What's up dudes. hehe, I've been in the shadow for months, and I've just recently hook up with the flash BBS, and decided to hit the post button now.

Re: Flash Production
Yea its been obvious in the portal since last year, but its inevitable as most people do care for cash more than flash. To be honest, I do care for the money as much as working for the best quality of my flashes. I'm not allowed to work in America since I'm a high school exchange student, and I wanted to make some in an enjoyable way. But I don't just rush out a bunch of crap purely for cash, instead I've learn a lot of stuff since I start working on flash, like graphics, AS, patience and motivation etc, these will definitely help when I go to college after summer.

It's also very noticeable how competitive it is in NG than in youtube, because ppl sponsors for flash here and youtube dont, that's why its hard to gain fame in here. My brother is a youtube star, and he's making his way to fortune by making silly movies since mtvU had sponsored him.

Re: Animation vs Games
I've also noticed how games are increasing dramatically more than animation in the portal mainly because the flash sponsors only sponsored games, that's something really sad to see. Why wouldn't people sponsor movies to even it out?

At 3/16/07 06:04 PM, EyeFusion wrote: Why wouldn't people sponsor movies to even it out?

Sponsors becoming faux talented authors

Because games are more 'sticky' ... sponsors can leverage more clickthroughs from your game than they can from your movie.. you really have to a monster animator to match up with the traffic a mediocre game can bring.

How do you guys feel about sponsors taking over an entry ... ive seen MoFunZone and Armor Games do it... i personally hate it.. you know where they co-author themselves as if they have deeply contributed something intellectual to the piece..... it makes me question how much they actually care about the not taking credit for your work argument... why should a sponsors account take the awards of someone elses talents. i thumbs down that practice strongly.

At 3/16/07 06:20 PM, Luis wrote: How do you guys feel about sponsors taking over an entry ... ive seen MoFunZone and Armor Games do it... i personally hate it.. you know where they co-author themselves as if they have deeply contributed something intellectual to the piece..... it makes me question how much they actually care about the not taking credit for your work argument... why should a sponsors account take the awards of someone elses talents. i thumbs down that practice strongly.

Re: Sponsors becoming faux talented authors

Indeed, it kind of difuses the point of not taking credit for the work that people that made the game put in. It's as if they're buying awards and such on this site. They don't really need it either, considering any game sponsored by them usually has a few links to their site in it. Do they even really need an account if their logo pops up in the intro? Obviously they sponsored it if that's there. If it's a game from their site made by someone there or some such (I believe Red was done by them), than it makes sense to have an account for games that were done by them, obviously.

Having never had any experience in dealing with them or knowing how they work, is it the game creator's choice to have AG as a co-author? I believe I've seen games sponsored by them where they weren't co-authors.

So instead of me writing the post I was going to about how demanding pay for your work from demanding newbies with an idea and a dream, or about Youtube being bigger means it gets larger lawsuits (compare Newgrounds vs the BBC and Viacom vs Google...), I'll tangent from this.

Artist wanted for game. Offering 50% credit, 75% of all takings from sponsorships and/or awards (no guaruntees as always) and as much creative input as you want. I'm bored, running dry on ideas, can't concentrate without someone prodding me, and no one seems to be taking the hint on my MSN list about wanting to work on a game with me.

Sponcers

At 3/16/07 06:20 PM, Luis wrote: ive seen MoFunZone and Armor Games do it... i personally hate it.. you know where they co-author themselves as if they have deeply contributed something intellectual to the piece..... it makes me question how much they actually care about the not taking credit for your work argument... why should a sponsors account take the awards of someone elses talents. i thumbs down that practice strongly.

glad i'm not the only one who see's this sorta thing..

every few days there'll be a game that is great but for some reason armorgames is coauther.... why? is it part of the rules that you cna only get sponcerd if they get coauther?

i cna understand they want people to know that they are spocnering the game and the player should viist their site but how does coauther get that? ins't having their name and a link to their site int he game itself enough?

the batting ave and awars the amorgames profile must have is just silly...

no offence to them of course, they do good work.. not seen any of their work but i've heard good thigns.

At 3/16/07 06:20 PM, Luis wrote: How do you guys feel about sponsors taking over an entry ... ive seen MoFunZone and Armor Games do it... i personally hate it.. you know where they co-author themselves as if they have deeply contributed something intellectual to the piece..... it makes me question how much they actually care about the not taking credit for your work argument... why should a sponsors account take the awards of someone elses talents. i thumbs down that practice strongly.

I honestly don't really think it's right, and that's why not even my big sponsored games have dan as a coauthor.

When Magnetism 2 was ready to go, Dan wanted coauthor, and I simply said "You contributed nothing to the game so I don't think it's fair for you to be coauthor". He said OK. I still got the full sponsorship for the game because him being coauthor wasn't part of the deal. But he didn't argue with me or anything.

If people don't want him to "take over an entry" all they need to do is say no in a nice way.

Sponsers
I think i heard that sometimes they help you develop your games giving advice and help etc.. So maybe thats why they get co? Just something i heard with armor games

dont quote me on it

Oh btw let me share this little amusing story with you guys.

So like in my school, they make us do the science fair if we're in any honors or AP science classes. I'm in 2. So this project was 20% of my grade in 2 seperate classes.

So anyway, last year I did something dumb with straberries or something, the teacher wasn't very helpful and we had to do it at the last minute. So I needed a good project for this year, and then I realized I could do a computer project. Well, duh i says to myself i says. I'll do a computer project... like uh Collision Detection.

So that's what I did. I got a little lazy, did the project over about a week or 2 working 5 minutes a day. And I made a crappy little poster. Meh, wasn't the best project or anything and it was mostly stuff I already knew how to do. But should get me a decent grade anyhow.

I got 3rd place in the school's science fair. Like wtf? (There were like 200 or so entries, my school is big). My first reaction was not "Oh sweet" cause there was $100 prize for 3rd, but it was "Crap now i have to do this thing again" cause they make us compete in a regional science fair. So i had to make my poster better and I did, may as well shoot for the top again because i couldn't go on to the state fair even if i came in first due to schedule issues. ANd i got a 2nd place award in the regional fair (there were like 15 2nd place awards btw). $150.

The moral: Programmers, teacher and judges for things will rank programmer stuff highly because few people can do it. So, next time you're forced to do a science fair project, just program something. Doesn't even matter what, because they don't care. They just say "oooo ahhhh programming" and give you money.

At 3/16/07 06:38 PM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote:

At 3/16/07 06:20 PM, Luis wrote:

Wow, I didn't think people were that angsty about it, honestly. I really don't mind coauthoring Dan. I would have a problem with someone taking all the credit, but it's not raining on parades putting him underneith my name.

Flash Trends
I do notice its all about sponsored games now. Not too many flash animations are sponsored, its usually in most cases games. The internet is all about sites having games now because people can sponsor/buy them and help get views. Sites like armour games sponsor games that appear on many other sites but they have their own with a collection of the games. Frankly I find the whole thing confusing, why someone would go to a game site from a game site just because the game was sponsored elsewhere. Why go to armour games when all their games are here on newgrounds?

Anyhoo, I think artistically the flash scene is going all the same route, everyone wants to make the next Decline or something along those lines. Alot of tweened one-joke flash animated series popping up. I think that the flash scene is always going down as more and more crap series are coming out, and yet we will see the odd new series or flash animation just rise above. I personally don't fav much anymore or review except for pretty much all of Wil Reinhardt's Calico Monkey episodes. His series has a great premise and he has a great publicity ideal. He sponsors himself rather than having some site pay to steal his sites views.

The flash scene has gone "Game Sponsorship", I don't like it personally.

At 3/16/07 06:47 PM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote: Oh btw let me share this little amusing story with you guys.

schoolz

lol. I am glad Im done with school. But yeah I agree, i faced something similar with an animation i did for my collegge thesis project.

RE: sponsorings

This is in response to Fuzz... i think that even if somoene on armor games or whatever did help you out here and there.. why cant an actual person be coauthored.... why does a whole company with financial interests have to win for your wins... i commend Glaiel for having the balls to put his foot down and standing his ground. Its your ideas your hard work dont give it away!

At 3/16/07 06:58 PM, Luis wrote: This is in response to Fuzz...

they why didn't you quote him ;)

Sponcering

We need more animation sponcers, way too many game sponcers out there.

Hair

if bleached hair is yellow, and you dye it blue, would that mean when the blue fades you'd get green :O?

oh shi-

Hair

I've already established the end of the hair discussion. Seriously, drop it.

RE: sponsorings

I think the whole co-author thing is a very interesting debate. If you take it for face value it doesn't seem too important, but it really is.

I think there's too ways to look at it. First, you can say that the company sponsoring did no actual work on the game, and that's fair to say. Maybe they shouldn't be co-authored if you think that.

Then I think you have to look at the other side from the corporate sense. In reality, ArmorGames or whoever funded the project. If you look at it this way, then the funder has the right to put themselves down as an author. Technically, they funded the project.

I'm not sure which way is really the right way to look at it, but both make sense to me and I can see both point of views.

At 3/16/07 07:03 PM, Lord-Sonx wrote: We need more animation sponcers, way too many game sponcers out there.

I just don't think sponsoring Flash movies would be profitable for the sponsor. The thing is, there's so few Flash animation sites that animations can get on, it would be hard to break even. I mean there's Newgrounds, Flash Player, and those are like the two most popular. With Flash games you have literaly thousands of sites to get games on.

I think the bottom line for Flash movie sponsoring the sponsor might have to use a different business model. I actually have some ideas that I'm looking into.

RE: sponsorings
This is in response to Luis.. I agree with you there, and i see that it is slightly "dishonest" trying to make out that armor games made the game. When infact only 1 person may have helped out.

This i suppose is causing viewers that then play the games to think oh, this is made by armor games the website. Disregarding the lesser known other co-author. I already had this problem in my game "Monster munchies". I got it sponsered (put into a comp) and one of the first reviews was something along the lines of
"another great game from armorgames, good work"

sponcering

i cna understand why games are so lvoed by sponcers.. people play, imput high scores or save theri progress and come back again to beat the scores or continue their game..

but wiht movies, u see once or twice and thats it.. untill mvoie movies come out and such..

unless its a movie that is so brillaint u see it voer and over again (without simply donwlaoding the swf)

But say, if someone was to have a tvshow esc style flash movie series that was to come out every week on the same and time, that would bring in alot of visiters...

sadly this may never be...... :(

At 3/16/07 07:12 PM, DFox wrote: Then I think you have to look at the other side from the corporate sense. In reality, ArmorGames or whoever funded the project. If you look at it this way, then the funder has the right to put themselves down as an author. Technically, they funded the project.

TECHNICALLY, funding the project would mean paying in advance, which armorgames doesn't do.

From a moral standpoint, if an author doesn't want armorgames to be coauthor, they shouldn't have to coauthor them. And armorgames is good about giving the developer what he wants. Just tell them, and they won't make you coauthor them.

However, they don't make it really apparent that you could do that. Back to magnetism 2, the email from dan looked something like "Now add me as a portal buddy so i can be a coauthor". Saying no seemed to work, Dan likes keeping a good relation with his developers, so he's always open to your input. Just tell him if you don't want him to be a coauthor. It will work.

At 3/16/07 07:12 PM, DFox wrote: RE: sponsorings
Then I think you have to look at the other side from the corporate sense. In reality, ArmorGames or whoever funded the project. If you look at it this way, then the funder has the right to put themselves down as an author. Technically, they funded the project.

I disagree with that, sponsors dont say heres a wad of cash make this game... they have to approve your game AFTER or when you are NEAR COMPLETION.. think of it like standing in line for a concert and letting your buddy cut in front of you.

I dont think its a RIGHT to put themselves as an author.. author means i made this i AUTHORED IT... sponsors dont author anything generally.. they just wrote you a check to plug their advertisement in the first 10 seconds of your game and link to em on the menu. which is cool. thats what a sponsorship should be and thats what they paid for no?

At 3/16/07 07:15 PM, ShirtTurtle wrote: Most kids out there dont like flash for the animations.
They just like fucking around and playing games.
And by most, i mean the non flash folk.

lol flash lay person

At 3/16/07 07:17 PM, ShirtTurtle wrote:

At 3/16/07 07:15 PM, fuzz wrote: "another great game from armorgames, good work"

I got that too with bee dodger.
He said "Original idea! Armor games always thinks outside the box."
How wrong he was.

Yeah some people are idiots. I mean I never thought the websites like armorgames and miniclips made the games if they didn't. Morons! Anything I make I think I'll just plaster my name all over the intro and menu so people know. One great thing about getting sponsored by armorgames is that the games on the site get around. Just googling bee dodger turned up many more searches than I suspected, each of the good sites having around 5k views.

RE: sponsorings

At 3/16/07 07:18 PM, Lord-Sonx wrote: But say, if someone was to have a tvshow esc style flash movie series that was to come out every week on the same and time, that would bring in alot of visiters...

Maybe that would work, but imho, it can be gone about very differently.

I like what you said about people only watching movies one time, and that's probably the truth. So what does that mean? To get sponsors or whatever you need to capitalize off that one view. I would think something like a commercial half way through the movie or something of the sort would be effective.

At 3/16/07 07:23 PM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote: TECHNICALLY, funding the project would mean paying in advance, which armorgames doesn't do.

Good point, but if the persons motive was the sponsorship money then it's as good as funding.

From a moral standpoint, if an author doesn't want armorgames to be coauthor, they shouldn't have to coauthor them. And armorgames is good about giving the developer what he wants. Just tell them, and they won't make you coauthor them.

I agree. It's not moral. But the thing is, ArmorGames is paying the cash, so really, most people have to go by their terms whether it's right or wrong.

However, they don't make it really apparent that you could do that. Back to magnetism 2, the email from dan looked something like "Now add me as a portal buddy so i can be a coauthor". Saying no seemed to work, Dan likes keeping a good relation with his developers, so he's always open to your input. Just tell him if you don't want him to be a coauthor. It will work.

Yeah that's pretty sad to see. I think that just comes down to whether people like the way ArmorGames conducts themselves and whether they want to work with them or not.

At 3/16/07 07:25 PM, Luis wrote: I disagree with that, sponsors dont say heres a wad of cash make this game... they have to approve your game AFTER or when you are NEAR COMPLETION.. think of it like standing in line for a concert and letting your buddy cut in front of you.

I guess that's true. But I still think some people might consider it funding or compensation for their work which leads me to think that's why these people co-author ArmorGames.

I dont think its a RIGHT to put themselves as an author.. author means i made this i AUTHORED IT... sponsors dont author anything generally.. they just wrote you a check to plug their advertisement in the first 10 seconds of your game and link to em on the menu. which is cool. thats what a sponsorship should be and thats what they paid for no?

I agree, it's certainly not right, I'm just debating whether armorgames is entitled to do it. The bottom line in my mind is that ArmorGames is shelling out the cash, and the reason these people do co-author them is because they are in control. You have to remember, these people are never forced to co-author them. They can walk away from the money at any time.

I think the solution to this is showing people what their work is truly worth rather than convincing them to just not co-author the sponsor.

At 3/16/07 07:28 PM, Coaly wrote: Just googling bee dodger turned up many more searches than I suspected, each of the good sites having around 5k views.

Nooooo000 ...(etc)
http://forum.ebaumsworld.com/showthread.php?t =184406

Although i find it pretty cool that there were people talking about my game although it would have been better if they linked to the version on my site.

At 3/16/07 07:28 PM, Coaly wrote: Yeah some people are idiots. I mean I never thought the websites like armorgames and miniclips made the games if they didn't. Morons! Anything I make I think I'll just plaster my name all over the intro and menu so people know. One great thing about getting sponsored by armorgames is that the games on the site get around. Just googling bee dodger turned up many more searches than I suspected, each of the good sites having around 5k views.

haha sponsor co-authoring. its like something a person with no talent and lots of money do...

Btw the author system wasn't meant for that, but maybe there should be a slot designated just for this purpose. "animator" "programmer" "Slimey Money Guy"

The capital shouldn't be mistaken as talent, thats decieving.

I remembered how against Ignlor from AG was about that, so pissed off how the Guy at mo-funzone forced kids to co-auth for a few bucks,. Ironic how its being defended now those same cronies now..

sponsor
i like

Sponcering-Selling

At 3/16/07 07:40 PM, Toast wrote: i like

great addition to the convosation there toast.

at some poin, sponcering sites will go that extra bit more and acutlly buy your hard work (probs get more money) and put their name all over it..

although, has that already happend? armorgames becomes coauther and u have to put their name over everything?

.. oh the crazyness

Sponsorship Problem - Solved

I agree with the idea that just because they paid to have their name on it doesn't mean they should get to claim that they created it(implied by Co-Author). But what they are basically paying for is the links and potential traffic. If they want one more link to their site might as well have Tom add a spot between "Author" and "Audio" that says "Sponsor".

Honestly, the idea of Armor Games kinda bothers me. They have absolutely no purpose. Just about everything there is released on Newgrounds. If I'm sitting here looking to a game to play I could just browse the portal or games section here. Anytime I do go to Armor Games for some reason I just think to myself, "hey it's that game I played a few months ago at Newgrounds". The whole site pretty much leeches off Newgrounds.

I suppose it doesn't matter that much. They profit off the hits generated by other peoples work, but I remember a few years back when anytime a person submitted a popular submission their site would be so flooded with traffic that it would crash.

RE: sponsorings

At 3/16/07 07:47 PM, MethodMinus wrote: I suppose it doesn't matter that much. They profit off the hits generated by other peoples work, but I remember a few years back when anytime a person submitted a popular submission their site would be so flooded with traffic that it would crash.

To be honest, if you asked me a year ago I would be touting ArmorGames and praising it. But now, I have many reasons for wondering whether they always pay fairly. In the last dealing I had with them and ever will have with them they offered me $200 for a game of mine that is approaching 9 million plays, and almost a year after release is still averaging about 6 plays/minute.

If I had accepted that offer my site never would have gotten off the ground and I would have never been able to forgive myself. I wonder how many people this happens to but they are naive and accept the offer.

I think people need to be MUCH more aware of what their work is really worth.

At 3/16/07 01:20 PM, Radioactive24 wrote: ill-will-press is a fucking faggot >:C

Homophobe

i know I'm not helping my reputation here, nm. still straight.

ANYWAYZ

Didnt think that would become such a testy subject and twist so many nipples.. in other news i havent done a collab in ages im thinking of doing one to one of kid koalas songs.... anyone familiar with him???

RE: ANYWAYZ

At 3/16/07 09:28 PM, Luis wrote:

havent done a collab in ages im thinking of doing one to one of kid koalas songs.... anyone familiar with him???

I have no fucking clue who that is.

Anyone fancy isketch/stick arena?

At 3/16/07 09:37 PM, Kirk-Cocaine wrote: RE: ANYWAYZ

At 3/16/07 09:28 PM, Luis wrote:

havent done a collab in ages im thinking of doing one to one of kid koalas songs.... anyone familiar with him???

I have no fucking clue who that is.

Anyone fancy isketch/stick arena?

LETS DO ISKETCH LATER.