At 7/9/13 08:32 PM, Sam wrote: I've always been wary of internships for some reason. I'd feel like I was being exploited even though I know I'd benefit a great deal from the experience.

NEVER take an unpaid internship. If a company is fucking serious about providing a learning value. then they'd pay atleast minimum wage to help you. what the fuck do these places think. that you can just live for free because youre a noob. i mean come the fuck on.

At 7/10/13 12:09 AM, egg82 wrote:

At 7/10/13 12:05 AM, TheNavigat wrote: Didn't expect that would amaze you... They're bankrupt to this guy, considering that it's the "old ugly deprecated PHP"..

so you're telling me that I can code better PHP than he can, and he's getting $170 an hour, and i'm jobless?
this just in: up is down, and backwards is really forwards. Hah, tricked you!

Not really. I mean, you mentioned above that PHP is no longer widely supported, the truth is that it is. He's got 9 years of experience, at least that's what he says there, so I bet you can code better PHP than he can..

At 7/10/13 12:28 AM, Luis wrote:

At 7/9/13 08:32 PM, Sam wrote: I've always been wary of internships for some reason. I'd feel like I was being exploited even though I know I'd benefit a great deal from the experience.

NEVER take an unpaid internship. If a company is fucking serious about providing a learning value. then they'd pay atleast minimum wage to help you. what the fuck do these places think. that you can just live for free because youre a noob. i mean come the fuck on.

I've been into few, and I've watched startups rise in front of my eyes, so I'll have to argue a bit.

It depends, actually. If the company's big, your point is valid. Millions of income, and they don't want to spare few bucks on an intern? Greed!

On the other hand.. Joining a startup, opposite to joining an enterprise, would provide at least 2X more experience. More work of course, but you're not anymore gaining experience and leaving, you're becoming a part of it. You're not contributing a few lines or a new feature, you're creating it with the other guys, and in some cases, the interns are those whose simple touches flip the whole project. Step by step, they're not anymore "employees" nor "interns", they're co-founders, not formally of course but they've added the same as the other guys, so money (in this case) doesn't matter a bit.

At 7/10/13 12:40 AM, TheNavigat wrote:

At 7/10/13 12:28 AM, Luis wrote:

At 7/9/13 08:32 PM, Sam wrote: I've always been wary of internships for some reason. I'd feel like I was being exploited even though I know I'd benefit a great deal from the experience.

NEVER take an unpaid internship. If a company is fucking serious about providing a learning value. then they'd pay atleast minimum wage to help you. what the fuck do these places think. that you can just live for free because youre a noob. i mean come the fuck on.

I've been into few, and I've watched startups rise in front of my eyes, so I'll have to argue a bit.

It depends, actually. If the company's big, your point is valid. Millions of income, and they don't want to spare few bucks on an intern? Greed!

On the other hand.. Joining a startup, opposite to joining an enterprise, would provide at least 2X more experience. More work of course, but you're not anymore gaining experience and leaving, you're becoming a part of it. You're not contributing a few lines or a new feature, you're creating it with the other guys, and in some cases, the interns are those whose simple touches flip the whole project. Step by step, they're not anymore "employees" nor "interns", they're co-founders, not formally of course but they've added the same as the other guys, so money (in this case) doesn't matter a bit.

I dunno. if the start-up is making money, it should invest in people. I'm not even talking about like give them enough to retire with. I mean SOMETHING. Even as an intern, living in my parents basement and what have you. you still need SOME money to survive. I mean youre probably 20 something years old. you arent fucking 7 yrs old where everything is taken care of you. You probably have car payments, credit card, whatever. Its absurd for any company to assume you have such a lush life that you have NO NEED for ANY money whatsoever. Gimme a fucking break.

Unless i was close friends with the owner and it was a true leap of faith id be ok with it. But living in the real world where experience is nice but you are doing an internship taking up your time for no money whatsoever and still having to come up with time to take up a part time job to pay your very real bills is bullshit IMO.

At 7/10/13 01:03 AM, Luis wrote: I dunno. if the start-up is making money, it should invest in people. I'm not even talking about like give them enough to retire with. I mean SOMETHING. Even as an intern, living in my parents basement and what have you. you still need SOME money to survive. I mean youre probably 20 something years old. you arent fucking 7 yrs old where everything is taken care of you. You probably have car payments, credit card, whatever. Its absurd for any company to assume you have such a lush life that you have NO NEED for ANY money whatsoever. Gimme a fucking break.

I'll have to agree with that. Of course they should pay an amount of money so you can have a breakfast, but not a 40$ per hour, they're a startup company, they're probably striving..

At 7/10/13 12:25 AM, Luis wrote: Whether its enough value to warrant the price, well thats a personal decision really.

For in-state students who mostly all get 90% paid for by the local govt, yes. For out-of-state students who aren't in dire financial need...I mean $10k more cmon. Even the online course I'm taking now cost about $2000 more for out-of-state. I did snag one of those scholarships even though I'm not in-state, so I can't complain too much compared to some of the others.

Some site/mag said it's one of the best bangs for your buck once you hit the professional world, probably cuz of all the Google/FB/oil companies that look for hires.

At 7/10/13 01:37 AM, MSGhero wrote:

At 7/10/13 12:25 AM, Luis wrote: Whether its enough value to warrant the price, well thats a personal decision really.

For in-state students who mostly all get 90% paid for by the local govt, yes. For out-of-state students who aren't in dire financial need...I mean $10k more cmon. Even the online course I'm taking now cost about $2000 more for out-of-state. I did snag one of those scholarships even though I'm not in-state, so I can't complain too much compared to some of the others.

Some site/mag said it's one of the best bangs for your buck once you hit the professional world, probably cuz of all the Google/FB/oil companies that look for hires.

Oh well, got a friend, intern at Microsoft, they've got 1 Gbps internet connection there, so you can guess the salary.. Because he didn't mention it..

At 7/10/13 01:49 AM, TheNavigat wrote: Oh well, got a friend, intern at Microsoft, they've got 1 Gbps internet connection there, so you can guess the salary.. Because he didn't mention it..

My uni has that speed interweb. They don't pay me anything. I got up to 604Mbps via speedtest once at like 4am; in the commons I can't even get a signal.

At 7/10/13 02:07 AM, MSGhero wrote:

At 7/10/13 01:49 AM, TheNavigat wrote: Oh well, got a friend, intern at Microsoft, they've got 1 Gbps internet connection there, so you can guess the salary.. Because he didn't mention it..

My uni has that speed interweb. They don't pay me anything. I got up to 604Mbps via speedtest once at like 4am; in the commons I can't even get a signal.

I've got a 512 Kbps internet connection at home, Alexandria, Egypt.. Now you can imagine the pain..

There is a lot of text above and I haven't read it all yet, but my question for egg and mike is:

Have you actually tried applying anywhere yet?

Put together a nice portfolio of everything you've done up until now, write a nice CV about what you're capable of doing and what you're best at. (post it on here if you'd like me to have a look, or PM me if you're shy).

I started off by just checking out a job website and realizing that Flash development is actually something people will pay you for (oh how young and naive I was) and I was working as a junior developer for a new media company the next week! (Didn't show up to sixth form college anymore, seemed pointless).

A colleague and I were in charge of all hiring for the flash team last year (I'm moving on now though, long story), so I know what companies look for in developers. Designers I'm not so sure about but honestly if you've got talent then a lack of experience shouldn't stop you getting on the ladder.

Mike, I have one word for you: London. London has a billion jobs for digital designers. Personally I prefer to work outside because you get paid the same for much cheaper living, but to start out with it's a good place to start your career!

Let me know if you have any questions and I can try and help, I wish someone experienced was there to help me when I first started!

At 7/10/13 12:28 AM, Luis wrote: NEVER take an unpaid internship. If a company is fucking serious about providing a learning value. then they'd pay atleast minimum wage to help you. what the fuck do these places think. that you can just live for free because youre a noob. i mean come the fuck on.

Over here, if you're under 19 and you take an apprenticeship, you get paid like £2.50~ an hour which is complete bullshit. I suppose at that age most people don't have to rely on themselves to keep a roof above their heads but even so, at that rate I'd feel like I was being exploited.

At 7/10/13 04:24 AM, Rustygames wrote: Have you actually tried applying anywhere yet?

Short answer: I have, but i'm pretty sure my resume isn't up-to-scratch :P

Also, Nav, I thought you meant he was coding PHP using the deprecated PHP4-style. In which case I was about to flip a lid. Turns out, he's doing it right.

Also, this makes me very, very happy :D

Off-topic question: Why doesn't <script src="myscript.js"/> work? I just discovered that after I couldn't get the JS to work, and changed this to <script src="myscript.js"></script>, which worked.

At 7/10/13 12:23 PM, FlyingColours wrote: Off-topic question: Why doesn't <script src="myscript.js"/> work? I just discovered that after I couldn't get the JS to work, and changed this to <script src="myscript.js"></script>, which worked.

because <script> is a double-sided tag, "src" attribute or not.

At 7/10/13 12:27 PM, egg82 wrote:

At 7/10/13 12:23 PM, FlyingColours wrote: Off-topic question: Why doesn't <script src="myscript.js"/> work? I just discovered that after I couldn't get the JS to work, and changed this to <script src="myscript.js"></script>, which worked.

because <script> is a double-sided tag, "src" attribute or not.

Oh... of course, thanks!

Just finished coding the engine for my Robot Day entry (I'm *fast*, aren't I?). Now I'll write the content and finally add some pointless eye candy, then I'm done! :)

At 7/10/13 12:47 PM, FlyingColours wrote: Just finished coding the engine for my Robot Day entry (I'm *fast*, aren't I?). Now I'll write the content and finally add some pointless eye candy, then I'm done! :)

ah, i'm just trying to finish GameWork for C#. Working on all the networking stuff, including temporary firewall bypassing (hopefully) and UPnP for "automatic" port forwarding. ext up is the Steam API integration.
Then i'll see if I can make our game jam game in it to fill in any gaps.

programming jobs

In the industry there's always jobs that even crappy flash programmers could complete and the manager wouldn't be able to tell the difference. I guess some places have more of these jobs, and some have less. Earlier this year I found a gig doing english education games for kids. Typical stuff. Question comes up in text, sound, or image form, 3 answers show up, if they choose correct one, some success sequence plays on the "game" side of the screen, if they choose wrong failure sequence plays. (The API part was annoying though because they changed the way it works like 10 times along the project)

A personal note from me on this is I was amazed how much easier it is to make money working for some big company than by trying to produce your own projects. And it's really strange to work in an environment where no one has a clue of the difficulty or time requirement of the work you're doing, at best they could only ballpark it to a low multiple. If the funding is good enough, you could be spending 5 times the amount of time it should normally take you to do the work, and no one would be able to call the bluff. Then again, there is the opposite effect, where you're expected to do a completely unrealistic amount of work for a given funding / time allowance. The latter kinda happened to me, I was supposed to construct front-end UI for TV media software (yes, in flash ... loljapan) in about 2 weeks ... Turned out they barely had like 10% of the graphical assets complete during the time I was starting to work on it, so the project had the kaibosh put on it.

I think this story servers as a good lesson for beginner programmers to voice out their complaints to upper level / management when the conditions are just not right. The project I described was actually my first real professional work experience. I was both over-confident in my abilities and over-willing to do the project despite the visibly crazy time requirements, and I barely voiced out any complaints about other people not preparing things right, or project conditions being just unacceptable. We had a korean programmer come into our office as the project began, he was supposed to be here to assist with the workload. We had a tiny portion of assets available to us, and while I was trying to do as much work possible with the given assets, he pretty much recognized that the project was a ship about to sink, and he ditched out.

I think it's important to be firm with managers about bad conditions, and it also makes you look like a matured experienced programmer.

So according to a bunch of links containing supposedly leaked information, the Steam summer sales begin tomorrow.
Your wallets are not prepared.

On a happy side-note, I managed to finish this beast today.
Both client and server support TCP and UDP, and calling a util function before you open a client or server SHOULD (not fully tested, but it hasn't thrown any error yet) grant your program a firewall bypass until it shuts down

the commented line in the onServerRecieve function is for responding to TCP connections. Both should run on their own threads with minimal overhead.
Unfortunately once you put your params in either the client or the server's constructor, you're stuck with those params until you decide to use the "new" keyword. I doubt that'll change.

Anyway, on to the steam API. I have my JSON class, HTTP request class, and stream reader class already working, so it's really just a matter of actually learning the damn API.

Throughout the coding of this thing, i've realized I misspelled "receive" throughout all of my classes. Ffffffffuuuuuuuuuuu...

At 7/9/13 08:09 PM, Innermike wrote: Feel free to disagree with me though, I'm sure most of you would since you're all super-geniuses who probably manufacture your own parts for your computers. I'm just a guy that knows how to move rectangles around and I'm alright with that.

Nah, I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. The only difference is I did apply to a bunch of top schools and got rejected from almost everything. I'm taking a year off to work on and hopefully finish Concerned Joe, and will apply again next year.

The only reason I do still want to go to college is less because of what I expect to learn from classes, and more about what I expect to gain from the whole experience of travelling halfway around the world, living on my own, meeting new, perhaps talented, creative individuals and having new experiences etc..

It's all about SAT scores, apparently.

If anyone's wondering about that post I made on my userpage about being accepted into Rochester, the only reason I did that is pretty much because I had been dreaming for several months of making this heartfelt post after being accepted in some top school, and it seemed like the next best thing. (I'm not going to Rochester due to lack of funding)

At 7/11/13 12:59 AM, 4urentertainment wrote: It's all about SAT scores, apparently.

Thankfully it's also about ACT scores, at least more so in the south. SAT has too many abstract, "what would be a good title for this passage?" questions that only have biased answers. Some places convert ACT scores to SAT and then take the higher score in each section from all the times you've taken either one.

If anyone's wondering about that post I made on my userpage about being accepted into Rochester, the only reason I did that is pretty much because I had been dreaming for several months of making this heartfelt post after being accepted in some top school, and it seemed like the next best thing. (I'm not going to Rochester due to lack of funding)

That's gotta be a bummer :( I'm not sure how scholarships work with international students, but if you have financial need, you have a higher chance of getting some of the good ones that exist (not necessarily associated with a uni). Not being white also helps.

At 7/11/13 02:44 AM, MSGhero wrote:

At 7/11/13 12:59 AM, 4urentertainment wrote: It's all about SAT scores, apparently.

Thankfully it's also about ACT scores, at least more so in the south. SAT has too many abstract, "what would be a good title for this passage?" questions that only have biased answers. Some places convert ACT scores to SAT and then take the higher score in each section from all the times you've taken either one.

If anyone's wondering about that post I made on my userpage about being accepted into Rochester, the only reason I did that is pretty much because I had been dreaming for several months of making this heartfelt post after being accepted in some top school, and it seemed like the next best thing. (I'm not going to Rochester due to lack of funding)

That's gotta be a bummer :(

Ah yeah that does suck. I can relate, I remember being accepted into the Rhode Island School of Design back when I graduated (strangely, i would have been in the same graduating class as Seth McFarlane if I ended up going), but yeah it was super expensive and I just wasnt able to go.

I ended up going somewhere else, and in hindsight, it was just fine. I think that your post-high school career is what youre willing to make of it. While it is nice to goto the best school, it only gives you as much as youre willing to give it. I'd like to think things panned out anyway. Sometimes i wonder if I even needed to goto college. (I majored in print design, i ended up doing almost pure digital, though i do actually apply alot of traditional print methodologies to my work so it wasnt a TOTAL waste). Anyway keep your head up, after you graduate and have settled in to the professional world, where you went to school is beyond anyones care.

At 7/11/13 12:08 PM, Innermike wrote: Seems like a good enough reason. I would probably never leave my room though.

I used to feel this way (still do sometimes), but sometimes I just hate my room and I go take a long walk. It definitely frees my mind up after a while, and then I'm tired enough that I don't want to leave my room again for a while :)

What's the average age of the active regs here? I feel like the influx of younger peeps isn't lining up with the aging of the older ones.

18-21 with outliers/veterans in the mid-late twenties and then luis I reckon. I think all the younger people are in most of the other threads asking about as2 error #1069 in their first platformers. I feel like there will be more people after summer ends.

Also, was there a flash forum awards last christmas/newyears?

I wasn't invited if there was. I don't remember when I started coming to the reg lounge, but there definitely wasn't one 7 months ago.

Completely off-topic, but how do you guys add quotes in forum replies without having to click "reply"? And yes, I'm serious.. Completely serious.. .__.

At 7/11/13 10:30 PM, Innermike wrote:

At 7/11/13 10:10 PM, TheNavigat wrote: Completely off-topic, but how do you guys add quotes in forum replies without having to click "reply"? And yes, I'm serious.. Completely serious.. .__.

You can't? I just cmd+click reply to the ones I want to quote then copy what I want out of those tabs and close them.

Though if there's some secret method I haven't been aware of for all these years I'll probably have a brain aneurism.

OR if you want your msg to reach someone you can use @ and username. they will get it on their userfeed

At 7/12/13 12:33 AM, Luis wrote: OR if you want your msg to reach someone you can use @ and username. they will get it on their userfeed

I want my msg on my food.

And in my name

At 7/12/13 12:33 AM, Luis wrote: OR if you want your msg to reach someone you can use @ and username.

Ohai, @Tom

@egg82 Can you see this message in your feed, egg? :)

Oh well.. And here are the guys trolling me..

Really? @kkots