 9/27/07 XX:XX PM, Everybody wrote: Collabs OMG!!

..::collabs::..

Doesn't anyone remember the summer of 05? Before the collab rules? It was bedlam, absolute chaos with collabs everywhere, collabs by everyone.

There needed to be action and action was taken, and it worked. It worked well. Today it does not work thanks to the forgiving nature of the change to the way BA's are calculated.

Collabs are once again a real problem, a little more controlled than it was, but still annoying and in the way of real issues.

I think a collab forum might be a solution, people who are eager to join something would have a place to go, others who want to start collabs would do so out of the way of this forum. It would be good, it would require new mods who are willing to stay up with 100+ page threads of mostly spam, excitement and in-collab fighting.

I think, that before a new forum is introduced, there needs to be better rules about starting collabs. 3.0+ BA just doesn't work anymore. Maybe collabs, all of them, should have to be approved by someone, some mods or a panel of judges that will decide what collabs can go on and which ones need to be thrown away. It might seem harsh, but so many collabs are doomed to fail and leave the people who made an effort and did something good for it just hanging there holding their dicks.

Just a thought.

At 9/27/07 11:39 PM, BlackmarketKraig wrote: Just a thought.

Hm, a forum may be the solution now I check back at it. But yes, this forum should have new Moderators that will specifically look through the threads and lock/delete the ones that aren't that productive or the ones that get out of control and die.

I also think a whole "under judgment" kinda thing process should be contributed. Maybe the collab threads have to go through a process before exactly making it to the public. I think the threads should be reviewed by various Moderators and Judges to pass up and see if a collab should stay or not. That'd be pretty cool.

I think Tom should take a peek at the Flash Reg Lounge, he'd most likely like our ideas.

hopefully.

On another side NON-collab note:

Reviews and Audio Editing are available now!

I went to my account settings and noticed the gray unclickables were clickable! Woo, share the love! We can finally see our own reviews and look at who responded. As well with editing our Audio submissions now. Yay.

cheers!

Happy b'day to the both of you!

collabs

I dont come here often enough anymore to be irratated by the collabs. So i say leave them be, just so i can watch your agony from afar.

On Collabs and Forum and Portal Spam
Question. Why do we care what state the forum, portal and site in general is like? This place is a free-for-all at best, why SHOULD we lock down collab threads?

Because they're spammy? There's an easy solution to that - don't post in the topics. If you want the forum to look tidy, don't go into a new collab thread, post "You need a 3.0+" and deride the idea. Soon the user will bump it, and bump it, but so long as NO ONE posts in the topic, it'll slip and fall off the forum within a week.

Because crap collabs spam up the portal? Maybe we're getting too attached to an idea of "high standards" that just don't exist here. Sure this site debuts some of the Internet's most awesome Flash movies and games, but at the same time we regularily have the Kitty Crew submitting crap, ten year olds with pirated copies of Flash uploading something they pissed about with for fun (and submitted REGARDLESS of how bad it is, showing that really they just don't care), and the Star Syndicate posting a collab every day. What's five or six more one-song-badly animated collaberated work going into the Portal going to do? Who knows, maybe miracles CAN happen - you wouldn't have expected much from a group containing animators using Flash for less than a year, but hell, we got into Portal History with TSAH...

Some people are getting too attached to thier principles of high quality to realise they don't apply tlo everyone.

At 9/28/07 02:23 AM, citricsquid wrote: Happy birthday mynamewontfitin ;D

Hah, happy birthday to you too. I'm off to my road test now :|

Collab Forum

I like the idea of a separate forum for collab threads. But there definitely needs to be strict rules on who can start a collab and who can't. I think having each thread reviewed by a mod before it is displayed is a nice idea.

At 9/28/07 06:19 AM, mynamewontfitin wrote: Collab Forum

I like the idea of a separate forum for collab threads.

While we're at it, why don't we get a seperate forum for Flash animation discussion (not discussing Flash with your peers, but discussing animations on the portal. Just animations. Not games). And a seperate forum for Actionscript 3.0. Oh and a seperate forum for plugs and demos...

At 9/27/07 11:39 PM, BlackmarketKraig wrote: Doesn't anyone remember the summer of 05? Before the collab rules? It was bedlam, absolute chaos with collabs everywhere, collabs by everyone.

lol, good times! I was actually attempting to make a collab of my own back then. Miserable failure, though, never was submitted.

At 9/28/07 03:47 AM, 23450 wrote: I dont come here often enough anymore to be irratated by the collabs. So i say leave them be, just so i can watch your agony from afar.

I absolutely agree! I've always been one of the few supporters of collabs in this thread. Even though I do spend a lot of time on this site, I am never pissed off by any of the collabs. Some are really fun, and some you can tell will definitely blow - just leave those alone! People are having a fun experience trying to make something with a group, and I appreciate that, even if they suck horrendously at flash.

I mean, you guys put in the BA rule, so now they can't be ABSOLUTE garbage. Can't you just ignore the ones that aren't great? The title can't ignore you - just sitting there harmlessly! And if it does, you take this site too seriously. There's a set or rules, too, so if it's going really badly, a mod can always lock it anyway.

At 9/28/07 06:58 AM, KaynSlamdyke wrote: While we're at it, why don't we get a seperate forum for Flash animation discussion (not discussing Flash with your peers, but discussing animations on the portal. Just animations. Not games). And a seperate forum for Actionscript 3.0. Oh and a seperate forum for plugs and demos...

Flash programming should rather be seperate from animation and stuff. AS3 isn't that big. Unless you want to attract idiots whining about how three by penis plus fridge isn't pi in AS3.

At 9/28/07 06:58 AM, KaynSlamdyke wrote: While we're at it, why don't we get a seperate forum for Flash animation discussion (not discussing Flash with your peers, but discussing animations on the portal. Just animations. Not games). And a seperate forum for Actionscript 3.0. Oh and a seperate forum for plugs and demos...

At 9/28/07 09:09 AM, GustTheASGuy wrote: Flash programming should rather be seperate from animation and stuff. AS3 isn't that big. Unless you want to attract idiots whining about how three by penis plus fridge isn't pi in AS3.

I'm sorry, I appear to have left the sarcasm tags off the end of my last message. My point is if you're going to split the Flash forum up, why stop at collabs? Why not split this community up so much that we isolate ourselves even more than we do from General and ostracise ourselves from each other. Hands up, honestly, everyone who checks the other areas of the BBS out as much as they check in here.

At 9/28/07 07:14 AM, Siggy0501 wrote: I mean, you guys put in the BA rule, so now they can't be ABSOLUTE garbage. Can't you just ignore the ones that aren't great? The title can't ignore you - just sitting there harmlessly!

RE: RE: Collabs

Well... useless collabs arent necessarily sitting there harmlessly. They bring down the morale of people who want to get involved in a collaborative project that someone else is running.

I'm not one to talk because I've had my own fair share of failed collaborative projects ;0

I mean its extremely frusterating to have faith in someones collab and go all out, as time consuming as flash is, and then have bozo over there totally fuck up your work when he puts it all together or even worse, he flat out abandons the project. So in that sense, inexperienced collabs are not harmless they get people frusterated, they waste peoples time, they take up space in the forum. If you look at it that way, then its better to have one person mad at you for locking their collab than 20+ animators who wasted their time on someone who really didnt know what they were getting themselves into.

I think what would might be good is to begin to accumulate a blacklist or something where the users of the forum represent the eyes and ears of the community and we can by word of mouth keep an eye out on people who are notorious for abandoning, or deeply unqualified for making a collaborative project. In a blacklist scenario there would be a thread built to compile lists of 'collab leaders' to steer clear from.. that way mods could check in and look at what names and either lock on sight or atleast have it serve as a warning to people to not get involved with users that are out to waste your time.. if you happen to get on the blacklist, it wouldnt necessarily mean youre barred from making collabs just that you would have to ask for permission before you could make a collab.. this would ensure that people who were known for making bad collabs atleast now have gotten a scrub before being released out in the wild. I dunno just an idea...

Oh. Well I check Programming more. And then it doesn't look like many people from this thread look at anything else.

At 9/28/07 09:26 AM, Luis wrote: Well... useless collabs arent necessarily sitting there harmlessly. They bring down the morale of people who want to get involved in a collaborative project that someone else is running.

It's the risk you take joining up with a collaberation. Especially ones where the only criteria for joining it is posting "I'm in" on the thread. It's a fact of life - just the same as we cancel our own projects or slow ourselves down, some collabs are going to fall apart.

...they waste peoples time, they take up space in the forum. If you look at it that way, then its better to have one person mad at you for locking their collab than 20+ animators who wasted their time on someone who really didnt know what they were getting themselves into.

I can understand this view, and I accept it. But I don't agree with it. Time wasted is such a vague term. Okay, so your stuff doesn't get put in a final production, but it was still practice, and nothing stops you extending the work yourself and doing your own project with your unused collab piece as foundation. And everyone in a collab runs a risk of having thier stuff cut by the director because it's too long or not good enough or the space restrictions kick in. Once again, it's just collabs being different to solo work, and people needing to accept it.

I think what would might be good is to begin to accumulate a blacklist or something where the users of the forum represent the eyes and ears of the community and we can by word of mouth keep an eye out on people who are notorious for abandoning... I dunno just an idea...

Anyone remember abtoons? Man we had fun with him...

Do we really want to become even more vulturelike than we already are here? Are we seriously going to want a thread where people are tallied up for thier crimes of lack of commitment and told "These are infidels, throw rocks at them and don't let them cross your path"?

Because jeez, that'd suck. If only because I know I'd end up there.

At 9/28/07 09:48 AM, ShortMonkey wrote: Anyway, why are we discussing crap like this? Are we that obsessed with NG... just let the staff members/moderators sort it out...

Thats the thing though, the staff nor the mods have it figured out either.. so its cool to get the feedback of people who use the forum.

A blacklist is harsh, but i dunno i just wish there was a way where people who are notoriously known for making failied collabs would be ear tagged or something so that 1) they know that they need to take that extra time to sit down and think through their collab and 2) so that other people have some prior warning of who they are dealing with.. i mean the site tags people already anyway with broken whistle icons and entries on the verge of death, etc.

Its a contraversial idea.. im not sure if even i agree with it wholeheartedly i just think there must be a better solution than making a forum for every bucket... more forums is more mods, and more mods is more people stepping on toes. i think we have a good chemistry here in this forum where mods are really covering shifts that someone else isnt able to cover. its like a perfect balance right now. Kirk stays out of my way, i stay out of bmk's .. etc Id hate to be in general where it feels like you have your elbows in the ribs of another mod.

At 9/28/07 09:23 AM, KaynSlamdyke wrote: I'm sorry, I appear to have left the sarcasm tags off the end of my last message. My point is if you're going to split the Flash forum up, why stop at collabs? Why not split this community up so much that we isolate ourselves even more than we do from General and ostracise ourselves from each other. Hands up, honestly, everyone who checks the other areas of the BBS out as much as they check in here.

Don't be ridiculous, collaborations are clearly a hot topic with not only flashers but with tom, it makes sense to make a collab forum because this forum is for flash help and discussion of flash techniques. Honestly, who in their right mind goes to the general forum? I go to art and if I could program I'd go to programming.

The point isn't to isolate the process from us, and it's not because everyone complains about it, it's that in a collab forum, collabs could be moderated and just run better.

Music
I had someone tell me I was a loser for listening to My Chemical Romance this morning on AIM. Do you feel that people judge you by the music you listen to, and do you have to hack apart your music collection because of the people you know? I am frustrated by people who judge by the music you listen to!