When did games lose such depth?
After reading Glaiel's blog post and then playing Killzone 2 I realized just how crap it was.
I mean the action is awesome but there's no depth, the characters are cliched along with the script and the world is simply a set of random alien planets where you just kill enemies that aren't very well explained.
I mean what happened to the beauty that was video game worlds and stories and anything else that wasn't killing?

At 8/21/09 01:32 PM, Deadclever23 wrote: When did games lose such depth?

There are countless games with tonnes of depth, don't be so naive to think that Killzone 2 is a shining example of current generation computer games. I think Killzone 2 is a great game, for what it is - a sci-fi FPS action game.

At 8/21/09 01:32 PM, Deadclever23 wrote: When did games lose such depth?

I beat Shadow Complex yesterday and I think what bothers me is how it's painted up as "hardcore" but then they go and remove a lot of what made Super Metroid amazing. Unfortunately, I know when they had to make the game easier, since Super Metroid is a bit overwhelming to someone at first. There's no mission and no goals other than "beat the game" and there's no story to guide you. There's no blue line on the map showing you exactly where to go, and enemies actually get harder towards the end of the game despite you getting more powerful.

Shadow Complex reveals the whole map and all its secrets to you halfway through the game. It holds your hand the entire way. It's easy near the end.

Yet this is what's "hardcore" now. It's a steady progression of sacrificing difficult original gameplay in favor of telling a cheesy story and blowing things up.

At 8/21/09 01:35 PM, liaaaam wrote:

At 8/21/09 01:32 PM, Deadclever23 wrote: When did games lose such depth?

There are countless games with tonnes of depth, don't be so naive to think that Killzone 2 is a shining example of current generation computer games. I think Killzone 2 is a great game, for what it is - a sci-fi FPS action game.

2008's best selling games -
01. Wii Play (Wii) - 5,280,000 - No depth hear.
02. Mario Kart Wii (Wii) - 5,000,000 - Racing in a straight line.
03. Wii Fit (Wii) - 4,530,000 - Standing still.
04. Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Wii) - 4,170,000 - Beating up Mario characters.
05. Grand Theft Auto IV (Xbox 360) - 3,290,000 - Blowing peoples heads off.
06. Call of Duty: World at War (Xbox 360) - 2,750,000 - More blowing heads off.
07. Gears of War 2 (Xbox 360) - 2,310,000 - Chainsawing people's heads off.
08. Grand Theft Auto IV (PS3) - 1,890,000 - Blowing people's heads off on the PS3 this time.
09. Madden NFL 09 (XBox 360) - 1,870,000 - I wouldn't really call football deep but at least it isn't blowing people's heads off.
10. Mario Kart DS (DS) - 1,650,000 - Driving in a straight line.

This is getting into noobland territory :/

At 8/21/09 03:14 PM, Deadclever23 wrote: 05. Grand Theft Auto IV (Xbox 360) - 3,290,000 - Blowing peoples heads off.

Hey now, grand theft auto has a lot of depth, in addition to being an awesome sandbox game. Plus they make it really fun to blow people's heads off.

At 8/21/09 03:14 PM, Deadclever23 wrote: Stuff

You seem to hate games action/FPS (or just violent) games yet you dismiss the best selling Wii games where there is little to no violence (SSMB is an exception but it's cartoony).

A lot of those games have a lot of depth - GTA for example, it has a huge rich world full of people doing things and interacting with you and each other, everything from weather to traffic patterns was taken into consideration during development. Call of Duty World at War had a deep online levelling system which allowed you to customise the way you play.. They all have depth, just in specific areas, you seem to be looking for mental enlightenment - this is not what sells games, thus looking at the top selling games of 2008 is not going to help you much.

At 8/21/09 03:41 PM, Coaly wrote:

At 8/21/09 03:14 PM, Deadclever23 wrote: 05. Grand Theft Auto IV (Xbox 360) - 3,290,000 - Blowing peoples heads off.

Hey now, grand theft auto has a lot of depth, in addition to being an awesome sandbox game. Plus they make it really fun to blow people's heads off.

That is true actually.
Fine then let's call it a really quite fun but mindless rampage.

At 8/21/09 03:14 PM, Deadclever23 wrote: 2008's best selling games -
01. Wii Play (Wii) - 5,280,000 - No depth hear.
02. Mario Kart Wii (Wii) - 5,000,000 - Racing in a straight line.
03. Wii Fit (Wii) - 4,530,000 - Standing still.
04. Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Wii) - 4,170,000 - Beating up Mario characters.
05. Grand Theft Auto IV (Xbox 360) - 3,290,000 - Blowing peoples heads off.
......................
10. Mario Kart DS (DS) - 1,650,000 - Driving in a straight line.

You can sum up any game like that. Care to give a examples of some games which have depth

At 8/21/09 03:42 PM, liaaaam wrote: You seem to hate games action/FPS (or just violent) games yet you dismiss the best selling Wii games where there is little to no violence (SSMB is an exception but it's cartoony).

I don't hate FPS games, I just find a lot the same.
I mean Halo 3 and Call of Duty are fantastic games but I'm thinking more of something ground breaking or artistic.
Wiifit is the biggest rip off ever while we are on that subject. It's a pile of crap.

A lot of those games have a lot of depth - GTA for example, it has a huge rich world full of people doing things and interacting with you and each other, everything from weather to traffic patterns was taken into consideration during development.

I must admit GTA is by far an exception, they did take blowing people's heads off to the next level.

Call of Duty World at War had a deep online levelling system which allowed you to customise the way you play..

It's a really good game but nothing strikes me as being very unique. A decent amount of games have such leveling systems now.

They all have depth, just in specific areas, you seem to be looking for mental enlightenment - this is not what sells games, thus looking at the top selling games of 2008 is not going to help you much.

I'm looking in the way of art or story or concept etc.

Perhaps it's just me, but I think the true killer of interesting games is Hollywood franchising, product placement, and straight up human greed. Why innovate, when you can just slap Spider-man on it, and make a mint? This is why Transformers2 sucked donkey balls. No one even cared about making a good movie. They just wanted to get paid...big time. Glaiel pretty much spelled this out on an earlier blog post:

Quantity trumps quality. The truth of this is what needs to be fixed.

:)

At 8/21/09 03:51 PM, CybexALT wrote:

At 8/21/09 03:14 PM, Deadclever23 wrote: 2008's best selling games -
01. Wii Play (Wii) - 5,280,000 - No depth hear.
02. Mario Kart Wii (Wii) - 5,000,000 - Racing in a straight line.
03. Wii Fit (Wii) - 4,530,000 - Standing still.
04. Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Wii) - 4,170,000 - Beating up Mario characters.
05. Grand Theft Auto IV (Xbox 360) - 3,290,000 - Blowing peoples heads off.
......................
10. Mario Kart DS (DS) - 1,650,000 - Driving in a straight line.

You can sum up any game like that. Care to give a examples of some games which have depth

Portal.
World of Warcraft.
Super Metroid.
Worms - Mainly killing but has something amusing and cute about it. Like a child's fantasy of action and war.
Halo 3 - Reasonably good story.
Need for Speed: Underground - Best driving in a straight line I've ever done.
Rome: Total War

At 8/21/09 03:53 PM, doctormario wrote: Perhaps it's just me, but I think the true killer of interesting games is Hollywood franchising, product placement, and straight up human greed. Why innovate, when you can just slap Spider-man on it, and make a mint? This is why Transformers2 sucked donkey balls. No one even cared about making a good movie. They just wanted to get paid...big time. Glaiel pretty much spelled this out on an earlier blog post:

Quantity trumps quality. The truth of this is what needs to be fixed.

)

I think you are oh so very right.
Let's hope Hollywood shall make more room for indie games in years to come (unlikely but here's hoping).

At 8/21/09 03:56 PM, Deadclever23 wrote:

You can sum up any game like that. Care to give a examples of some games which have depth

Portal.

Puzzles involving teleporting.

World of Warcraft.

Gaining stats for meaningless skills

Super Metroid.

never played it

Worms - Mainly killing but has something amusing and cute about it. Like a child's fantasy of action and war.

As you said, just killing.

Halo 3 - Reasonably good story.

Never played, but still just shooting.

Need for Speed: Underground - Best driving in a straight line I've ever done.

Driving in a straight line.

Rome: Total War

Taking over the world

I know there's more to these games, but my point is i'm summing it up in a way you summed up some of the other games which are good.

What exactly do you mean by in depth by the way? Because at the moment, it seems like you just mean having an interesting storyline.

Internet argument about video games, oh boy!

Flash Game Summit taught me one thing. Everyone has different opinions on what makes a good game and its not necessarily wrong to believe that a good game is determined exclusively by one defining feature, or that your opinion of what makes a good game is the right one for others.

Just my contribution! Enjoy your weekend!

Weekend
Anyone have any fun weekend plans? I'm going running 10 miles in preparation for my half marathon in 2 weeks, then off to ride bikes with fam.

At 8/21/09 04:03 PM, CybexALT wrote: I know there's more to these games, but my point is i'm summing it up in a way you summed up some of the other games which are good.

I suppose, discount that argument then if you must.

What exactly do you mean by in depth by the way? Because at the moment, it seems like you just mean having an interesting storyline.

Storyline, artistic value, concept, innovation, originality...etc.

Weekend
Anyone have any fun weekend plans? I'm going running 10 miles in preparation for my half marathon in 2 weeks, then off to ride bikes with fam.

Very athletic! Good luck :)

On the contrary - Americas obesity problems have only just begun.

Introducing THE KFC DOUBLE DOWN
Well, bye bye cholesterol.

At 8/21/09 04:09 PM, jmtb02 wrote: Weekend
Anyone have any fun weekend plans? I'm going running 10 miles in preparation for my half marathon in 2 weeks, then off to ride bikes with fam.

50 mile bikeride tomorrow or next Tuesday and then church on Sunday.

Double Down is man's greatest invention since the wheel.

NO LIFE

I've been sitting on my couch watching episodes of The Office since 10:30 this morning.

At 8/21/09 06:33 PM, Blackfang wrote: NO LIFE

I've been sitting on my couch watching episodes of The Office since 10:30 this morning.

That is nothing to be ashamed of. I would give up 5 schrute bucks any day to do that.

At 8/21/09 06:49 PM, jmtb02 wrote:

At 8/21/09 06:33 PM, Blackfang wrote: NO LIFE

I've been sitting on my couch watching episodes of The Office since 10:30 this morning.

That is nothing to be ashamed of. I would give up 5 schrute bucks any day to do that.

yeah same, but as long as its the real Office, and not that American rip off.

RE: Weekend

At 8/21/09 04:09 PM, jmtb02 wrote: Anyone have any fun weekend plans? I'm going running 10 miles in preparation for my half marathon in 2 weeks, then off to ride bikes with fam.

Since when is running 10 miles fun? Yo iz loco essé!

At 8/21/09 05:00 PM, Deadclever23 wrote: 50 mile bikeride tomorrow or next Tuesday and then church on Sunday.

No part of that sentence could be conceived as being fun.

My weekend will consist of some heavy drinking tomorrow (it's a mate's birthday) then watching Spurs (hopefully) thrash West Ham on the Sunday.

My weekend will consist of some heavy drinking tomorrow

Me too. It's no one's B-day. I live in wine country, and it's the bloody weekend. Kiss your Pinots goodbye.

At 8/21/09 06:59 PM, CybexALT wrote: yeah same, but as long as its the real Office, and not that American rip off.

What's wrong with the American version? Not only does it use a lot of the same jokes, it has great actors and actually good sound and video quality. It's not a rip-off it's a remake, to make it more for what American viewers are used to.

At 8/21/09 07:49 PM, chickendance333 wrote: It's not a rip-off it's a remake, to make it more for what American viewers are used to.

A shameless remake at that. The Office is meant to be a documentary, not a sitcom.

I prefer the US version of The Office, mostly because it's so hard to hear what they're saying in the UK one :(

Also, the US version have brighter colors, yay!

True dat, it needs subtitles or something...

At 8/21/09 06:33 PM, Blackfang wrote: NO LIFE

I've been sitting on my couch watching episodes of The Office since 10:30 this morning.

Don't worry - I spent a whole day watching Skins ;)

About game depth, Heavy Rain looks to be the deepest game ever made >:3 I still have a huge boner over that game.

About weekends, no I have nothing planned but the coming week is gonna be fun. I'm in middlesbrough atm (I had an exam yesterday so I had to come to uni for that), going back to Leeds early next week, my mates birthday Wednesday and then Leeds festival on the weekend :) Shall be awesome.

//

My friend is doing a programming degree of which the entire first year used C++ - he did (and passed) 2 assessments where he had to use C++ (firstly in a connect four game, secondly in an image editing application).. and I asked him to write a simple hello world program in C++, and he failed miserably. It's embarrassing - he wants to be a games programmer when he leaves uni and yet he can't pick up the basics of a programming language in a year. It also says a lot about the education system, I suppose. For those who have no idea what a C++ hello world program would look like:

I understand its incredibly difficult, but after a year you'd think that wouldn't be too hard.

At 8/21/09 07:44 PM, Kirk-Cocaine wrote: My weekend will consist of some heavy drinking tomorrow (it's a mate's birthday) then watching Spurs (hopefully) thrash West Ham on the Sunday.

That was such a testosterone-filled sentence. If you had mentioned guns it may have caused a pregnancy.

Weekend

Couple of parties + drinking + pic nics :D

I've been on holiday so long that days merge together and weekends aren't special any more which is both awesome and sad at the same time.

Also: thursday = GCSE results and Reading festival :D :D :D :D :D

Office Ripoff

UK > US, other than quantity.