At 8/3/07 11:21 AM, PenisClown wrote: All I gave was my philosophy as an Agnostic. As TakeNoPrisoners said, it was my opinion.

Right, I respect that, but you didn't say you were Agnostic. What you said was attacking me so I had to do something.

I take the view that while we cannot prove the existance of god, we also can't say he doesn't exist.

...

I never, and any point, said that a god didn't exist, nor did I try to prove/disprove god's existance.

right.

My head is no where near my arse.

Yes it is.

At 8/3/07 11:25 AM, batman64 wrote: I have heard a little christian black metal and it was pretty good.
For real good Christian Doom listen to Trouble's first couple albums, some real good stuff there.
The main reason I never really speak up in religious talks is the fact that I take a strong Zen approach to my christianity, live and let live.

Congratulations, people like you are way too rare (or at least, I have met almost no people like you.)
I'm agnostic myself (pastafarian every now and then:p), but a long as somebody doesn't try to give their religion or opinion to the rest of the world, they can believe whatever they want.

I don't like organised religions, however, because they always seem to want more believers, and I think that when people are together like that, they become dumb. the more, the dumber. And that leads to ridiculous stuff (Do I even need to sum it all up? I doubt it...)

on a side note: this is an interesting documentary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6XXiwZ3G Zk&mode=related&search=
I don't always agree, but the general idea behind it is about the same as mine (when it comes to religion as an organisation)

At 8/2/07 10:36 PM, Blackdoom13 wrote: god damn! My internet is down for 2 days and what 7 pages go by damn!
Ahh anyone got any goods ideas for some Doom bands I'm out... :(

Agalloch
Sunn O)))
Virgin Black
Shape of Despair
Swallow The Sun
Saturnus
Draconian
My Dying Bride

That should keep you intereested for a while :)

At 8/3/07 11:55 AM, Oppugnant wrote:

Sunn O)))

With Boris! genius!

At 8/3/07 11:32 AM, TakeNoPrisoners wrote: That's fine, I'm agnostic as well. But if you acknowledge the fact that god is a possibility why do you rule christianity out as a possibility? Out of the countless possibilities who's to say it's wrong?

The idealism of Christianity I don't really have a problem with. I don't follow it myself, but If someone else does I don't really have a problem with it. I may somewhat pity the person, but wouldn't go out of my way to show the person the errors of which he is worshiping. I hope this comment will be interpreted in an un-offensive way, but I frankly consider any mildly intelligent person would see through Christianities.... Holes.

The thing I usually have a problem with when people bring up Christianity is using the philosophy to blind sight people and make money out of it. This is what, in my eyes, the majority of Christianity is doing. Whether it be through contributions which go largely unused due to greed, and donations into priest's pockets, when it's used as a scam to make a profit I clearly can see Christianity in an even more pathetic point of view.

Of course I am talking about mainstream Christianity for the most part here, as not all of it is the same. But it's lack of proof causes me to take an agnostic stand point, but mostly for the reason that I do not believe I can prove there is no god, even if I still believe there isn't.

But think of this. If it's making life a better experience for you, what can be wrong with it?

At 8/3/07 12:00 PM, PenisClown wrote:

At 8/3/07 11:32 AM, TakeNoPrisoners wrote:

The idealism of Christianity I don't really have a problem with. I don't follow it myself, but If someone else does I don't really have a problem with it. I may somewhat pity the person, but wouldn't go out of my way to show the person the errors of which he is worshiping. I hope this comment will be interpreted in an un-offensive way, but I frankly consider any mildly intelligent person would see through Christianities.... Holes.

now are you talking about the Bible and some people who take it completely literally or something else?

The thing I usually have a problem with when people bring up Christianity is using the philosophy to blind sight people and make money out of it. This is what, in my eyes, the majority of Christianity is doing. Whether it be through contributions which go largely unused due to greed, and donations into priest's pockets, when it's used as a scam to make a profit I clearly can see Christianity in an even more pathetic point of view.

Actually I think that is only what the evangelist right-wing Christians do in my eyes

But think of this. If it's making life a better experience for you, what can be wrong with it?

exactly, thats why I am always searching for more enlightenment, both me and my dad have some unique viewpoints on Christianity which I don't really feel like typing our right now

At 8/3/07 12:00 PM, PenisClown wrote: But think of this. If it's making life a better experience for you, what can be wrong with it?

Exactly, that's how I think it should be. Hardcore christians scare me because they let it consume their life to the point where everything is about religion. I can see where you're going with donations and such going the wrong way, it's just that all organized religion has had it's own fair share of scandals. You just can't take it at face value.

Then there's Bible inconsistencies which I can honestly tell you shouldn't matter as much as people make them out to. Even when I was Christian myself I never believed the Bible cover to cover and always believed that it was more like a series of stories with the goal of suggesting a moral code as well as educating people on the whole story of jesus and his resurrection which is what you're supposed to believe in most christian sects.

At the end of the day you just have to live and let live like Bill perfectly put it.

I would have to say this is the most intelligent discussion on Christianity I've ever had. Most of mine end up being really immature.

Thanks guys.

At 8/3/07 12:49 PM, PenisClown wrote: I would have to say this is the most intelligent discussion on Christianity I've ever had. Most of mine end up being really immature.

Thanks guys.

These are the kinds of things I enjoy talking about. I just hope your view on christianity has changed at least a little bit. I don't agree with everything christianity has to offer either, but I'm not going to condemn it.

Eh, screw it I am going to come clean. I am christian and have always been christian. I do like to joke around here in there about burning churches and what not because its the steriotypical viking act and its funny. I myself am of nordic heritage making me somewhat viking. Though history tells us that in the latter days most viking converted to christianity anyway.

As for my joke burning jokes its all fun and games. Im tired though of people calling me "satanist" when they dont even know what satanist is. "devil worshiper" and shit to that sorts. Just because I listen to metal. It says no where in the bible that you cannot listen to secular music. AS WELL as people ragging on me for not going to church. I'll say to you guys what I told idio the other night lol when I was explaining it, "Going to church doesnt make you a christian anymore than standing in a garage makes you a car."

I have alot of views on christianity and it would be too much to type really. Though case and point, I'm a christian and I listen to death metal. I wish people would get over it lol.

sorry kid :(

At 8/3/07 07:36 AM, Bahamut wrote: What girlfriend? You don't have a girlfriend, you fucking liar.

You've seen a picture of her.... so obviously I do.
And so I believe you're jealous :).
Want me for yourself, aye ;)?

AAAAAHHHHHH MUST KILL ALL CHRISTIAN SCUM LIKE THE HEADLESS SHEEP THE A-

Sorry, I get this way whenever I listen to Craft.

Fuck The Universe ftw

Since we are on the topic of religion I might as well share my story.
I was born and raised Christen but it was not metal that turned me away from it, it was the false hope that they tried to give you and when I wanted them prove his exsitence they just say "you just gotta belive" well I dont, that's the problem then they get mad cuase I say I'm a Non-relgion and they say I should have God in my life so I ask them to prove him to me and I get the same answer so I've giving up on religion.

At 8/3/07 01:38 PM, Blackdoom13 wrote: it was not metal that turned me away from it, it was the false hope that they tried to give you and when I wanted them prove his exsitence they just say "you just gotta belive" well I dont, that's the problem then they get mad cuase I say I'm a Non-relgion and they say I should have God in my life so I ask them to prove him to me and I get the same answer so I've giving up on religion.

Lol.

That whole paragraph screams emo.

Anyway, come on over to the agnostic side.

It's warm.

We have cocoa too.

Who cares?
Some people like religion, whether they truely believe or just because it gives them hope (false or not - its still hope).

If you don't believe, fair enough... but the arguing over it is basically just trying to convert someone, even if you say otherwise. And whats the point? Let people do what they want, it doesn't hurt anyone.

At 8/3/07 01:42 PM, PenisClown wrote: That whole paragraph screams emo.

Anyway, come on over to the agnostic side.

OMG it did seem emo *shoots Self in foot*

It's warm.

Warm?

We have cocoa too.

MMMMMM Cocoa....

At 8/3/07 01:42 PM, Nev wrote: Who cares?
Some people like religion, whether they truely believe or just because it gives them hope (false or not - its still hope).

If you don't believe, fair enough... but the arguing over it is basically just trying to convert someone, even if you say otherwise. And whats the point? Let people do what they want, it doesn't hurt anyone.

GOD DAMNIT NEV!

You spoiled all the intelligence!

We were having a discussion, not an argument!

At 8/3/07 02:06 PM, PenisClown wrote: GOD DAMNIT NEV!

I thought you don't believe in God.

At 8/3/07 10:25 AM, Dark-Phire wrote: What does Metal Hell think about NSBM, Un-Black Metal and Christian Death Metal? :O

I'm probably the biggest listener of NS/WP/RAC in the hell.
And I don't listen to any Christian music because of my beliefs.

While we're all having a "share your religion" discussion, I must say that I'm Atheist.

I'm tolerant though! I have lots of Christian friends (and one Bahai'i)

At 8/3/07 12:49 PM, PenisClown wrote: I would have to say this is the most intelligent discussion on Christianity I've ever had. Most of mine end up being really immature.

Thanks guys.

Until I come and ruin it for you.

Nah, I don't like arguing so much, sorry about what I said earlier.

At 8/3/07 11:02 AM, davaca wrote:

At 8/3/07 10:48 AM, PenisClown wrote:

At 8/3/07 10:44 AM, davaca wrote: I don't have a clue what the hell unblack metal is, exactly.

Christian black metal.

oh, right... that sounds just plain stupid.
*horns up for Jesus*
hilarious.

Actually, Antestor are one of the only remotely black metal bands I listen to. The vocals aren't all they're cracked up to be, but other than that, :)

Also...

Epicness

Download it or I'll fucking kill you.

Interesting conversation about beliefs in here.

Yes, I am surprised about idiosyncratic's religious orientation, but I won't try to "lead" him away from his personal beliefs. If he feels well with them, then everything should be fine and so it is for me.

As for me, I'm an atheist who's strongly against organised religions like Christianity, Islam, etc. I have to admit though, I do find a liking to some satanistic ideals, yet I'm not talking about hatred against others, but mainly the ideas of freedom of expression, individualism and self-confidence.

At 8/3/07 01:21 PM, Bonemill wrote: Eh, screw it I am going to come clean. I am christian and have always been christian.

......What. The. Fucking. Hell. Do. You. Mean? Are you fucking with my head or something? Stop it! It hurts.

Sorry man, that's just so unbelieveable and...Frankly, a little strange.

While we're on the subject of religion (or have we went past it?) I describe myself as an agnostic theist. I confirm the existance of God as unknown, foolish, and hell, even a little disprovable, but I continue to believe in it. For the reason that I was raised that way, but also because I feel so empty and worthless without any higher being.

So, in other words, I believe in the Jeudo-Christianic God, pray, read the Bible, repent, go to Church and stuff (Although I resent the final to an extent) But gives up mah (minor) self indulgence, religious jokes, and taste in music? NO WAI!!11!one!1

Yeah, I'm the perverted, war mongering, Celtic, son of a bitch, anarchist wannabe who believes in God. Strange, eh?

At 8/3/07 03:35 PM, Centurion-Ryan wrote: For the reason that I was raised that way, but also because I feel so empty and worthless without any higher being.

The idea of a omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent divine being makes me feel even emptier and worthless... why aren't I like that too?
:Though I know what you're all thinking... and yes, you're right, I am like that :P

Yeah, I'm the perverted, war mongering, Celtic, son of a bitch, anarchist wannabe who believes in God. Strange, eh?

Not really.
You're just a normal human :P. Its not religous people can't listen to Metal music.
Only the faggy, ignorant ones think you can't.
But at the end of the day, the product of vibrations of strings, drums or whatever is hardly satanic :P.

At 8/3/07 03:48 PM, Nev wrote:

At 8/3/07 03:35 PM, Centurion-Ryan wrote: For the reason that I was raised that way, but also because I feel so empty and worthless without any higher being.

The idea of a omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent divine being makes me feel even emptier and worthless... why aren't I like that too?

Because you're a fabbot, that's why.

But at the end of the day, the product of vibrations of strings, drums or whatever is hardly satanic :P.

Try telling that to my mother or grandparents. And enjoy that bruise you have for the next month. (...I can still feel TEH PAIN.)

My mum and granny are acting like I'm some sort of devil spawn, and my grandad's slightly more tolerant (by that I mean he doesn't hit me when I mention metal in his presence). But he's a country and western guy. My aunt, is like my grandad, only she and my mum are those kind of people that dote over celebrities all the time. In my aunt's case, this would include metal and rock stars as well.

I've even been banned from the computer for 2 weeks before when listening to Cannibal Corpse.

At 8/3/07 03:53 PM, Centurion-Ryan wrote: Try telling that to my mother or grandparents.

I would :).
I'm smarter than they are (at least in terms of music and its relation to Satanism). Them resorting to violence would only increase my high opinion of myself, for I wouldn't need to resort to violence :).

Did my "beliefs" meet your expectations? :P

At 8/3/07 03:07 PM, Idiosyncratic wrote: Until I come and ruin it for you.

Nah, I don't like arguing so much, sorry about what I said earlier.

Don't worry about it. This is why you guys invented confession boxes.

At 8/3/07 04:10 PM, Goatchrist wrote: Did my "beliefs" meet your expectations? :P

Upset that no one paid attention of your post :P?