At 2/25/22 12:04 AM, SatanBrain wrote:At 2/24/22 08:40 PM, grimview wrote:At 2/24/22 03:14 PM, HavryloThePigeon wrote:At 2/24/22 11:43 AM, ZomAlien wrote:Yikes! I guess that "joint military exercise with Belarus" was a little more than a joint military exercise...(fuck you, Belarus)
So as we can figure out: it's a little too late for any deterrent from Russia invading Ukraine, because you know, they already have...and direct military action isn't really on the table either. I mean it is, but who really wants to go to war with a nuclear superpower? These aren't rice farmers in jungles, or guerrilla fighters in the desert. This is a well organized military with sophisticated equipment and weaponry that can go toe-to-toe with the United States and NATO. Meaning: a war with them will be a whole different warfare that no country has experienced since the last World War, and that was without the sophisticated technological advances we have today (missiles, drones, UAVs) this would be a whole different scenario with today's warfare.
We could have placed active troops alongside the Poland/Ukraine border to keep an alert eye on Russia, and to give them a sense of military presence. You know? To let Russia know, that we won't stand by while they do "military exercises"
So far this is just an invasion on the Eastern parts of Ukraine, but with a little uncertainty sprinkled here and there, Russia can claim "self-defense" giving themselves a reason to invade Ukraine in-full. (I know, it's silly. You break into someone's house and shoot the guy who's home, then claim that you were in danger)
We all know Putin isn't going to give back the areas he's already occupying, since it's a key area that chokes off Crimea. And the whole point of this invasion was to bring back former Soviet Union territories back into the Russian Federation.
So that brings the question: What can we do now that doesn't involve military conflict with Russia?
Honestly, unless you want a war with Russia, it's best to leave Ukraine and Russia to themselves, since peaceful diplomatic options are no longer on the table.
Seriously, good luck to anyone who is living in Ukraine right now, and I'm sorry that what has happened has happened.
There are plenty of things we can do to help Ukraine besides literal direct military intervention. We can supply Ukrainians with armed military equipment, which is what several countries (UK, USA, Canada and probably others) are already doing. We can supply them with medical aid. We can take in refugees, which Poland is already doing an immense amount of. We can do a lot to help Ukraine without triggering Putin's "immediate response" threat, at least for now.
We can't just abandon Ukraine and "leave it to themselves" to figure out, when there is still so much that we can do for them. And think about it, what happens if Russia overtakes Ukraine completely? Do you honestly think they'll stop there? I think it's safe to say they won't. As you said, Russia is interested far more territory: all the former Soviet Union and then some. If Putin doesn't see any sign of needing to stop after capturing Ukraine, then he is not going to fucking stop, he will send his troops are throughout Europe if he is able to. And then his threat of "immediate response" won't matter anymore.
So far the pattern has been to take a bite & stop, then wait & repeat. They took the Crimea in what, 2014 till some date. Now they are taking another bite & maybe they will take all of Ukraine this time, but it makes sense to wait. The past mistake is spreading forces to thin to be able to hold the ground. Russia needs time to chew so that the people they capture so they will emerged as loyal after some re-education.
USSR failed to re-educate people and they had almost a century. Putin plans to install a puppet regime.
Then in maybe another 8 years take another bite out of another country.
Why wait 8 years when you can wait 8 days? Is NATO going to fight over Moldova?
It use to take 15 years to raise the next generation to support the new government. However, I'm thinking they found a way to reduce that time frame, perhaps they learned from China's success where many of the people running the police & re-education facilities are the same ethnicity as the prisoners. This allows China to maintain in control over the area without wasting its own military to control the population; there by, allowing military to be free to go elsewhere & even get some new recruiters. Yes, there will be a puppet leader, but they need still need public support that leader, to avoid a repeat of the Taliban taking over Afghanistan, when the military leaves to conquer the rest of the world. Look at how Russia & China assisted Vietnam, Korea or even recently in Syria. What is the pattern?
Maybe convince Ireland,
Ireland or Northern Ireland?
Wales or Scotland to leave the UK & then send troops to support their liberation from oppression.
The Baltic countries would be the more sensible choice.
I'm sure they try many countries all the time, but the user I replied to was from the UK. In the US, I would have said California because they constantly threaten to leave & make similar claims, like Putin's SJW claim of stopping Nazis from harming the Russian speaking minority. Obviously those nazis need to be taught tolerance by any means necessary to make up for past oppressions. The Ukraine president even declared a Total War by literally handing guns to anybody.
