With this knowledge, we can see that the truth is not so simple as either "black metal is national socialism" or "black metal is not national socialism." The truth is that black metal, national socialism and Romanticism all share a common ancestor, which is the ancient Caucasian societies of Europe and India. Nazism is an attempt to bring back the aristocratic past; Romanticism is an attempt to explain its values; black metal is the translation of Romanticism into sonic art applicable to the machine age, which is shown by its tendency to take mechanical noises (distortion) and bend them into reflections of ancient melodies, like a scratchy recording sent through a time machine.

http://www.anus.com/..ut/metal/nazi_metal/

Black Metal is NOT friendly to Nazism! that insane theory of yours is as stupid as you probably are. this is idioty hidden behind pretty words.

At 1/29/06 03:33 AM, Mighty_Genghis wrote:

http://www.anus.com/..ut/metal/nazi_metal/

I immediately question any source with a name like www.anus.com

At 1/29/06 03:33 AM, Mighty_Genghis wrote: The truth is that black metal, national socialism and Romanticism all share a common ancestor, which is the ancient Caucasian societies of Europe and India.

Humans share a common ancestor with apes. That does not make humans apes.

At 1/29/06 03:47 AM, Kind_reaper wrote: Black Metal is NOT friendly to Nazism! that insane theory of yours is as stupid as you probably are. this is idioty hidden behind pretty words.

Would it be too much to ask for an argument please? As opposed to just repeating "I disagree with you, therefore you are stupid".

Anyways here is the argument again in a more condensed version:

I. Black metal is a Romanticist genre.
II. Romanticism has been associated through history with nationalism, as nationalism is an organic form of politics and includes:
(a) Racial segregation
(b) Aristocratism
(c) Fascism
(d) Meritocracy by ability (not money!!!)
III. National Socialism (NAZISM) is an extreme but pragmatic form of nationalism
IV. National Socialism was the last political movement to take into account interests of ethnic "whites"
V. National Socialism is beyond Jewish-Christian "morality" in that it does not affirm the importance of the individual over doing what is right
VI. Therefore, many of the founding black metal bands were sympathetic to NS or to its constituent ideals, even if not properly NS!

This really isn't that complicated...

Dude, get off your high horse.

Death metal is just shitty music, this thread has no place in anything affiliated with politics. But whatever, I won't lock it just in case.

At 1/29/06 07:08 AM, x_Toadenalin_x wrote:

At 1/29/06 03:33 AM, Mighty_Genghis wrote: The truth is that black metal, national socialism and Romanticism all share a common ancestor, which is the ancient Caucasian societies of Europe and India.

Humans share a common ancestor with apes. That does not make humans apes.

Actually we are apes. Because ape means a primate without a tail. You are indeed a primate without a tail, now aren't you?

At 1/29/06 08:08 PM, -poxpower- wrote:
Death metal is just shitty music, this thread has no place in anything affiliated with politics. But whatever, I won't lock it just in case.

This thread isn't about Death Metal , it is about Black Metal . You're inability to distinguish between the two genres shows a total lack of knowledge about either. By the way, I happen to appreciate both as respectable artforms. What 'superior' music do you listen to? And what do artists have to do in order to garner the omniscient respect of the almighty 'Poxpower', appear on MTV or something?

And yes, this thread and the ideas expressed in it very much relate to politics and society in general. It is a digital discussion over the notable correlation between Black metal musicians and their acceptance of the extreme political idealogy of National Socialism.

At 1/29/06 08:06 PM, Mighty_Genghis wrote: This really isn't that complicated...

Cute. Now explain how Black Metal itself shows or exhibits signs of supporting ANY of those political idealogies.

At 1/29/06 08:51 PM, Proteas wrote:

At 1/29/06 08:06 PM, Mighty_Genghis wrote: This really isn't that complicated...

Cute. Now explain how Black Metal itself shows or exhibits signs of supporting ANY of those political idealogies.

The artists don't necessarily support fascism per se, but they often share many of the same ideals, thus the music often reflects NS values indirectly.

This is dumb. It's like saying "Is rock and roll music friendly to sex and drugs?" Well, not all of it. Some black metal might cater to it, but that does not account for an entire genre of music. Way to generalize!

At 1/29/06 08:22 PM, Mighty_Genghis wrote:

This thread isn't about Death Metal , it is about Black Metal . ]

Please shut up.
That's like pretending Lacuna Coil and Within Temptation are two totaly different bands just because you want to be a snob.

; By the way, I happen to appreciate both as respectable artforms.

I bet you're under 18. I bet you're 17.
*checks profile*
Wow, 19. I was close.

What 'superior' music do you listen to? And what do artists have to do in order to garner the omniscient respect of the almighty 'Poxpower', appear on MTV or something?

Wow now that's pretty deep right there!
but if you must know: http://www.newground../topic.php?id=311999

And yes, this thread and the ideas expressed in it very much relate to politics and society in general.

Not even one bit.
Death metal is just a conspiracy to prove the human race as a whole doesn't have any taste, just like rap.

No, just shut up now before you make any more of a dumbass out of yourself. By your logic, black people have a skin pigment similiar to the color black, and black is affiliated with darkness and evil, therefore black people are bad(unless they do a Micheal Jackson). Or apes are primates, and humans are also an example of primates, therefore humans are apes. Even more examples:

Being a christian makes you KKK friendly,

Being conservative makes you racist,

A family member/lover of you has died,a nd every now and then you put flowers on their graves, making you a necrophilliac.

I could go on and on showing how much of an idiot you are, unfortunately it would get boring after a while and It would take several pages.

You lied about your password pox.

At 1/29/06 09:23 PM, -poxpower- wrote:

Please shut up.
That's like pretending Lacuna Coil and Within Temptation are two totaly different bands just because you want to be a snob.

Death Metal and Black Metal are two unique genres distinct from each other both in their histories and aesthetic implementation. If you actually bothered to listen to either you wouldn't say such ignorant bullshit.

Here is an excellent guide to start with:

http://www.anus.com/metal/about/history/

; By the way, I happen to appreciate both as respectable artforms.

I bet you're under 18. I bet you're 17.
*checks profile*
Wow, 19. I was close.

What does me being 19 have to do with anything? You're only twenty.

Wow now that's pretty deep right there!
but if you must know: http://www.newground../topic.php?id=311999

Here are the lyrics to an ACDC song:

(Oi, oi, oi, oi, oi, oi, oi, oi, oi, oi, oi, oi, oi, oi, oi)

See me ride out of the sunset
On your colour TV screen
Out for all that I can get
If you know what I mean
Women to the left of me
And women to the right
Ain't got no gun
Ain't got no knife
Don't you start no fight

http://www.bcdc.ca/lyrics/tnt.html

And yes, this thread and the ideas expressed in it very much relate to politics and society in general.

Not even one bit.
Death metal is just a conspiracy to prove the human race as a whole doesn't have any taste, just like rap.

Yawn, nothing more than an ignorant opinion. You just go and listen to "good" music such as Beasty Boys and Ace of Base.

Yeah, they are more than friendly. Butt-buddies, in fact.

err...i listen to tons of BM. yes there are a few nazi bands out there. but 99% of them are not in any way nazi related. name at least 30 bands that are nazi related please.

At 1/29/06 09:46 PM, Mighty_Genghis wrote:

Death Metal and Black Metal are two unique genres distinct from each other both in their histories and aesthetic implementation. If you actually bothered to listen to either you wouldn't say such ignorant bullshit.

Its MUSIC you oaf, not an history book. Who cares what they look like or come from? The only thing that is important is that hey sound the same, and that's LIKE SHIT. I'm sick and tired of listening to all these bands with stupid macabre names or shit like Gortik, Urraark, Demoners etc.
They suck.

What does me being 19 have to do with anything? You're only twenty.

Every death metal fan I ever met was usualy 16 OR 17.

Here are the lyrics to an ACDC song:

??
Yes and???
What the fuck is that supposed to be? Some sort of point?

At 1/29/06 03:33 AM, Mighty_Genghis wrote: With this knowledge, we can see that the truth is not so simple as either "black metal is national socialism" or "black metal is not national socialism." The truth is that black metal, national socialism and Romanticism all share a common ancestor, which is the ancient Caucasian societies of Europe and India.

So what? Just because they share a romantic foundation doesn't make them the same thing. And even if Black Metal were friendly to Nazism, what the hell would it matter? What is the point of this whole concept, other than to waste everyone's time?

At 1/29/06 10:09 PM, -poxpower- wrote:

Its MUSIC you oaf, not an history book. Who cares what they look like or come from? The only thing that is important is that hey sound the same,

They don't sound the same though. The fact that you would say so proves that you haven't ever listened to either. Maybe you listened to some Nu-metal and got upset or something?

They suck.

Death and Black metal deal with complex issues surrounding spirituality and society itself. The music you listen to only touches on simplistic issues such as getting money and hookers. It's funny to see you insult rap music when what you listen to is only marginally better.

Here are the lyrics to an ACDC song:

??
Yes and???
What the fuck is that supposed to be? Some sort of point?

That you music listen to is stupid and revolves around mainstream materialism, it is only marginally better than the rap music you claim to dislike.

At 1/29/06 10:25 PM, Mighty_Genghis wrote:

They don't sound the same though. The fact that you would say so proves that you haven't ever listened to either. Maybe you listened to some Nu-metal and got upset or something?

lets see...
I have Amorphis, At the Gates, Cradle of Filth, In Flames, Moonspell, Opeth and Soilwork. That's the shit I didn't delete from my hardrive for a reason I can't really remember. I have listening to at least 30 other "awesome bands" of those "two" genres, and they sound like shit every fucking time.

Death and Black metal deal with complex issues surrounding spirituality and society itself. The music you listen to only touches on simplistic issues such as getting money and hookers. It's funny to see you insult rap music when what you listen to is only marginally better.

I think its official: you're an idiot who gets his ideas dictated to him by MUSIC he listens to. Get a grip on reality. The sheer fact that you've been defending and attacking music solely on every non-musical aspects shows how much of a nicompoop you are :o
If Jesus was the lead singer for Carcass, they would still suck ass, and if Hitler became the lead guitarist of Madness, they would still rock as well.

That you music listen to is stupid and revolves around mainstream materialism, it is only marginally better than the rap music you claim to dislike.

I don't just claim to, I hate that shit.
And its pretty funny, because, again, like your typical death metal-loving teenager, you use the word "mainstream" to try and blast what people like, and to justify "liking" awful music.

I can't really change the fact that it doesn't turn your ears to pulp like it does normal people, but please stop pretending like Death Metal has any sort of social importance and stop attacking things that are meant for the ears by saying they talk about things you don't care about and the band members don't dress well, that's stooped.

At 1/29/06 09:23 PM, -poxpower- wrote:
Death metal is just a conspiracy to prove the human race as a whole doesn't have any taste, just like rap.

This thread isn't about death metal.

Saying Death metal is Black metal is like saying Kelly Clarkson is hardcore rap. It just isn't.

Black metal=dudes in face paint; fast, screeching guitars; rather washed over production; either operatic or screeching vocals (sometimes both; sometimes acoustic guitars; "hail satan" lyrics

Death metal=gore n' guts; heavy, downtuned, guitars; grunting ape like vocals; crystal clear production.

There's a major difference.

At 1/29/06 10:34 PM, -poxpower- wrote:

At 1/29/06 10:25 PM, Mighty_Genghis wrote:

I have Amorphis, At the Gates, Cradle of Filth, In Flames, Moonspell, Opeth and Soilwork.

Those bands are what you would call "Nu Metal", if you would like to figure out what Black Metal really sounds like then I would recommend that you try listening to
Burzum , Graveland, and Immortal as just a few for starters. http://www.anus.com is an excellent source for finding real metal music.

I think its official: you're an idiot who gets his ideas dictated to him by MUSIC he listens to. Get a grip on reality. The sheer fact that you've been defending and attacking music solely on every non-musical aspects

Keep in mind that music is supposed to be an art form. Through translating values and ideals into a sonic medium, artists express what they feel or imagine with an audience who might be completely unfamiliar to their ideas. You claim that aesthetic expression is not related to music when in reality it makes up nearly the entire sum.

When a band's values revolve around something stupid and pointless such as 'I have more bling than you dawg' or 'I totally rock hard!' the quality of the music suffers immensely. I would rather to listen to music that deals with complex spiritual issues because the experience is more gratifying. Not to mention that music that deals with better values/ideals almost always has superior structure and instrumentation.

And its pretty funny, because, again, like your typical death metal-loving teenager, you use the word "mainstream" to try and blast what people like, and to justify "liking" awful music.

The problem with the average person is that he/she will lack the intelligence and values to appreciate quality metal music. It is not death and black metal that is awful, but rather the average person.

Umm poxpower, for a mod you seem to force you opinion on people a bit too much. Its ok that you dont enjoy death metal and black metal (by the way, cradle of filth as of late are not black metal, and at the gates is more mainstream melodic death metal). But if you dont enjoy it, fine, just stop forcing your opinions on people, we can like what we want, and if you dont see what we see in the music. Fine. It doesnt matter. Dont be an ass.

At 1/29/06 10:59 PM, Mighty_Genghis wrote:

At 1/29/06 10:34 PM, -poxpower- wrote:

At 1/29/06 10:25 PM, Mighty_Genghis wrote:

I have Amorphis, At the Gates, Cradle of Filth, In Flames, Moonspell, Opeth and Soilwork.

Those bands are what you would call "Nu Metal", if you would like to figure out what Black Metal really sounds like then I would recommend that you try listening to
Burzum , Graveland, and Immortal as just a few for starters. http://www.anus.com is an excellent source for finding real metal music.

Also try searching for Black metal or something on www.metal-archives.com. That is about as close to official as it gets. Also, more bm bands you might want to check out are Gorgoroth, Mayhem, Aborym, Dissection, Emperor, and Nargaroth.

I think its official: you're an idiot who gets his ideas dictated to him by MUSIC he listens to. Get a grip on reality. The sheer fact that you've been defending and attacking music solely on every non-musical aspects

Keep in mind that music is supposed to be an art form. Through translating values and ideals into a sonic medium, artists express what they feel or imagine with an audience who might be completely unfamiliar to their ideas. You claim that aesthetic expression is not related to music when in reality it makes up nearly the entire sum.

When a band's values revolve around something stupid and pointless such as 'I have more bling than you dawg' or 'I totally rock hard!' the quality of the music suffers immensely. I would rather to listen to music that deals with complex spiritual issues because the experience is more gratifying. Not to mention that music that deals with better values/ideals almost always has superior structure and instrumentation.

Translated: Music is a way to express yourself. Duh. So it's almost assumed that there's going to be a political bent sometimes, or at least an ideological bent. Unless it's hollow music, there's some unconscious "message" with the music. Hollow music is ok, sometimes (read: Dark Funeral) but only if it has excellent talent and technical ability (again, read: Dark Funeral)

And its pretty funny, because, again, like your typical death metal-loving teenager, you use the word "mainstream" to try and blast what people like, and to justify "liking" awful music.

The problem with the average person is that he/she will lack the intelligence and values to appreciate quality metal music. It is not death and black metal that is awful, but rather the average person.

Exactly. I find there's about 100x more things going on in a Borknagar CD than a, say, At The Gates CD.

I listen to all metal, not too many are nazi, not even a fraction, there are nazis in EVERY music genre though, so saying it is exlusive to black metal, isn't quite true.

At 1/29/06 10:59 PM, Mighty_Genghis wrote:

Those bands are what you would call "Nu Metal",

they're what YOU would call Nu Metal, because I never saw anyone call any of those bands "nu metal". Ever.

Burzum

Jesus CHRIST that was awful. I clicked to the preview MPs to the first song. You can't tell me with a straight face that you like this.

Keep in mind that music is supposed to be an art form.

blablabla
No one listens to what singers say. Everyone is way too concerned about being intelligent to take the time to listen to someone who's job is to sing and write songs that rhyme and go well with a guitar.
If you absolutely want to attach strings to what you listen to, you're just making useless mental gymnastics. Go read a book god dammit.

You claim that aesthetic expression is not related to music when in reality it makes up nearly the entire sum.

Well after listening to that song, I can see why you'd say that, because it sure isn't the music that makes their song good to anyone.

When a band's values revolve around something stupid and pointless such as 'I have more bling than you dawg' or 'I totally rock hard!' the quality of the music suffers immensely.

You're insane. In your little world, death metal is great, and not because of the music, but because of its ideals, which are mostly "try to be a demon lord". You're just shooting down about every great band ever. The Beatles, the who, the doors, the rolling stones, guns and roses, the byrds, and oh shit, I can't be assed to name them. Basicaly you're just saying every band sucks because you hate their lyrics. You're nuts.

The problem with the average person is that he/she will lack the intelligence and values to appreciate quality metal music.

Hence why the average death metal fan is 17... yeah they're known to be the most mature and intelligent people around.

At 1/29/06 11:11 PM, MetalWarriorFromHell wrote: hi, I am 17

there is no way you're not 17.
Anything you say will make me think you're lying. ANYTHING.

Here's the breakdown folks:

-A lot of people hate rap
-A lot of people hate death metal
People who like death metal hate rap and vice-versa
Balanced people hate both rap and death metal.

Basicaly, you'll get two idiot sides preaching how awesome and great their shitty genre is, i.e. rap and death metal, and then everyone else in the middle, who actualy likes music, just hating both for the obvious reasons that it sucks.

At 1/29/06 11:35 PM, -poxpower- wrote:

At 1/29/06 11:11 PM, MetalWarriorFromHell wrote: hi, I am 17

there is no way you're not 17.
Anything you say will make me think you're lying. ANYTHING.

Good; I'm 20.

blah blah blah death metal

Like I said. This thread isn't about death metal. I hate most death metal too. It's about black metal.

This has to be a joke.
The author of this article makes a series of obscure references to tie a genre of music with a political idealogy. There is no evidence to back this up, but a series of definitions, one leading to another. It proves nothing about the beliefs of the artists whom base themselves within Black Metal. The guy who wrote that was just going for a little shock value, attempting to tie another group in with the nazis to make that new group 'evil', to increase traffic to his site a little.