At 12/6/04 01:46 AM, Umsutfeersme wrote: But you'd have to consider this-

Whenver I'm on the portal, (which is often) I can immediatly recognize what will be good, and what will be bad... Problem is, when bad flashes come up, I don't want someone looking at my vote record, and saying "well he voted 50 consecutive zeroes, he must be cheating." It doesn't work like that. A lot of the time 50 absolute shit flashes will be submitted in a row. I'm just doing my duty.

I don't know about that, man....I think there's better quality work on Newgrounds than that...50 zero-worhty submissions in a row? You must be either very picky or you're just quick to click on zero if you don't like it. Perhaps you should be a little more critical. Yeah, sometimes it's pretty clear that what you're about to see is bad and just needs to go away...but just as often there's something that deserves to stay on NG, even if it's not done perfectly or not your type of Flash. ..so it gets a 2. You follow me? Maybe you just need to be a little less "cut and dried, black or white, good or bad" with your voting...and protect something fairly, even if you don't like it but can appreciate how much work was put into the submission.

Good post Wade, that'll scare off the 0 or 5 voters.

Just a couple of points to address some concerns.

I'm not saying people have to watch an ENTIRE Flash entry. I'm saying you should watch enough of it to make a honest vote. I trust the voters to know how much of an entry they need to watch to decide how to vote.

The point I'm making is there are people who open and close the content window without watching a second of the entry and then vote just to get a vote in. People will go to the Portal, see 5 under judgement Flash entries, right click on all 5 titles to open them in a new window, then go through and vote, vote, vote, as fast as they can, and never watch a single entry.

With the information we log it's pretty obvious when someone is doing this. We're going after the big abusers here, they stick out like a sore thumb. People who do this occasionally won't show up on our radar as much, but I don't recommend taking any chances.

Also I'm well aware we might get 50 crap entries and a user could vote 0, 50 times in a row. That's fine, if all 50 entries were crap, and that will be pretty obvious to us.

Don't strain your brains to hard trying to figure out how we know who's cheating and who isn't, it really isn't that difficult, and we wouldn't take points away from someone unless we were positive they were cheating.

Same old, same old - "all talk no action". No offence Wade, i really do appreciate you taking some action, but you keep posting these "from this point forward don't be naughty or we'll GET YOU", and then seem to be doing nothing, because not less than six months down the line... along comes the same old message again.

I don't think that I should go passed the preloading screen if I can tell that the movie in jugment is not going to pass or in general going to receive a low score.

We expert flash users can tell the differents from a poorly made movie and a quality movie or a subpar movie just from the perloading screen or the first 30secounds. I know when the person dosn't know what there doing.

I think even if i dont watch the movie, only people who are big offenders who just mindlessly vote zero on everything are the people to watch for. Thanks to the people who vote zero there will never be a movie with a score higher than 4.5. Like you can have the best movie in the world and you can't get a score higher than 4.5.

Personaly even all the times i've never actaly watched the movie I've never voted Zero on a movie that earned there high or passing score, i've allways watched the movie the a few hours after jugment.

Just one more thing, like 80 percent of all submitions in aday are deleted. When I vote, even when i don't watch the movie, I try to be nice but if you look at my blam/save points, the blams beat the saves 4 to 1.

At 12/6/04 12:40 AM, FatherVenom wrote:

At 12/6/04 12:34 AM, Swive wrote: As I said, it's a common sense rule that people should view a movie first before voting on it.

Not everyone has common sense and it's not like it's stopped people before. I'm behind this plan 100 percent, but I know people who just come onto the portal and go at the judgement flashes. They don't use the BBS, they don't look at the front page and since they've been getting away with it so far they aren't going to see a need to change until it's too late. Just seems overly facist to me.

Fascist? Come on, they(admins)'ve got better things to do than to mess with crappy users that abuse a pretty cool system. Those who abide by the ridiculously simple rules and behave normally by voting fairly will never have anything to worry about.

For the people that don't read the front page news, tough shit!! Read the damn news!!! It's your responsibility as a good little NG user to stay informed...it takes all of about 1 minute every time you're on the site!!! How hard is that??? It's not like every user's getting forced to read 10 pages of bullshit...just simple notices here and there!

About the"voting on things we don't watch" would we get busted for voting for thing we've seen before and really enjoyed? 'Cause I haven't watch Madness Apothesis in around 3 days but I still vote 5 on it whenever I can... Which reminds me...

Is ther a time limit to the needed length of watching? Because I usually dont look at the author..and rarely the title of the submission until the movie has loaded so i base my first impression on the title screen. But if i open the movie and its that damned pupe muppet.....i just close it and vote 0...so is there like a time limit or just basing it people who do it en masse and without regard to honest work?

I think Newgrounds has better things to do than reset the Blam and save points in the database, like what ever happen to moderating the reviews you can click the aduse bottum 30 times and nothing happens.

I thinks it's only going to be the big offenders, the people who some how got around 1000 points in a week, oh ya! like that is humanly possable!

You should put the voting screen at the end of the movie on under judgement entries.

At 12/6/04 03:20 AM, BananaBread_Muffin wrote: You should put the voting screen at the end of the movie on under judgement entries.

and what about movies that loop?

My personal policy is this: If I can't be bothered to watch the entire movie, I won't blam it. If I think what I've watched so far is utter crap, I'll just abstain from voting on that entry unless I watch the whole thing. Yes, it usually is pretty obvious within the first ten seconds or so, but I'll still give a movie a chance.

A good example - I just watched a very badly drawn, poorly animated, poorly voiced movie about a half hour ago. As I was watching it, I was sure I was going to blam it.... And then at the end of the movie, it got REALLY FUNNY... The humor factor outweighed everything else.

If I had watched the first ten seconds of this movie and stopped, I never would have gotten as far as the funny part. This is why I don't feel that you can ever judge a movie by how it looks at first, or how the preloader looks, or whatever.

Similarly, I've watched movies that looked like they were going to be really great - and by the end of the movie all I could think was "Is this thing OVER yet? It's TERRIBLE."

So once again, I state my general belief on this - if you can't be bothered to watch the whole thing, don't vote on it. There's more to life than blam/save points.

Looking at my profile, it looks like I've blammed a little over twice the number of movies I've saved. But then, I take lots of things into consideration, and generally only use zero for total crap, and only use 5 for absolutely amazing.

At 12/5/04 11:59 PM, WadeFulp wrote: We would like to take this time to thank all our dedicated users who take the time to view all the entries that come into the Newgrounds Flash Portal and cast their votes, submit reviews, and help blow the whistle on Flash entries! If you would like to help out with this, all you need is a FREE NG account and head to the PORTAL.

However, we have been aware of some users abusing our system. They think it is fun to rack up the BLAM and SAVE points we award to our users who take the time to help filter through all the content. These people have been voting on entries without watching them in hopes of increasing their point totals. Well, we have news for you, we know who you are and are watching.

I always watch the movies before voting! Sometimes if the movie is crap half way through i stop watching and blam it! Is this ok? or do we have to watch the whole movie? The thing is if the movie is crap half way through its highly unlikely its gonna get better e.g a crappy stick movie! If you could answer my question ill do what i have to do ;)

At 12/6/04 02:31 AM, WadeFulp wrote: Just a couple of points to address some concerns.
I'm not saying people have to watch an ENTIRE Flash entry. I'm saying you should watch enough of it to make a honest vote. I trust the voters to know how much of an entry they need to watch to decide how to vote.

Sorry for my last post! i didnt see this, at least i know now im not one of the people your watching :) I see no point in just voting randomly, trying to rack up points! I watch all the movies i see before casting my vote, well at least i dont have to worry now i know im doing the right thing.

At 12/6/04 02:31 AM, WadeFulp wrote: Just a couple of points to address some concerns.

With the information we log it's pretty obvious when someone is doing this. We're going after the big abusers here, they stick out like a sore thumb. People who do this occasionally won't show up on our radar as much, but I don't recommend taking any chances.
yada yada...

Haha Wade, I'm going to call your bluff here. You've been saying pretty much the same thing for years. "We know you're doing it, now stop." Not once have I heard of you guys taking any action, which leads me to believe that you guys don't really know anything, but are bullshitting us into thinking we're being watched.

But hey, if I'm wrong it makes no difference anyway. I don't think I've voted pretty much since 2001. Hey, maybe your logs could tell me the last time I voted =D

Lots of people talking about the Blams, but does the same thing go for the Saves? Lately there seem to be multiple groups of people cranking out one or two movies a DAY and submitting them under several authors, and getting mass votes to get them past judgement with like a 2.5 score. Plus I imagine people who see these pass judgement every time get sick of seeing their blams go to waste and then just decide to vote 2 so they'll at least get a save point. Will these get some punishment too? You'd think people get tired of repeating the joke that enough votes can get the worst entry past judgement, but apparently that's not so.

At 12/6/04 02:39 AM, MurderMunkey wrote: About the"voting on things we don't watch" would we get busted for voting for thing we've seen before and really enjoyed? 'Cause I haven't watch Madness Apothesis in around 3 days but I still vote 5 on it whenever I can... Which reminds me...

I'd be interested to know about this. I tend to vote 5 on most of the movies in my favourites every couple of days or so. Is this ok?

Also, if people really care that much about blam and protect points they would be far better off watching the movies and games anyway. They must have realised by now that blindly voting on under judgement movies/games can result in a much higher percentage of lost B/P points.

I'm hoping that, even if only temporarily, this will result in fairer scores for under judgement movies. I have seen a lot of things blammed that didn't deserve to be because they were first submissions. A great deal of b/pers automatically vote zero on first submissions, which is completely unfair.

At 12/5/04 11:59 PM, WadeFulp wrote: New rule.

What if the animation is clearly below passable standards but is 10 minutes of still images, does that mean we'll be penalised for only watching only part of it?

What if the animation is clearly below passable standards but is 10 minutes of still images, does that mean we'll be penalised for only watching only part of it?

I guess there would certainly be an exception to my rule, I hadn't thought about that. But if you read the posts that Wade has made, he made it clear - they aren't going to penalize people necessarily for voting after only watching part of a movie. I was just saying that I believe - in general - you SHOULD watch an entire movie before voting.

Of course, if someone posted a "Happy Kitten Slideshow" that went on and on and on for ten minutes, I wouldn't watch the whole thing.

Well, depending on how happy the kittens were. ;)

At 12/6/04 04:57 AM, pythagoras- wrote: Not once have I heard of you guys taking any action, which leads me to believe that you guys don't really know anything, but are bullshitting us into thinking we're being watched.

What do you expect? A daily report on the front page of who has been reprimanded?

Wade makes these posts every now and then so that when people start to lose points, or even their accounts, it doesn't come as a complete shock to their system.

Ah, that's why I always saw the voting panel before i had viewed the flash file. Well, I see now that it is fixed, that's better :)

At 12/6/04 06:07 AM, Cheesius wrote: Of course, if someone posted a "Happy Kitten Slideshow" that went on and on and on for ten minutes, I wouldn't watch the whole thing.

I can't imagine a badly made "Arena Sticks" thing which never seems to end...

Well, depending on how happy the kittens were. ;)

You mean cute, cuddly and horribly wrong like the Happy Tree Friends?

I have to admit that I sometimes do that. So do most people I guess.

That, as in I open a movie, look at the first seconds and then vote. Some movies are just obviously asking for their voting if you know what I mean. That doesn't mean I'm unfair to the movie or anything, but I'm just a "normal" guy.
Plus, most of the time, when I vote low on a movie, this movie tends to get blammed, meaning most of the other people also thought the movie deserved to be blammed.
But that doesn't mean I do not watch the movie at all. But still, if you guys say you have some sort of system to track what we do, then I better believe it.

I am feeling quite concerned by this matter. Seeing how you mentioned people with high B/P, and me being one of them.
Not that I'm directly concerned or anything (at least, I think), but it still makes me think and wonder.

PS:
This is only valid for Under Judgement movies, right ?
I mean, would it be OK to keep voting 5 everyday on your fav. movie of the Top.50 without always watching it ?

So lemme get this as straight as possible...
I understand the whole "watch it first then vote" thing, But just how much of a movie/game do we have to watch/play?
Does this rule also apply to the rampant flaggers? (somehow I know there are some out there...)
If so, what kind of direct punishment do they recieve?
How many offenses will it take for more serious action to be taken? Not that I'm susceptible to it...
What about submissions that already passed? I always vote 5 on submissions on my favorites. Will I be punished for that?
Wouldn't you be able to semi-avoid being caught be occasionally voting 1 or 4?
Is there any way to redeem yourself, or fight your case, if you're labeled?
Why don't you take this sort of action against people who constantly spew out crappy entries? Shouldn't they be banned for about a week for that?
And last but not least, wouldn't it be easier to delay the vote panel's loading to give these rampant voters time and reason to watch at least some of it? Or can't that be done? I wouldn't know...

you said something similar less than two months ago. and probably before that, too.. i have yet to hear of anyone whom i am fully aware is doing this punished.

At 12/6/04 06:15 AM, liljim wrote: What do you expect? A daily report on the front page of who has been reprimanded?

That would be awesome. Then we can point and laugh at 'em when they lose hundreds or even thousands of blam points.

At 12/6/04 07:00 AM, AlredyTryed wrote: Why don't you take this sort of action against people who constantly spew out crappy entries? Shouldn't they be banned for about a week for that?

People who do that are auto-banned for thirty days.

hmm i sort of do what wade describes by voting only 0s and 5s but i have a reason.. what's the point in voting a 1 when you are going to blam it anyway? a 0 has more power. When a flash is good i will vote a 5 because it has more power to give it a higher score (it could be the last vote to just bring the score high enough to keep it in the portal).. I watch the entries (not always all of them). Of course it probably wouldn't work if everyone did it but it works at the moment. If you looked at my voting habits you could think i am just trying to rack up points with pretty much all 0s and 5s but i just think it means my votes are more powerful and i actually watch the entries as well so would i still get my blams and saves taken away?

I don't think file size should be a criterium.

Just take a look at this movie...it's tiny yet funny!

The Bar

God wade you make us feel like we're raping your children lol.