At 12/16/13 01:39 AM, egg82 wrote: ... Why?

It's really useful and, at the time, they weren't getting funding from anyone. Plus, it's not like you're paying for something you can do in addition to making the project that requires it. They also have in-app purchases and gamecenter libraries that are paid.

At 12/16/13 03:53 AM, PSvils wrote: So people are willing to pay subscriptions for games, but when it comes to real-world useful things, suddenly it's outrage?

I'm not sure that paying for games and paying for code are two relate-able things.

Suck it up, if you need to use it, then pay for it. They have a big codebase and already a lot of crossplatform functionality for you for free, and you still complain!

I'm not talking about this specific company, but the practice in general. I feel like if I need to pay somebody to code something for me in my own project then I'm doing something wrong. I have no problems taking free code, but when it comes to paying somebody to do it I feel like I just told myself "face it, you're not good enough to do this so just give up." - and that does not sit well with me.

At 12/16/13 11:43 AM, egg82 wrote: I'm not talking about this specific company, but the practice in general. I feel like if I need to pay somebody to code something for me in my own project then I'm doing something wrong. I have no problems taking free code, but when it comes to paying somebody to do it I feel like I just told myself "face it, you're not good enough to do this so just give up." - and that does not sit well with me.

Same for me. I concur. I like programming everything myself. From scratch. In one night. That's insanely exciting. It helps get in the zone, which egg mentioned earlier.

In the real world we must realize however that we cannot create very complex systems on our own, or we simply don't have the time. For example if you want to store data from users and you want to encrypt it, you don't want to come up with your own algorithm that beats the pre existing ones. We don't have the time to be bothered with that as we have ass to kick.

We also all want to get paid for our hard programming jobs, it's hypocritical to deny fellow programmers that write code for you to deny this money.

Now most generally used systems such as encryption algorithms or physics engines are open source, but specific stuff like swf vector extraction and multi-platform display isn't something anyone does in their free time without getting paid for it.

At 12/16/13 11:43 AM, egg82 wrote:

:I feel like if I need to pay somebody to code something for me in my own project then I'm doing something wrong.

In the end it's all a money game and if you can pay 100$ to save yourself 1000$ of development time (if you can create it in the first place) I see nothing wrong with it.
If you respect your own effort and time as a programmer you will understand this.

At 12/16/13 12:59 PM, Sandremss128 wrote: In the end it's all a money game and if you can pay 100$ to save yourself 1000$ of development time (if you can create it in the first place) I see nothing wrong with it.
If you respect your own effort and time as a programmer you will understand this.

We weren't talking about jobs as programmers, were we?
On a job, we'll be all serious and rational and stuff.
In our free time we can do whatever we want to, right?
So if I want to program something that I think I can, I will, because it's my free time.
But on a job, yes, all your points are natural and obvious.

At 12/16/13 12:54 PM, PSvils wrote: What? Either way you're using 3rd party code, that you weren't good enough to do on your own...

I use the free tools to save time. I COULD do it on my own, but why waste the time when someone's already done it and is distributing it for free?

Again, I draw a bit of a weird line on this one because i'll happily take someone's free code but won't pay for the same code. Money isn't easy to come by for me, if i'm spending it on something it'd better save me that same amount or greater in the future. With free stuff, you're pretty much guaranteed that level of security whereas paying for something is always a risk.

Paying for something makes me feel like I couldn't do it on my own for free. Sometimes i'm okay with that, but if I can't do something I want to learn how to do it; not pay somebody to do it for me.

At 12/16/13 01:15 PM, kkots wrote: We weren't talking about jobs as programmers, were we?
On a job, we'll be all serious and rational and stuff.
In our free time we can do whatever we want to, right?
So if I want to program something that I think I can, I will, because it's my free time.
But on a job, yes, all your points are natural and obvious.

I get your point, but I don't understand how you make the distinction between professional programmer and amateur.
Just because I like recreational fishing doesn't mean I don't want to spend money on a fishing rod and go in the woods to craft my own one.

On the other hand if it is your personal mission or challenge to not use any (paid) third party software libraries for your projects I think that's very admirable.

At 12/16/13 01:23 PM, egg82 wrote: Paying for something makes me feel like I couldn't do it on my own for free. Sometimes i'm okay with that, but if I can't do something I want to learn how to do it; not pay somebody to do it for me.

I looked at the source. It's pretty similar to what glaiel was doing, minus crossplatform stuff. Not something you could do by yourself unless that was the only thing you were doing for a while.

Plus it's free right now, so just get it.

At 12/16/13 01:53 PM, MSGhero wrote: I looked at the source. It's pretty similar to what glaiel was doing, minus crossplatform stuff. Not something you could do by yourself unless that was the only thing you were doing for a while.

Plus it's free right now, so just get it.

Again, this isn't just this one specific instance. I'm talking about the general idea of selling code.

Some people/companies don't have the time or resources available to write significantly large amounts of code. For example, imagine you are an employer and you need your employee(s) to make X, but a version of X already exists that does everything you need (we'll call it Y). Having the employee(s) spend time developing X costs $1000.00, since they need to be paid for their time. Buying Y costs $500.00, and has free support (which X does not because you need to pay employees to fix any bugs/issues).

I pulled those numbers out of my ass, but do you see why there exists good reasons to pay for code (even if they don't apply to you)?

At 12/16/13 01:46 PM, Sandremss128 wrote: On the other hand if it is your personal mission or challenge to not use any (paid) third party software libraries for your projects I think that's very admirable.

There there. You said the word "challenge". The words that should go next are "adrenaline", "berserk rage" and "faint at computer". And people who do such things actually like doing them. (Warning: over the top self-confidence and lack of rational thought may be involved.)

But maybe it's because I'm still inexperienced, and I intentionally pick whatever difficult task I can or cannot do simply to raise my skills. But I don't see why it doesn't apply to mature guys who have jobs as programmers - a person develops for his/her whole life, you'll never reach perfection, so you should be affected by this madness at least to some degree. *makes a crazy look*

At 12/17/13 05:25 AM, Diki wrote: I pulled those numbers out of my ass, but do you see why there exists good reasons to pay for code (even if they don't apply to you)?

I never actually considered that, though it seems pretty obvious and I certainly should have.

http://blog.civillains.com/post/70189723236/oh-hey-heres-a-fake-screenshot

So this is why you need artists in your life. Top one is my art, bottom one is an artists. :P

At 12/17/13 11:26 PM, PrettyMuchBryce wrote: http://blog.civillains.com/post/70189723236/oh-hey-heres-a-fake-screenshot

So this is why you need artists in your life. Top one is my art, bottom one is an artists. :P

At least your pixel art isn't the worst. Like mine. I can make an idle dude okish, but once animations start, I'm done. I brought my tablet home this break, so I might screw around with drawing again.

What do you guys mean by "asynchronous rpg"? You mean it's not turn-based?

At 12/18/13 01:07 AM, MSGhero wrote: What do you guys mean by "asynchronous rpg"? You mean it's not turn-based?

I think they mean that you first define what you want to do, and your enemy too, and then it gets done simultaneously, by both you and your enemy, and whoever does something first or second is defined by, well, onEnterFrame logic.

So I've been thinking about doing a charity stream in January to celebrate the new year and help out the folks at Child's Play.
Honestly I don't know how much I'd be able to raise, but I'd feel better about at least making a good attempt instead of saying "it's pointless, why do it?"

Also my channel was finally able to get partnered into the RPM network and i'm still fairly steadily (slowly, but steadily) gaining momentum on YouTube.

Finally i'm still working on the Joe launcher. Look, the original plan would have been done in a week or two. What I've created is a monster xD

I'm also working on capitalizing words like "I'm" and "I'd" because apparently they're supposed to be capitalized. Never heard that rule before, and I lived with some pretty big grammar freaks O.o

So that's been my life for the last month or two. A ton of work, but it's starting to pay off :D

At 12/18/13 12:04 PM, egg82 wrote: I'm also working on capitalizing words like "I'm" and "I'd" because apparently they're supposed to be capitalized. Never heard that rule before, and I lived with some pretty big grammar freaks O.o

AMERICANS.

At 12/18/13 12:22 PM, Sam wrote: AMERICANS.

I laughed harder than I should have :P

At 12/18/13 12:22 PM, Sam wrote:

At 12/18/13 12:04 PM, egg82 wrote: I'm also working on capitalizing words like "I'm" and "I'd" because apparently they're supposed to be capitalized. Never heard that rule before, and I lived with some pretty big grammar freaks O.o

AMERICANS.

Bloody yanky doodle dandies

At 12/18/13 12:04 PM, egg82 wrote: I'm also working on capitalizing words like "I'm" and "I'd" because apparently they're supposed to be capitalized. Never heard that rule before, and I lived with some pretty big grammar freaks O.o

Technically, it's not a grammar issue, but still I thought everyone did that automatically o.0

It most certainly is a grammar issue, because the pronoun "I" is always capitalised in English, even if used as a contraction. Not capitalising it would be like not capitalising the first letter of a proper noun that is used as a contraction, which would just be silly.

Good on ya for fixing your grammar, egg. :)

At 12/18/13 03:05 PM, Diki wrote: It most certainly is a grammar issue, because the pronoun "I" is always capitalised in English, even if used as a contraction. Not capitalising it would be like not capitalising the first letter of a proper noun that is used as a contraction, which would just be silly.

Grammar feels more like syntax, how things are arranged in a sentence. Misspelling something is just misspelling. But I have idealized definitions of a lot of things, the actual definition might include capitalization.

We haven't done screenshots in a while. It's not saturday, but if you have any, post em!

my game looks exactly the same as it did a few months ago from a screenshot perspective

At 12/18/13 03:14 PM, MSGhero wrote: We haven't done screenshots in a while. It's not saturday, but if you have any, post em!

Uuuuhhhh....
Does this count, or am I bending the rules a bit?

At 12/18/13 03:40 PM, egg82 wrote:

At 12/18/13 03:14 PM, MSGhero wrote: We haven't done screenshots in a while. It's not saturday, but if you have any, post em!

Uuuuhhhh....
Does this count, or am I bending the rules a bit?

We can bend the rules some.

My first datum with the analytics I'll be using. How many people viewing the game is one thing, how many people sitting through an RPG's preloading time is the more important stat :P

At 12/18/13 03:57 PM, MSGhero wrote: My first datum with the analytics I'll be using. How many people viewing the game is one thing, how many people sitting through an RPG's preloading time is the more important stat :P

Checking my analytics, everybody hates watching menus and loading screens even with talking. Can't say I blame them.
I stop talking during a loading screen and chop it off nowadays. Evidence this technique works below.

At 12/18/13 04:03 PM, egg82 wrote: Checking my analytics, everybody hates watching menus and loading screens even with talking. Can't say I blame them.
I stop talking during a loading screen and chop it off nowadays. Evidence this technique works below.

We're probably gonna put something interactive during the preloader, like how epic battle fantasy does with clicking the dudes. Though since all of the smaller assets are on a single spritesheet, I wouldn't want to have a preloader for my preloader...

Actually I just realized I spent almost 40 seconds in the main menu in the new (not out yet) WftO video. That's certainly going to kill the audience retention :(

At 12/18/13 03:14 PM, MSGhero wrote: Grammar feels more like syntax, how things are arranged in a sentence. Misspelling something is just misspelling. But I have idealized definitions of a lot of things, the actual definition might include capitalization.

Improper capitalising is syntax. He spelled the words correctly, just messed up the formatting. It would be like not capitalising the first letter of the first word of a sentence, which I think you would agree is a grammar error.

At 12/18/13 04:15 PM, egg82 wrote: Actually I just realized I spent almost 40 seconds in the main menu in the new (not out yet) WftO video. That's certainly going to kill the audience retention :(

I'm gonna stop watching at the 39 sec mark.

At 12/18/13 05:01 PM, Diki wrote: Improper capitalising is syntax. He spelled the words correctly, just messed up the formatting. It would be like not capitalising the first letter of the first word of a sentence, which I think you would agree is a grammar error.

Ehh, I'll give you that. But those s's in "capitalising" are bothering me lol.

silly non-americans

We are a colourful bunch. ;)