Yikes! I guess that "joint military exercise with Belarus" was a little more than a joint military exercise...(fuck you, Belarus)

So as we can figure out: it's a little too late for any deterrent from Russia invading Ukraine, because you know, they already have...and direct military action isn't really on the table either. I mean it is, but who really wants to go to war with a nuclear superpower? These aren't rice farmers in jungles, or guerrilla fighters in the desert. This is a well organized military with sophisticated equipment and weaponry that can go toe-to-toe with the United States and NATO. Meaning: a war with them will be a whole different warfare that no country has experienced since the last World War, and that was without the sophisticated technological advances we have today (missiles, drones, UAVs) this would be a whole different scenario with today's warfare.

We could have placed active troops alongside the Poland/Ukraine border to keep an alert eye on Russia, and to give them a sense of military presence. You know? To let Russia know, that we won't stand by while they do "military exercises"

So far this is just an invasion on the Eastern parts of Ukraine, but with a little uncertainty sprinkled here and there, Russia can claim "self-defense" giving themselves a reason to invade Ukraine in-full. (I know, it's silly. You break into someone's house and shoot the guy who's home, then claim that you were in danger)

We all know Putin isn't going to give back the areas he's already occupying, since it's a key area that chokes off Crimea. And the whole point of this invasion was to bring back former Soviet Union territories back into the Russian Federation.

So that brings the question: What can we do now that doesn't involve military conflict with Russia?

Honestly, unless you want a war with Russia, it's best to leave Ukraine and Russia to themselves, since peaceful diplomatic options are no longer on the table.

Seriously, good luck to anyone who is living in Ukraine right now, and I'm sorry that what has happened has happened.

Just something I found interesting. Look at CBC World News compared to BBC World News.

Why are these outlets weighing the events so differently?

Apparently, Putin justified the invasion by saying that he wanted to “demilitarize and de-Nazificate” Ukraine.

Different geographical urgency, I'd wager.

They aren't? If you go to the CBC world site it is their leading story.

Putin went full schizo. The Ukrainian president is Jewish??

Hmm, perhaps there's a difference in what ends up on their RSS feed vs what they're actually reporting on, then.

Maybe it wasn't refreshed or something? Not sure.

Has anyone seen any estimates on when Russia may completely take Kyiv? It seems inevitable at this point and I have seen reports that they want to replace the government of Ukraine.

At this point, a couple hours since they are within miles of it.

Ragıp Soylu on Twitter: "BREAKING — Hostomel, a town at a 39km distance to Kyiv has fallen to Russian forces, — UNIAN" / Twitter

Like I said, the speed of their advance has been astonishing. The Russia/China alliance is no joke, folks. While we wasted time at home on petty minutiae and wasted blood and treasure on pointless adventures abroad, they studied the blade.

There are plenty of things we can do to help Ukraine besides literal direct military intervention. We can supply Ukrainians with armed military equipment, which is what several countries (UK, USA, Canada and probably others) are already doing. We can supply them with medical aid. We can take in refugees, which Poland is already doing an immense amount of. We can do a lot to help Ukraine without triggering Putin's "immediate response" threat, at least for now.

We can't just abandon Ukraine and "leave it to themselves" to figure out, when there is still so much that we can do for them. And think about it, what happens if Russia overtakes Ukraine completely? Do you honestly think they'll stop there? I think it's safe to say they won't. As you said, Russia is interested far more territory: all the former Soviet Union and then some. If Putin doesn't see any sign of needing to stop after capturing Ukraine, then he is not going to fucking stop, he will send his troops are throughout Europe if he is able to. And then his threat of "immediate response" won't matter anymore.

This whole "sorry lol thoughts and prayers" thing is probably the worst attitude the world can be taking right now. We need to stand with Ukraine and we need to help defend them however we can, while also being pragmatic of course.

Biden making it clear NATO is russia's bitch. """"Sanctions"""" = not doing shit.

1st, they won't actually sanction russia, they'll pull off the equivalent of being offended and looking in the other direction. They don't dare touch the guy's plan.

2nd even if they did "sanction" russia, russia is still left with complete control of an entire fucking country, and a pretty damn big one. Seems to me that the difference is pretty profitable.

1. There were massive sanctions placed on Russian banks, a block on technology exports, and even directly on some actors.
2. Russia won't be able to keep control of the entire country. Ukraine is a country of 44 million people.

The alternative to sanctions is putting American lives in danger and more than likely starting a nuclear war. I know you probably have a hard on to shit on Biden, but he hasn't done anything that warrants it yet.

The most important thing in this context is how much Russia actually depends on Western money/technologies? And whether it can still continue to function in "business as usual" mode basing only on their relations/ties with Latin America, Middle East and Asia, especially China?

At this point, sanctions and sending weapons and gear to future Ukrainian resistance fighters is the best that we can do. As for sanctions, there is only one truly effective way to bring economic ruin to them, have any and all offshore accounts that is tied to Russia in any way frozen and taken away, along with cutting off any business ties with Russian companies. Turns out, the oligarchs are starting to feel the pinch, and once it trickles down to the rest of the people, Putin will have to eventually back down. Of course, that is the most optimistic scenario, and I have my doubts on even getting that far.

I don’t think that Ukraine will last much longer as a whole, but fostering resistance groups there against Russian occupation will drain their will to fight.

Meanwhile... Trump continues to praise Putin, forcing GOP to fall in line or splinter from former president

Take all news with a grain of salt. That being said this is floating around.

Illia Ponomarenko on Twitter: "10,000 automatic rifles have been given to regular civilians in Kyiv in the last few hours - Interior Minister" / Twitter

Kevin Rothrock on Twitter: "Over the last few hours, more than 10,000 automatic rifles were distributed to the residents of Kyiv, says Ukraine’s Interior Ministry. That is a lot of guns. https://t.co/AFeSE5IFpP" / Twitter

:There were massive sanctions placed on Russian banks, a block on technology exports, and even directly on some actors.

i still get the feeling putin doesnt care that much tbh, hasnt made a big deal about it. Besides, it only strengthens their relations with china.

Russia won't be able to keep control of the entire country. Ukraine is a country of 44 million people.

well, hopefully. it's still a possibility though. Putin doesnt seem to be fucking around, practically invaded the entire nation overnight.

with nato not stepping a foot in the country, anything can happen. it's russia.

: The alternative to sanctions is putting American lives in danger and more than likely starting a nuclear war. I know you probably have a hard on to shit on Biden, but he hasn't done anything that warrants it yet.

That's true for the meantime, but on the long term shit can get scary. The message here is "we wont stop you because we are scared", it's a pretty worrying image really.

so we're just gonna close our eyes and scream "la la la" while putin invades ukraine, okay, but what happens after? russia basically establishes itself as the big bad superpower that nobody is willing to say "ah" to. And they just invaded the country right next to NATO, thats a tight situation right there.

well their military equipment in a lot of cases surpasses what nato has to offer. And like, they are allied to china. Everything you have is from china. what will russia be missing out on in that regard?

At 2/24/22 04:01 PM, CitizenGoose wrote:

:

: i still get the feeling putin doesnt care that much tbh, hasnt made a big deal about it. Besides, it only strengthens their relations with china.

Which is my number 1 problem with the sanctions regime. My number 2 problem is that sanctions are a method of conflict resolution that mostly hurts the innocent civilians.

Would you expect him to say, "Wow, these sanctions sure stink"???

If they attempt to invade a NATO country then nuclear war is on the table. They won't do that though, which is one of the many reasons they are against Ukraine joining NATO.

So you want to send American troops to Ukraine? What is your alternative solution to sanctions if that is the problem you have with the "sanctions regime"?

No, and just once it'd be nice for you to not jump to conclusions based on your own biases, and nothing at all, actually. Russia's sphere of influence is not our business and not within our capacity to change. We would be better served focusing on domestic matters. For example, by not relying on our geopolitical rivals for all of our key manufacturing and resources. Someone got elected years ago by talking about this!

It's in the process of NATO Acension Program and does drills with NATO allies, it can request aid if it wants to my knowledge, NATO intervened on the UN behalf for the bosnian war theres more than enough precedent.

What's depressing is people like you screaming MUH NUKEZ, no one is going to use nuclear weapons because:1 its mutually assured destruction 2. It totally discredits the first one who launches it then China would probably side with the West because no one would side with a suicidal swan dive like that.

People like you who wants to play diplomacy with a Russian fucking midget who's playing a game of nuclear hostage, then coming out like Neville Chamberlain with a piece of paper with Hitler saying he's willing to play nice with the other kids.

This needs to be dealt with militarily end of discussion because all it does is enables Putins bullshit, first it was Georgia now it's Ukraine who's it going to be next for people like you to get off your assets and realize sanctions aren't going to work? Because they aren't russia is pretty self sufficient not completely it's not North Korean Juche level but it still trades with the Stan's and China.

Sanctions aren't going to do shit if it's actually hard we're talking disrupting supply chains and communications like dneying them access from global internet infrastructure.

That is not jumping to conclusions and sorry if you think it was. If you have a problem with sanctions, then either you support troops on the ground or inaction, which is even more pathetic. We have to respond somehow and sanctions is the best way to keep American troops safe. It is also a unified effort because America is not the only country sanctioning Russia, our allies are too.

I think it should be made clear that the west will not involve itself with any protests to the war within Russia or attempts to depose Putin, because that would be counter-productive.

Nor try to profit from or exacerbate any instability these may cause.

We should also be prepared to treat Russia with forgiveness and understanding if they choose to back down.

Sanctions are one way of trying to getting them to stop, but Putin at least obviously does not think that is enough.

I don’t think we should let people causally invading European countries get off so easily though.

To send the right message across I think we should try and scare the bejesus out of them by irresponsible displays of military force and violent rhetoric just coming short of actually engaging with them.

Show them we have the balls.

I'm glad that you and I can agree that's full of shit.

It’s like something the Soviets would say.

We sent Javelin shoulder-launched missiles to Ukraine a while back to help against tanks and heavily armored vehicles, along with ammunition and arms. That won't be enough to fight them off, they need adequate defensive measures in the means of air defense systems.

Would've been nice if they had some of those before you know, Russia yeeted major cities with air-to-ground missiles.

Why should we? Russia instigated this whole mess from the start even after repeated pleas from Ukraine and NATO to stop. Russia is rightfully being condemned for this, and will continue to be even if they surrender.

This seems like an easy way to escalate the conflict even further, which is a bad idea considering that Russia still has nukes at their disposal.

Meanwhile on the other side of the planet...

https://nypost.com/2022/02/24/taiwan-warns-chinese-aircraft-in-its-air-defence-zone/