At 9/30/06 06:37 PM, 23450 wrote: really? i always thought of a job in flash to be a little out there...

Might just be the UK then...

Wow, all this thread needs now is for me to add my usual rant to the latest Reg Lounge.

It'll never happen though...

I got into flash through Dim showing me one of LFs movies, and then getting my very own trial version to play with. Never really looked back, but what not many people know is that my very first sumission was blammed! Ouch! Apparently a shiny magic 8-ball wasn't good enough for the NG public. Damn you all!

As for taking a break, I made the decision to take pretty much a 3 year break, in order to concentrate on university. I played around from time to time, keeping my skills fresh, and any time Dim needed something coded, I'd do that, but most of my time was spent studying and living :)

Now that I've finished my degree, I'm starting to lurk around the forums once more, desperately searching for a familiar face, and I've started up proper development again, but who knows when I'll ever get something done .

Tom~

To, youre done? well done, but its a shame. i wan gonna visit you in imeprial, coz my brother goes there. I hope you do get summin done mate!

At 9/30/06 07:06 PM, The-Super-Flash-Bros wrote: I got into flash through Dim showing me one of LFs movies,

Sounds familiar. Someone showed me to LF's site and I saw TMHY and got into Flash...

Now that I've finished my degree, I'm starting to lurk around the forums once more, desperately searching for a familiar face,

Welcome back. Not sure who you'd recognise, since you'd prolly started your sabbatical before I started using the BBS.

I do remember you posting that sunset done entirely with actionscript on the LF forums though. That was awesome...

How did the degree go anyhow?

At 9/30/06 07:10 PM, KaynSlamdyke wrote: Welcome back. Not sure who you'd recognise, since you'd prolly started your sabbatical before I started using the BBS.

I do remember you posting that sunset done entirely with actionscript on the LF forums though. That was awesome...

How did the degree go anyhow?

Haha, you're one of the few people I do recognise! Degree was lots of fun, learnt a whole bunch of great stuff that I may never have to use again, but hey, a degree in physics sounds impressive ;)

Tom~

At 9/30/06 07:14 PM, The-Super-Flash-Bros wrote: Haha, you're one of the few people I do recognise! Degree was lots of fun, learnt a whole bunch of great stuff that I may never have to use again, but hey, a degree in physics sounds impressive ;)

Tom~

More impressive than my B(Sc) Computer Studies at any rate.
Oh well. I know how to make stuff in 3dsMax and Unreal at least. Shame I don't have the fancy "Computer Games Programming" or Design degree I wanted.

So what are you planning anyhow Tom? Nightmare 2? :p

At 9/30/06 07:16 PM, KaynSlamdyke wrote: So what are you planning anyhow Tom? Nightmare 2? :p

Lol, it'll never be made! If it was, we couldn't make fun of it any more, and we're scared the world might melt or something...

Nah, I'm just playing around in AS again, getting my bearings back. It'll be a while before I get down to a serious project, and with Dim having just started at art college, production might be slow. Lots of fun though :)

Tom~

i seem to take more flash sabbatical than anything else. i find it hard to get myself motivated.

btw luis, till death do us part is one of my favorite newgrounds submissions. i group it with the few on ng that are emotionally compelling and touching.

lol and dfox i find that remark offensive. i strive to be a mature and non-ignorant 13 year old.

At 9/30/06 05:39 PM, animoney wrote: Here is a good question, how do you guys manage school/work and flash?

although i am not failing like 23450 (and am only in junior high), i find that schoolwork in addition to lack of motivation is a major hiderence (sp?).

tom, how is pk4 doing? i actually met richie zirbes in person when i visited colorado :-P

At 9/30/06 05:39 PM, animoney wrote: Here is a good question, how do you guys manage school/work and flash?

Yeah, I go to school every day hoping that I don't have an english class or a legal class. I get set heaps of homework for them and never do any =D Oh well, for the course that I want to do in uni, I need an ENTER score of 68 and just need to have completed english.

Games design and development. I learn C, C#, C++ and spend the first simester learning about what makes games good.

At 9/30/06 07:34 PM, Vengeance wrote:

Games design and development. I learn C, C#, C++ and spend the first simester learning about what makes games good.

Sounds like the courses we had in Teesside, only the "learning what makes games good" part always gets reglegated to a multiple choice test somehow...

I recommend reading a lot of books before you get there. Trigger Happy by Stephen Poole and On Games Design by Chris Crawford are excellent, very gonzo, looks at the industry and gaming

At 9/30/06 07:59 PM, KaynSlamdyke wrote:

At 9/30/06 07:34 PM, Vengeance wrote:

Games design and development. I learn C, C#, C++ and spend the first simester learning about what makes games good.

Sounds like the courses we had in Teesside, only the "learning what makes games good" part always gets reglegated to a multiple choice test somehow...

Those are my favourite types of tests because even if I don't know the answer I have a shot at getting it right.

I recommend reading a lot of books before you get there. Trigger Happy by Stephen Poole and On Games Design by Chris Crawford are excellent, very gonzo, looks at the industry and gaming

I'm not going there for another two years, but I'll be sure to read those books because it would probably reflect into games I design in flash.

At 9/30/06 07:34 PM, Vengeance wrote:

Games design and development. I learn C, C#, C++ and spend the first simester learning about what makes games good.

i just started school, so we havent started any specific language yet. we've just been learning the basis of programming in general, and mostly things common amopngmost languages. like arrays, for loops, decisions. if i was doing all my homework id probly be getting an a

At 9/30/06 07:59 PM, KaynSlamdyke wrote: very gonzo

Wow, i'm so glad you used that word. For that reason alone i'll try and find those books..

At 9/30/06 08:02 PM, Vengeance wrote: I'm not going there for another two years, but I'll be sure to read those books because it would probably reflect into games I design in flash.

Crawford's a very, very angry man at times. He got laid off during the 80's (when the games industry collapsed) by Atari after a distinguished record for making breakthrough games. He also got bought out of the Game Developer Conference when it went the way he didn't want it to go. Now he's a footnote in Game Design History and never talked about. The guy now busys himself with working on his Interactive Storytelling engine, Erasmatron, which he hopes will not revolutionise gaming, but will create a new medium.

He's therefore not advised reading for anyone with hope, but does give sound advice for revolutionising the entire thing. Home of the Underdogs has a copy of his game, Trust and Betrayal: The Legacy of Siboot, placed on it by Chris himself. He seems to endorse the idea of people playing his games without paying for them.

On Games Design has a tonne of ideas and a load of post-mortems of the games he did whilst at Atari. The book he released last year, On Interactive Storytelling, has tonnes more and some food for thought.

He's also one of my Computer Game Industry heroes, alongside Kieron Gillan, Peter Molyneux, and the Directors of Introversion Software. I plug him a LOT...

Other books I got through at Uni for anyone wanting some game design theory (all available on Amazon!):
- A Theory of Fun, by Raph Koster
- Trigger Happy, by Stephen Poole
- ...On Game Design, by Andrew Rollins and Ernest Adams
- Mu's Unbelievably Long and Disjointed Ramblings About RPG Design, by Mu (here)
- The Art of Computer Game Design, Chris Crawford (here)

At 9/30/06 07:59 PM, KaynSlamdyke wrote: very gonzo

At 9/30/06 08:09 PM, Mogly wrote: Wow, i'm so glad you used that word. For that reason alone i'll try and find those books..

For those unsure of the term, Gonzo journalism was (partly invented and) popularised by the late Hunter S. Thompson, a freelance journalist who had a great many articles published in Rolling Stone. He commited suicide early last year and his ashes were fired out of a cannon paid for by Johnny Depp. He's the nice person who wrote Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.

Gonzo's core belief is that distancing yourself from your subject is not only impossible, but makes for bad reading. Real journalism is about being close to what you're writing about, throwing concerns like bias, subject distinction, and the line between fiction and non-fiction to the wind.

Interestingly, Kieron Gillen (one of my other heroes on that list) is popularising New Games Journalism which seems very much like Gonzo Journalism remixed for the Games Industry.

Speaking of journalism, does anyone do anything for NG Mag nowadays? It always seems so... unappreciated in terms of content. Even the alphas section seems less exciting than the Portal.

At 9/30/06 08:26 PM, KaynSlamdyke wrote: For those unsure of the term, Gonzo journalism was (partly invented and) popularised by the late Hunter S. Thompson, a freelance journalist who had a great many articles published in Rolling Stone. He commited suicide early last year and his ashes were fired out of a cannon paid for by Johnny Depp. He's the nice person who wrote Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.

I'm about 2/3 through fear and loathing atm and saw the film a few years ago. I think this is suh a great way to read it, my vague memories of the film and Johnny Depp's accent in it just give you that mental image in your head. It's such an intresting book to read through, just because he was really that character.

Speaking of journalism, does anyone do anything for NG Mag nowadays? It always seems so... unappreciated in terms of content. Even the alphas section seems less exciting than the Portal.

Well the NG mag has been redesigned to look like the rest of NG.. which I think is a bit of a shame. I really like how it's just like a nob on the side of NG, but oh well.

At 9/30/06 06:35 PM, 23450 wrote:

At 9/30/06 06:28 PM, H3 wrote: Anyone know the average salary range for a Flash developer?
And how's the market? Is it still in high demand with low supply as I perceive it to be?

For a flash devoloper? not a clue. but some people have made a living off of it (luis, denvish, etc) but i would not count on it for a future job. i dont think there are alot of company out there spacifically using flash to make all thier money. some, but not many.

and im sure these jobs are not easy to find, and there is not a major shortage of flash developers out there i dont think.

specifically for me....what's a proper starting salary in New York, NY?
Thanks~

thats a little to spacific. you probably wont get an answer for it.

heh... Am only asking because I got a job offer making kiosk content in museums. Apparently they use Flash! I am most probably gonna accept the offer as the compensation is pretty decent.
Yea, never thought flash would lead to a career. Thank you newgrounds for sparking my interest in flash, which lead to my "expertise" with it~ :D

dare i say that this page actually had a majority of useful posts and knowledge?...

Anyway nice to attract new and old people, welcum back SFB. I think that portal history thing was such a special thing, it really puts shit into perspective as to how far along this site came and how many careers newgrounds opened.

While we are on the subject of books, i recommend that people dont always go towards the obvious answer in terms of expanding your knowledge. Sometimes picking up inspiration books will do great things for you. Dont always automatically go for the instructional type of books.

I just picked up a book on the art of the incredibles the other day and its a pretty cool book, it was inspiring seeing that even for a polished 3d animation (which i hate) there is still alot of 2d and plain old drawings and planning to it, everything from collages of magazine cutouts to models and shit. It made me appreciate the prep process.

Anyway the point is that you should wander around your book store, dont automatically go in there saying to yourself ok i need tutorials on flash.

-L

i thought i was the only one who doesnt like 3d. i dont know why i just never liked the look of it

3D can be bad and good I think. I think it's a lot easier to do than 2D, because it's just the same characters viewed at different angles with computers, but 2D has more work put into it, with talented drawings and frame by frame animation, for the most part. Tweens also show good work, if of course, the drawnigs are good, like xombie.

3D can look great too though, if done well, such as Advent Children.
The opening scene in Onimusha 4 was AMAZING, incredible stuff for such an unpopular game.

At 9/30/06 10:18 PM, TrueDarkness wrote: 3D can be bad and good I think. I think it's a lot easier to do than 2D,

I actually work very well in 3d, but can't draw many things in 2d. I think I understand shapes, but I don't understand perspective.... or something.

Shameless plug

I just launched mine and jockey's game fiven pls. =)

At 9/30/06 10:25 PM, Johnny wrote: I just launched mine and jockey's game fiven pls. =)

Fivened but my vote is worth like .01 votes so i dont think it did much lol.
The joy of level 1.

3d is lacking imperfections, it's too "perfect" but the imperfections are what makes something look good. 3d also seems like its trying to make you believe its real when 2d isnt always like that and 2d can make images even more realisic then 3d.
itd be nice to make a game thats 3d but everything is drawn 2d and goes to a different frame for every point of view.

At 9/30/06 10:37 PM, skooj-lik-chaah wrote: 3d is lacking imperfections, it's too "perfect"

I agree, from an art critic standpoint i like to see the actual touch of the artist, many times the imperfections are what makes a synj game a 'synj' game. Or a Minchamber pico, a minchamber pico. The crudeness of Marc M's 'last two men on earth' was what made it beautiful in a way. I dunno its tough to explain.

I dont totally knock 3d artists though, you guys do amazing things yourselves taking geometry and math and making art out of it. Its a much more technical approach to art which is enviable because i cant do it myself. So i think its apples and oranges and its ok if you like one and not the other but both are artforms and both should be respected.

-L

At 9/30/06 10:42 PM, Luis wrote: I agree, from an art critic standpoint i like to see the actual touch of the artist, many times the imperfections are what makes a synj game a 'synj' game. Or a Minchamber pico, a minchamber pico. The crudeness of Marc M's 'last two men on earth' was what made it beautiful in a way. I dunno its tough to explain.

-L

So what your basicly saying is that for something to be perfect it has to be imperfect?

3D is not easier in any way, its just...different. there is alot more involved in 3D then 2D, but most of the actuall "animation" involved in 3D is equivilant to motion tweening in flash. its the work that goes before that that i respect.

all in all, i like that things are not as "automatic" in 2D as it is 3D. artificial gravity, rigged characters, blah blah blah.

At 9/30/06 10:37 PM, Luis wrote:

At 9/30/06 10:25 PM, Johnny wrote: I just launched mine and jockey's game fiven pls. =)

Fivened but my vote is worth like .01 votes so i dont think it did much lol.
The joy of level 1.

I could of SWORN that at one point you had like so many blams and protects. Maybe I was hallucinating.

At 9/30/06 10:54 PM, TrueDarkness wrote:

At 9/30/06 10:37 PM, Luis wrote:

At 9/30/06 10:25 PM, Johnny wrote: I just launched mine and jockey's game fiven pls. =)

Fivened but my vote is worth like .01 votes so i dont think it did much lol.
The joy of level 1.

I could of SWORN that at one point you had like so many blams and protects. Maybe I was hallucinating.

He must get bothered by the deposit button alot, but depositing is like crack.
You do it everyday, you don't do it at all or your trying to quit.

At 9/30/06 10:25 PM, Johnny wrote: I just launched mine and jockey's game fiven pls. =)

Fifen'd

i actually dont goto the portal much, i only do so via word of mouth.

I only trust the judgement of my i-pals.