At 11/19/08 06:49 PM, Toast wrote: There's no point in getting left 4 dead for anything other than PC, seriously. I can't even start to imagine how bad the controls would be for an xbox, how can you play a first person shooter without a keyboard and mouse?

I got the demo, and the controls are perfect for the 360. I did amazingly in areas I would suck nuts in on a Comp.

I don't understand why people play games on anything other than a PC. Maybe I'm missing something, but why would any of you buy an xbox or a playstation when you've all got computers?

Better graphics, more interactivity, bigger screen, faster start up, better online, voice chat without getting some special mic. take your pick.

You got like a hundred buttons on your keyboard, and a laser mouse, why do you need a shitty xbox controler?

It's much more confusing on a computer. What happens when you hit reload instead of shoot in the middle of a massive zombe horde.

Apart from the controls, not only does it look better on PC,

Graphic wise? No way.

but it also leaves more space for skill. I don't see where the skill is needed to play left 4 dead on xbox, you got like 4 buttons or something.

Well if you don't want to get shitted on then it requires skill.

I saw this guy playing it on an xbox and he couldn't even move backward when the zombies were rushing him, he just stood in place and shot the zombies while taking a shitload of damage.

please explain why

That guy sucks balls at the xbox.

And that's MY side.

At 11/19/08 07:19 PM, Alpharius120 wrote: I got the demo, and the controls are perfect for the 360. I did amazingly in areas I would suck nuts in on a Comp.

That's just because you suck at PC, still doesn't mean 360 is better.

Better graphics, more interactivity, bigger screen, faster start up, better online, voice chat without getting some special mic. take your pick.

Ok to be fair I don't have a lot of experience with 360 but I still doubt it can look better than crysis or far cry on highest settings. More interactivity -> how so? I don't see how PC is less interactive, in my opinion it's even more interactive due to the larger freedom of choices. Bigger screen -> again, it's just because you spend more money on your tv than your monitor .. You could buy a 30" monitor for your PC if you want but I don't see the point of it. Faster start up -> don't you turn your computer on when you're back from school or w/e anyway? Better online -> again, how so? There's a lot more people who play games on PC, and there's millions of people who have Steam (which I consider to be the best online gaming resource). Voice chat .. ? Just buy a goddamn mic, mine cost 5 euros and it works great

It's much more confusing on a computer. What happens when you hit reload instead of shoot in the middle of a massive zombe horde.

reload = R, shoot = left mouse. Seriously, how can you get them mixed? :-s
I'm probably missing something here because I don't think I ever missclicked a button in an FPS.

During my jaunts through AS3 this week I was under the impression that there were two primary hitTest methods, hitTestObject and hitTest (which is for bitmap). hitTestObject is really basic so I thought I was stuck using the bitmap hitTest. I coded this entire game in a method where I had to convert all my movieclips into bitmapData and then compare pixel by pixel alpha checks against different MC's and bitmap areas.

Glaiel-Gamer then brought to my attention that there was a hitTestPoint() function. I just about lost it.

Moral of the Story: Don't not rely purely on AS3 migration guides for "this then = that now"

At 11/19/08 07:56 PM, jmtb02 wrote: Moral of the Story: Don't not rely purely on AS3 migration guides for "this then = that now"

You're just NOW starting AS3? Jeez, c'mon guys! When will you all realize how great it is compared to AS2? D:

Hey guys, long time no see!

Ive been working my fucking arse off over the last few weeks on my uni PHP project. Id never really touched PHP before making this site, but I love it, so much!

Anyway, I went into uni today to upload the site onto the uni server and half of it didnt work... yay! I think its probably because ive been running it on a windows server and the unis runs on Linux... anyway Ive fixed the majority of it, i need to finish one or 2 last things but my main problem at the moment is content... The hand in date is tomorrow at 12 and I currently have 3 submissions on the site... this is where you guys can help me :P

The site is called shootSandwich, the idea is you create some awesome crazy sandwich, take a nice photo of it and post it on the site with ingredients and recipes, simple! Sandwiches can be commented on, rated, favourited, all the usual stuff!

Anyway i would realllllllly appreciate it if some people took the time to post something up there, even if its just an image off google or something. The site will look crap if its empty and I want to make a good impression against everyone elses (they are all simple image upload sites).

Id also appreciate comments on desin/functionality/bugs as I still have 10 and a half (and counting) hours until i need to hand in!

Cheers guys!

At 11/19/08 06:49 PM, Toast wrote: I don't see where the skill is needed to play left 4 dead on xbox, you got like 4 buttons or something

God fucking damn you, seriously. (no offense)

One of the things I ABSOLUTELY DESPISE is when people correspond "number of buttons" to "skill needed to play"

this is not about console v pc necessarily, it has a lot more to do with how people set up their control schemes for games, which is relevant for developers

Simplifying controls is usually a good thing to do. Less buttons makes a game easier to pick up (but in no way makes the game require less skill, unless the game is a button-fest like guitar hero where the whole challenge comes from pressing buttons).

Buttons are an INPUT to a game. They are not what makes the game. The decision making process your brain does really fast is where the skill comes from.

You should never put more buttons than you need to in a game.

For instance, in a flash space shooter, if you move with the mouse, you should shoot with the mouse too. Making space shoot is completely unnecessary and only serves to "spread around the button layout" making the controls more frustrating. Also, make the bullet go towards the mouse, don't do something stupid like having an "aimer" you rotate with arrow keys.

On a FPS, what do you need to be able to do?

Move
Aim
Shoot

That requires 3 input methods. On a PC, it's mouse, WASD, and click. On a console, that's 2 thumbsticks and a trigger button.

You now have a TON of free space to map out to whatever you feel like. So what else do you need? Jump, Reload, swap weapons (or "action button")

Action buttons are amazing things because the designers of a game will not make it so you would ever need to pick one or the other for the action, so why not simplify it down to just one button?

There is no need to have separate buttons for "pick up weapon" and "enter vehicle". Sure, having them separate might give you "more control" but that does not necessarily equate to more skill or more fun factor.

I have not played l4d yet so I don't know it's controls

IMO, the simpler the controls the more entertaining a game is (to an extent).

Of the 10-15 keys you say it uses on a keyboard, how many of those will you never press at the same time? Take all of those and combine them into one button, then have the game decide what to do. It's not making it require less skill, all it is doing is requiring less buttons to memorize.

Idiot, forgot the link! shootSandwich

At 11/19/08 08:23 PM, J1mp wrote: Idiot, forgot the link! shootSandwich

That site makes me really hungry

I'm gonna go submit a sandwich now :D.

At 11/19/08 08:23 PM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote: Move
Aim
Shoot

Reload, pick weapon, open door, choose from 20 voice chat commands to say to your party (like z->1-10, you don't need a mic for that), melee attack, heal self, heal teammate, turn flash light on/off, etc. the list goes on and on.

While that is not the main point of the argument, I just wanted to point that out. I prefer pc gaming, you prefer console. that's ok. the thing that bothers me though is that when you choose to play on a console that not everyone owns, you are kinda leaving people behind. everyone here owns a pc right, so if we all want to play some multiplayer game on pc it's not a problem. however if you decide to form a ng group for a console game not everyone is gonna be able to join, and it's stuff like that that tears the gaming community apart.

I'm going to sleep cya.

2:40 am already :0 time goes by fast when you're arguing on the internet

Hmm i wasnt actually considering getting it for the pc. :/
Right now my pc has 0 games on it.. it only has fla's and porn. I was trying to keep it that way :*(

I'll have to look at the game requirements.. one of the reasons i do get console games instead is because i cant stand playing a game with like low settings across the board... I am better off just playing a nintendo at that point, with the graphics set so low that the polygons are the size of dinner plates.

For fps i DO actually prefer the pc. my mousing skills are super percise whereas on xbox i get my pansy ass handed to me everytime.. i also think that its just about getting used to it.. i never dreamed of enjoying playing fps shooters on an xbox but it grows on you. I still do prefer the pc tho. If the system requirements arent steep then ill grab a pc. otherwise its me and spammy on the box.

At 11/18/08 05:44 PM, Toast wrote: Rant

I'll just give you a few examples of specific things I find stupid in my school (and apparently my school is one of the most tolerant ones in France as it is international; I feel sorry for the other people):
If you're most than 5 minutes late to a class you need to go to see some woman in the administration and tell her why you were late, and ideally she will write a little note for your teacher to say that you are allowed to go into class.

In my school you go get a slip if you're 30 seconds late, if you get 5 of those 1 day suspension

If you are absent in a class, you must present your excuse, and if you have none (like when i overslept morning classes many times this year) you aren't allowed to go to this specific class until the next day if you got your parent's permission with an excuse, or if you call your parents on the phone and ask them to tell this woman you are allowed to go in class.

Those are called cuts here 2 cuts = 1 day suspension its the same idea essentially

WHAT THE FUCK! why the FUCK would they not let someone go to a class that HE WAS ALREADY ABSENT TO?! Is that their solution? Make you absent to this class AGAIN so you can be sure you'll have to spend 4 hours at home getting the lessons from your friends and writing them on your note book? WTF!

That's the plan, schools hope you're self motivated enough to get that work that you missed done, the punishment is that it now takes you significantly longer than it would have if you went to the class. Being 20 minutes late to a class but then still going essentially requires no extra work other than some extra note writing in order to get what you missed

Another thing that bothers me is having to study a bazillion things that I don't give a shit about. I always see people complaining about math lessons and asking "why do i have to do this? When will I ever need to know this math in my life if I want to be a <xyz job>? ill just buy a calculator to pay my bills". As much as I disagree with this behavior and think that this world would be a better place if everyone supported science, logic, and common sense,

My arguement to that anything above pre-calc isn't common sense it is now math for math's sake and doesn't apply to them in the same way you don't feel literary analysis applies to you. I think the world not only needs to be logical but a morale thinking and imaginative bunch as much as a logical one. I believe you need to be able to see below face value or else we're helplessly doomed. This whole statement seemed REALLY narrow minded to me you're only seeing the merits in what you enjoy, as demonstrated by the writing below.

I do agree that people should not have to study things they don't give a shit about at this age. I agree with this because I have to study ridiculous things in subjects like french, economics, literary analysis.

my argument is that we should not have to study things we do not want to study. It's ok that you learn this stuff when you're 10 year olds, but once you're 16 or 17 and you decide something doesn't interest you at all, guess what, studying it more will probably just make you hate it more.

American and french school systems sound exactly the same. Required curiculum ftl, I can't even double up in art without it being a big deal. Thank god for outside classes. As for literary analysis go pick up a book up the short story book... 12 Short Stories and Their Making... You're wrong to assume that its all bullshit, a lot of it the reader brings in but a writer does have intent and a purpose and a meaning put into the words on the pages. In a good book every word is intentional. Even as a bad writer I put meaning and a message into every single thing I write, whether or not people get it is left to be unsaid. In all fairness literary analysis is a two way street you bring a portion the writer brings another, go read Lord of the Flies and tell me you don't think that the meanings people bring out of the book weren't there intentionally.

If I had only math, physics, and computer science classes, I am confident that I would be a lot more motivated to study at home. However, when i come back from school at 6 o'clock every day after 10 hours of stupid shit, I don't even want to study the subjects that most interest me (vis a vis physics and mathematics mostly).

10 hour school day and homework, christ hope you don't have the 3 hours a night we usually do here (well I do here). This is cliché but really its true. You are gonna do shit in your life you think is useless its cliche but true better to learn how to cope when you're young and get all those tantrums out rather than pissing all over your bosses fancy office because he tells you to do something that doesn't interest you. Whether or not one makes that connection, I have difficulty with it, coping is a skill and it really does need to be learned, a 5 year old freaks out when he has to do ANYTHING he doesn't want to, eventually he learns to cope.

This is how our school is very effective in one area: making students dislike studies. I find myself in a class of people who are already not very bright to begin with, and additionally, in the process of being in this shitty schools for so long, have lost interest in subjects like maths. Well, I don't know if they lost interest or not, because it seems like the huge majority of the school studies a lot at home. However I presume with confidence that they are only doing this because they "have to" and that's what they are used to.

Lack of motivation is common, people want a purpose in what they're doing school has no immediate and obvious purpose other than the abstract of preparing you for your future. Even filing at a large corporation has a direct impact on others lives, you not doing an english paper doesn't. From that it seems meaningless and in some sense it is, at least in my view school should be entirely collaborative with the community and your peers where very little work is for your own individual good but rather the good of the group, that way you see results beyond your self giving purpose.

Sometimes, due to my grades at school, I'm actually not sure if I'm a retarded person or a genius.

Generally the people I find smart don't get good grades, they're usually middle of the pack, in the lower end of the spectrum there are usually a rare few who are bright and intelligent. I can't judge if you're one of them, hell you could have some learning difference that makes you good at math computers and science but have a lacking in literary analysis language and other subjects. (absolutely NOT meant to be an insult) In general EVERYONE thinks they're smart at some level, in general smart and clever people get told their smart in the same way good singers get told they sing well. While others interpretations might not always be correct it can be a decent thermometer if you genuinely want to know.

Britain's A levels seem pretty unique and I'm extremely jealous but in general I kinda have to say make due with what you got and just apply yourself to the subjects you really like and enjoy and maybe not so much to the ones you don't.

Also you should make a game with me =3

At 11/19/08 08:23 PM, J1mp wrote: Idiot, forgot the link! shootSandwich

I submitted a BLT and it didn't show up :'(

At 11/19/08 08:43 PM, Luis wrote: otherwise its me and spammy on the box.

And Alpharius? Maybe?

At 11/19/08 09:05 PM, NG-Unit wrote:

At 11/19/08 08:23 PM, J1mp wrote: Idiot, forgot the link! shootSandwich

I submitted a BLT and it didn't show up :'(

Whoops! You must have posted it with out registering, you shouldnt be able to get on the submit page without registering, fixed that now. Try again after registering!

Thanks :)

I prefer the PS3 joypad for FPS games over the mouse and keyboard. People say mouse is more accurate, but how so? I'm able to fly through a map on COD:WAW getting kill after kill, headshot after headshot, 'targeting' someone as soon as I see them.. on PC I can do that too but slower =/ I do like PC gaming, but I don't have a gaming computer.. If I did, I'd still not game on it unless it could run games on high, otherwise what's the point when I can use the PS3 with pretty graphics :P

Left4Dead is great fun, all my friends are getting it friday from amazon so I'm just gonna play on everyone elses PCs =D

Re: L4D
Normally i'd agree with Toast about playing FPSes only on a PC. But slowly the console market has been getting better and better at making them playable. L4D is a shining example of just how far it's come (compare it to, say, Quake 2 on the Playstation)...

If and when I'll get it, I'll be getting it for the 360 or the PC. The only thing I'd get it for the PC for is so I can play with my brother.

Re: Theres an AS3 now?
Funny story. Job interviews I've had recently all want AS3, bar the job that's games related, and they've only just stopped using AS1.

Kfar saba
Xeptic did you actually know that ? or checked online ?
criminal duder
I know i am not the best audience..but i love you drawing style and humor..keep up the good work =]
Xbox update
Can someone please explain to me what was that good for ? except of the installation thingy ? they turned my Xbox into an ipod...
please do explain seriously

Re: XBox Experience update

At 11/20/08 08:22 AM, patu1 wrote: Can someone please explain to me what was that good for ? except of the installation thingy ? they turned my Xbox into an ipod...
please do explain seriously

It's to fit in with the new branding they've been ushering in since the beginning of the year. Seeing how Casual is the new Black, Microsoft has been latching onto the idea that while the Wii is aimed for people who haven't yet developed the ability to use thier thumbs (or lost said ability due to arthritis) and the PS3 is pitched squarely at hardcore gamer people who think they want all the fun of installing a PC game when they take a new game to thier friends house, XBox should now be the console that everyone else plays.

To wit they patched in a new interface (which I agree, is poor - I can no longer see every option of any menu and that's just CRAPPY user interface design) and the new Mii... sorry... Avatar system. Which allows you to have elf ears and motocross gloves. There's this new party mode which I'm guessing is an offline chat room for you and your friends outside of the game before you all go to play Halo 3 together, and a much higher emphasis on "Look at all the amazing graphics we can do - hey look! Box art! Avatars! Have you tried watching these movies?" features, rather than the bare bones that the Blades provided us with.

I disagree Mr Kayne West, I think NXE is a huge improvement. It has removed a lot of the nested navigation and reorganized something that is amazingly un-Microsoft of them. It's pretty, organized, simple but sensible.

For purists if you hit the guide button you can get a mini-version of the original Dashboard, which I find to be adorable.

Besides, unlimited Netflix streaming is awesome.

At 11/20/08 11:50 AM, jmtb02 wrote: I disagree Mr Kayne West, I think NXE is a huge improvement. It has removed a lot of the nested navigation and reorganized something that is amazingly un-Microsoft of them. It's pretty, organized, simple but sensible.

Oh I *LIKE* the new interface. Don't misread my cynical analysis of it as hatred. I just think hiding menus from sight by fading them out is an exceptionally lousy bit of interface design. I'm not keen on only seeing three out of fifty options on screen at once - especially when it's things like a friends list or a system configuration screen.

Also, call me Kayne West again and I'll shiv you.

At 11/20/08 11:58 AM, KaynSlamdyke wrote: I'm not keen on only seeing three out of fifty options on screen at once - especially when it's things like a friends list

[Generic quip about you not needing that feature anyway]

Also, call me Kayne West again and I'll shiv you.

Haha, I liked it, you should go into rap.

XBL Revamp
I didnt really care for it. It feels too kiddie. Im fine with it being like that on the wii.. thats a console for little kids and old people in retirement homes. Xbox always felt a bit more masculine.. and now feels a little kiddie. I do like the UI of it actually, its cleaner, each 'tab' really feels like a tab, the subtle color-changes of the file folder system before wasnt obvious enough IMO.

Havent tried the net-flix thing, and my current avatar looks like pico.

So who all has left4dead on the pc or the xbox.. im willing to buy whichever one has cooler people on it

so -1 right off the bat on the pc version since toast has it.

At 11/20/08 12:03 PM, citricsquid wrote: You can't FPS on a console. There's no argument about it.

Explain why, then, that Halo does so well.

Hey guys I just got my PC :) All the parts arrived safely so I'll be building it now, just need to buy some thermal paste and then I can use it. I got 15 euro gift from the place where I bought the PC so I guess i'll buy left 4 dead there, ill most likely have it in a few days.

At 11/18/08 03:23 PM, Coaly wrote: NG Calendar

</unwarranted advertising>

Oh, it's warranted!! :D

At 11/19/08 01:43 PM, Luis wrote: Flash Reg Gift Swap thing

Can gurls play, or would that be too weird?

At 11/20/08 12:03 PM, citricsquid wrote: You can't FPS on a console. There's no argument about it. Proof is in the "Assisted aiming" that consoles give, seriously. You can't aim with a joystick, with a mouse you pin point where you want to aim and FIRE FIRE FIRE and then they're dead, on a console it's like, it's like using the arrow keys on a keyboard to aim.

It's wank, consoles are fine for car racing games and what not, but FPS? Please, no, just no.

I have L4D, It's orgasmically awesome :D

All the FPS games I've played on a console have been amazing and I've been very accurate with the aiming. I can pull off a headshot in most games without any assisted aiming. Plus on a console it feels alot more intuitive for me. But most of this argument is based on what you play more. If you played an FPS on a console for 2 or 3 months I bet you would say, "Wow, console gaming is good."

At 11/20/08 03:42 PM, citricsquid wrote:

At 11/20/08 03:37 PM, Alpharius120 wrote: All the FPS games I've played on a console have been amazing and I've been very accurate with the aiming. I can pull off a headshot in most games without any assisted aiming. Plus on a console it feels alot more intuitive for me. But most of this argument is based on what you play more. If you played an FPS on a console for 2 or 3 months I bet you would say, "Wow, console gaming is good."

I played on consoles for well over 4 years before I switched to PC gaming, with a good PC, PC > console. People only go for consoles because a "good" Pc is so much more expensive.

It's only expensive to them because most people don't know what PC to buy, so they just buy an expensive one assuming that it will work good. For example, when i bought the PC that im using now (not the new one), i just went for it cause it was apparently good quality stuff and the guy at the store said it was more advanced than the thing i was originally going for, so i spent 900 euros on some piece of crap that doesn't even have a gaming graphics card.

If you know a lot about PCs, and especially if you know how to build one yourself, price is not a problem.

Where you play your FPS is a preference, not an ultimatum. Some people will be better on console and some on PC. For example, I grew up playing FPS on consoles (such as Goldeneye, Doom, etc) so consoles seem more comfortable to me. I have played FPS's with a mouse and I find analog control is still much easier for me to deal with.

I also feel more immersed when I'm playing games on a console. Every time I play a game on my computer (and that's a rare case because it's a Mac) I can't help but notice it's also the machine I do all my work with, the mouse and keyboard are tools I use for hours everyday all for work related stuff, they were never intended to play games with. Whereas my PS controller and PS3 are specifically made for gaming. I just sit down on my bed, turn on my huge-ass tv, pop in a disc and play a game. There's no wires, you can hold the controllers in your hands more easily, it responds to movement, it has force feedback etc. It's hard to describe but playing games with a console has a more 'gamey' feel to it. Even better is playing games with your mates on the couch whilst drinking a couple of beers, you can't really do that with a pc.

</opinion>

I know it's all opinion, but it's ridiculous and pretentious to say that one "requires more skill".