At 7/5/12 07:00 PM, HeavenDuff wrote:

At 7/4/12 01:31 AM, igott wrote: I've been trying to get into Industrial Black Metal recently and it wasn't going well, and then I found Mortiis.

Goddamn, he's funny-looking; but I heard he's a real bro.

Weird combination of the worst clichÃf©s of both genres... the guy looks like a retard...

Mortiis is fucking awesome, and The Grudge, his 2004 album, is fucking pure industrial genius. And why not bring the two together? I've heard my black metal mixed with damn near every genre, why not industrial?

At 7/5/12 07:19 PM, ElGhoulio wrote: Mortiis is fucking awesome, and The Grudge, his 2004 album, is fucking pure industrial genius. And why not bring the two together? I've heard my black metal mixed with damn near every genre, why not industrial?

Well, unless Death Metal and Psychedelic Rock have became commercial as fuck, I don't know. I've already said Industrial was just too commercial in my opinion, to be mixed with an historicaly and ideologicaly underground genre of music like Black Metal.

Maybe my understanding of Industrial is wrong. If it is, explain me how. I'm open :)

At 7/5/12 08:30 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: Maybe my understanding of Industrial is wrong. If it is, explain me how. I'm open :)

You have a bit of insight I haven't thought about before, but I think you are also far off. Industrial music itself is not very mainstream. Only two bands really got THAT big, and those are Rammstein and Nine Inch Nails, but both of those bands are hybrids with Electronica and Alternative respectively, which were gaining popularity at the time. Industrial itself can't be defined really. Some Swans could be called Industrial. As could Whitehouse. Coil, Feotus, Throbbing Gristle, and a whole plethora of other bands that sound nothing alike. Like Punk and Metal, it's mainly through scene and association that things get lumped into the genre. Like Swans connection with No Wave, Gristle's support of workers rights, and the whole BDSM stuff. It's also a bit about the bands behavior on the stage. If Swans didn't play so loud and aggressively, they probably wouldn't have been called Industrial. If Coil didn't have such sexual behavior, they wouldn't be called Industrial.

And as for commercial, that's a stretch. If you truly believe that, then no amount of explaining will really help. It's only through listening to some Industrial bands you will get it. Listen to any of the bands I mentioned above, PM yurgenburgen (or whatever his username is) or ZeroAsTheLimit for some recs, or ask on Metallum. I'll just say this, black metal is a tad more mainstream than most Industrial. As for the insight you had, Industrial fans tend to buy and collect shit, but that's rarely a result of Industrial music, but rather the person's tastes.

But really, Industrial isn't a genre. It was really painful to write all the stuff above. Ask 10 "Industrial fans" what Industrial is, and you'll get 10 different answers. I have the more punk attitude of "who gives a shit?" while I proceed to bang my dick on pots and pans to TV static.

At 7/5/12 09:49 PM, Tobi wrote: You have a bit of insight I haven't thought about before, but I think you are also far off. Industrial music itself is not very mainstream. Only two bands really got THAT big, and those are Rammstein and Nine Inch Nails, but both of those bands are hybrids with Electronica and Alternative respectively, which were gaining popularity at the time. Industrial itself can't be defined really. Some Swans could be called Industrial. As could Whitehouse. Coil, Feotus, Throbbing Gristle, and a whole plethora of other bands that sound nothing alike. Like Punk and Metal, it's mainly through scene and association that things get lumped into the genre. Like Swans connection with No Wave, Gristle's support of workers rights, and the whole BDSM stuff. It's also a bit about the bands behavior on the stage. If Swans didn't play so loud and aggressively, they probably wouldn't have been called Industrial. If Coil didn't have such sexual behavior, they wouldn't be called Industrial.

I was not referring to commercial as in mainstream. What I meant is that Industrial is associated with consumption. The Industrial fashion clothes cost a lot of money, and they are all about the looks. Their aesthetics is very modern and somewhat tied with a capitalist way of thinking. But maybe I see it this way because I only see the surface and the most commercial aspects of the genre. So if you tell me that it isn't all like that and explain me how and why, I'm very open to your arguments.

And since we are in the subject, how does one define precisely (if that's possible) Industrial and it's subgenres ?

And as for commercial, that's a stretch. If you truly believe that, then no amount of explaining will really help. It's only through listening to some Industrial bands you will get it. Listen to any of the bands I mentioned above, PM yurgenburgen (or whatever his username is) or ZeroAsTheLimit for some recs, or ask on Metallum. I'll just say this, black metal is a tad more mainstream than most Industrial. As for the insight you had, Industrial fans tend to buy and collect shit, but that's rarely a result of Industrial music, but rather the person's tastes.

I tend to associate Industrial with EBM and other underground trance and techno music. They share a similar clothing fashion and these different genres have a similar aesthetic and tie with a more "consumption-oriented" society. I can't see the behavior of the fanbase to be unrelated to the music in itself. There is a feel in the music, an atmosphere and an aesthetic that fits this way of life.

But again, my analysis might be kind of limited. A commercial and mainstream scene exists in Industrial, but a more underground and most likely more interresting scene also exists. And are the characteristics of the most commercial Industrial scene shared with the whole scene? I don't know.

But really, Industrial isn't a genre. It was really painful to write all the stuff above. Ask 10 "Industrial fans" what Industrial is, and you'll get 10 different answers. I have the more punk attitude of "who gives a shit?" while I proceed to bang my dick on pots and pans to TV static.

Lawl. I'll ask others what they think Industrial is then :P Thanks brah !

At 7/5/12 10:28 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: So if you tell me that it isn't all like that and explain me how and why, I'm very open to your arguments.

That's mainly the EBM stuff which consumes, which is more centered around hedonism than politics and philosophy. Many call it poseurdom. Most industrial fans I've ever met didn't even wear any fashion, and if they did, it was military surplus clothing, or skinhead fashion. I guess the only thing I can say is EBM is very far from a lot of Industrial philosophy.

And since we are in the subject, how does one define precisely (if that's possible) Industrial and it's subgenres ?

One does not (or at least in my opinion, should not). I'm the wrong person to consult on this kind of thing. Check the wiki article. I guess musically, it's a melding of noise and other avant garde into a slightly more conventional form of music.

I can't see the behavior of the fanbase to be unrelated to the music in itself. There is a feel in the music, an atmosphere and an aesthetic that fits this way of life.

I can't stress it enough, stay away from EBM. Take a bit of time to study Industrial, and you'll see that Black Metal and Industrial aren't too far away from each other (I'll guarantee you that some of the Second wave bands were listening to Industrial). It's a very natural thing.

Lawl. I'll ask others what they think Industrial is then :P Thanks brah !

No problem. Sorry if my arguments sound stiff, I'm short of time.

At 7/5/12 11:35 PM, Tobi wrote:

At 7/5/12 10:28 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: TL;DR but read it anyway

I don't know where fashion crept into this whole deal. I just listen to industrial because I like listening to industrial. For some reason, the cold, inhuman calculation of Industrial music goes well with the cold, inhuman chill of black metal.

I just think of a legion of demon cyborgs and that imagery seems to work with a lot of industrial black metal.

At 7/5/12 07:00 PM, HeavenDuff wrote:

At 7/4/12 10:12 AM, Bahamut wrote: Wintersun's Time I just got dated 19th October for release date.

Safe to trust them yet?

What was the original release date ? Wasn't it somewhere in October 2008 ? I really don't know if we can trust them just yet. Still, I feel that they wouldn't give us a release date after all this time if they were not a hundred percent sure they could make it... Well... I hope so...

I don't think there was ever an exact release date for Time so this is more official than anything they've said before. Like with video games, when they get an exact release date, most of the time it's the real deal so we can feel ensured here. Man, it's crazy how I'm taking the release date of this Wintersun album so seriously.

I finally got Gilgamesh by Agatus!

And I got Eremita by Ihsahn. I'm just listening to the first track. It starts out with some very nice rhythm.

News about Voivod's new album for anyone who cares. Supposedly, it will be remniscent of Nothingface with a good dose of Dimension: Hatross and some other stuff throughout the years. I am quite pumped for this album. The two preview tracks kicked ass.

At 7/3/12 09:09 AM, Bahamut wrote: I've never really listened to Gojira but new album, good or bad?

Yeah, it's pretty good! If you wanted to listen to them though, my favorite album of theirs has to be From Mars to Sirius. It's definitely the turning point in their careers... totally brutal stuff. The new album is more "epic" if that makes sense, like everything sounds huge. I like it. They're very environmental, which comes out in their music.

Haven't posted or lurked here in what feels like years now. Ghoul's back it seems. That's pretty cool. Any news about what Marko is doing? The only discovery I've made in the meantime is Kvist. Really good BM. Check em out.

At 7/4/12 01:57 AM, ElGhoulio wrote:

At 7/4/12 01:31 AM, igott wrote: I've been trying to get into Industrial Black Metal recently and it wasn't going well, and then I found Mortiis.

Goddamn, he's funny-looking; but I heard he's a real bro.

Have you checked out Aborym? They're the vanguard. Also worth looking up:

Dodsheimsgard/DHG (666 International & Supervillian Outcast only)
Axis Of Perdition
Ram-Zet (not for everyone, though)
The Kovenant (too industrial and dance-y for most metalheads, though)
V:28
Blut Aus Nord (great atmospheric stuff)
...And Oceans (later stuff)

There are more, but I can't be arsed to look them up.

I know the Kovenant, ...And Oceans, along with V:28.
I should say that I'm coming in Industrial through Ministry, KMFDM, and Front Line Assembly. I already knew my metal before.

listening to Angst Skvadron. This is some really cool trippy shit, like black metal from the dark side of the moon. Very spacey, very psychedelic. Loving it!

At 7/6/12 03:29 PM, Zodir wrote: News about Voivod's new album for anyone who cares. Supposedly, it will be remniscent of Nothingface with a good dose of Dimension: Hatross and some other stuff throughout the years. I am quite pumped for this album. The two preview tracks kicked ass.

I'd have to hear the studio versions before I can truly judge them. I don't know about you but I can never give the final verdict based on live tracks.

At 7/6/12 10:46 PM, TakeNoPrisoners wrote: Haven't posted or lurked here in what feels like years now.

It's definitely good to see you again. How would you summarize your metal over the last few years?

At 7/6/12 10:46 PM, TakeNoPrisoners wrote: Haven't posted or lurked here in what feels like years now. Ghoul's back it seems. That's pretty cool. Any news about what Marko is doing? The only discovery I've made in the meantime is Kvist. Really good BM. Check em out.

I got out of the slammer a while ago and gained internet access in April.

Kvist is really fucking smartly executed melodic black metal. I love their album For Kunsten Maa Vi Evig Vike. It may only be 6 songs, but it's a solid six.

At 7/6/12 10:46 PM, TakeNoPrisoners wrote: Haven't posted or lurked here in what feels like years now. Ghoul's back it seems. That's pretty cool. Any news about what Marko is doing? The only discovery I've made in the meantime is Kvist. Really good BM. Check em out.

Me either lol, I'm coming back here every few months. I just haven't seemed to find the time or remember to come here every so often.

I'm just listening to black metal lately, I've made it clear and obvious to myself that it's my favorite subgenre by far. I'm trying to find some less mainstream black metal bands though, as they seem to pull it off really well. Anyone got any suggestions? I guess the less mainstream ones I listen to are Blodsrit, Tsjuder, Urgehal, Darkestrah and Nargaroth (I think they are). Not too much 8(

At 7/6/12 10:46 PM, TakeNoPrisoners wrote: Haven't posted or lurked here in what feels like years now.

Wow, man, it's been a long time. welcome back.

At 7/7/12 02:00 AM, ElGhoulio wrote: listening to Angst Skvadron.

hell yeah, man.

Anybody listen to Beherit's non-black metal stuff? It's some trippy shit man. Complete trip out/zone out music.

Pic definitely related. That was from mostly this morning and afternoon. Definitely got fuller since then.

At 7/7/12 02:30 PM, mothballs wrote:

I'm just listening to black metal lately, I've made it clear and obvious to myself that it's my favorite subgenre by far. I'm trying to find some less mainstream black metal bands though, as they seem to pull it off really well. Anyone got any suggestions? I guess the less mainstream ones I listen to are Blodsrit, Tsjuder, Urgehal, Darkestrah and Nargaroth (I think they are). Not too much 8(

I would go with Secrets of the Moon, Semen Datura, Sauron, Seth, and Satanic Warmaster. And that's just out of my "S" section.

Eremita is fantastic.

I never checked out Beherit, but I've known the name for several years. I should look into them.

I know Secrets of the Moon thanks to Bruce. I have Privilegivm, which is a sick album.

At 7/8/12 11:35 AM, Sense-Offender wrote: Eremita is fantastic.

I shall check them out

I never checked out Beherit, but I've known the name for several years. I should look into them.

I know Secrets of the Moon thanks to Bruce. I have Privilegivm, which is a sick album.

Bruce also introduced me to this ambient project called Letum. Haven't been able to find to much stuff by them, though. He sent me one of their albums a while back and I no longer possess it. :(

At 7/5/12 11:35 PM, Tobi wrote: That's mainly the EBM stuff which consumes, which is more centered around hedonism than politics and philosophy. Many call it poseurdom. Most industrial fans I've ever met didn't even wear any fashion, and if they did, it was military surplus clothing, or skinhead fashion. I guess the only thing I can say is EBM is very far from a lot of Industrial philosophy.

Might be true.

I can't stress it enough, stay away from EBM. Take a bit of time to study Industrial, and you'll see that Black Metal and Industrial aren't too far away from each other (I'll guarantee you that some of the Second wave bands were listening to Industrial). It's a very natural thing.

I still feel this "ideology" and "aesthetic" in Industial. You guys were just talking about a musician whom I can't remember the name, but when I looked him up on Google, he looked like a unfitting mix of Black Metal and Industrial. He was wearing some king of goblin mask, but with a bm corpsepaint over it. It's like a weird mix of Hollywood Horror movies and an underground musical scene. It just doesn't fit together...

At 7/6/12 01:14 AM, ElGhoulio wrote:

At 7/5/12 11:35 PM, Tobi wrote:

At 7/5/12 10:28 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: TL;DR but read it anyway

I don't know where fashion crept into this whole deal. I just listen to industrial because I like listening to industrial. For some reason, the cold, inhuman calculation of Industrial music goes well with the cold, inhuman chill of black metal.

I said that their clothing fashion fits the aesthetic and feeling of the music. But you are correct, the "cold and inhuman calculation" of Industrial music still kind of fits with black metal, somehow. I just feel that Industrial has a strong bond with modern culture and so obviously, with capitalism and consumer society... I might be exagetaring this link though. So, I won't dig deeper in the subject. I've expressed my thoughts on this. If you feel like answering my post, or maybe linking me to Industrial Black Metal that doesn't fit the idea I've made of it.

I just think of a legion of demon cyborgs and that imagery seems to work with a lot of industrial black metal.

True :P

At 7/6/12 08:54 AM, Bahamut wrote: I don't think there was ever an exact release date for Time so this is more official than anything they've said before. Like with video games, when they get an exact release date, most of the time it's the real deal so we can feel ensured here. Man, it's crazy how I'm taking the release date of this Wintersun album so seriously.

Yeah well, they've been delaying it for four years now. I can understand your enthusiasm.

At 7/8/12 02:12 PM, HeavenDuff wrote:

At 7/6/12 01:14 AM, ElGhoulio wrote:

At 7/5/12 11:35 PM, Tobi wrote:

At 7/5/12 10:28 PM, HeavenDuff wrote: TL;DR but read it anyway

I don't know where fashion crept into this whole deal. I just listen to industrial because I like listening to industrial. For some reason, the cold, inhuman calculation of Industrial music goes well with the cold, inhuman chill of black metal.

I said that their clothing fashion fits the aesthetic and feeling of the music. But you are correct, the "cold and inhuman calculation" of Industrial music still kind of fits with black metal, somehow. I just feel that Industrial has a strong bond with modern culture and so obviously, with capitalism and consumer society... I might be exagetaring this link though. So, I won't dig deeper in the subject. I've expressed my thoughts on this. If you feel like answering my post, or maybe linking me to Industrial Black Metal that doesn't fit the idea I've made of it.

Aborym and DHG are two good bands that retain the BM side very well. I would be hard-pressed to find ANY ways that Aborym is mainstream, commercial, or associated with capitalist/consumer society. DHG are equally esoteric, and while they have songs that resemble satanic dance music than black metal, they do it tastefully and there is a distinct lack of "mtv" in their presentation. Most of it is hyperspeed blastbeats, anyways.

Yellow & Green is being streamed in its entirety here :D

Ok, not exactly metal related at all, but my review for the Final Fantasy VI OST is now up. As always, I appreciate constructive criticism or any suggestions. Thanks!

Heard Manowar's new album, Lord of Steel. It blows, don't listen to it. This is coming from someone who loved the Thunder in the Sky EP and Gods of War. Such a shame.

At 7/9/12 12:15 PM, Viper50 wrote: Yellow & Green is being streamed in its entirety here :D

I definitely want to hear it but it'll be arriving at my door before I know it. Right now I'm swarmed with new CDs and it doesn't help that my birthday is this Thursday.

At 7/9/12 03:55 PM, Zodir wrote: Ok, not exactly metal related at all, but my review for the Final Fantasy VI OST is now up. As always, I appreciate constructive criticism or any suggestions. Thanks!

I'm amazed how one can review that soundtrack within that many paragraphs. If it were me, it would have went beyond ten paragraphs since I have far too much to say about FFVI.

At 7/9/12 10:28 PM, ElGhoulio wrote: Heard Manowar's new album, Lord of Steel. It blows, don't listen to it. This is coming from someone who loved the Thunder in the Sky EP and Gods of War. Such a shame.

Hell, even I liked the odd song from Warriors of the World and Gods of War but this abomination, no, can't think of anything good. Born in a Grave had potential but that fucking obnoxious bass really drowns everything.

At 7/10/12 09:06 AM, Bahamut wrote:

At 7/9/12 12:15 PM, Viper50 wrote: Yellow & Green is being streamed in its entirety here :D

I definitely want to hear it but it'll be arriving at my door before I know it. Right now I'm swarmed with new CDs and it doesn't help that my birthday is this Thursday.

hmm...okay. i can't wait to get my copy
well i think its pretty good
not as "heavy" as id like it to be but still not that bad

and well happy early birthday then dude :)

At 7/10/12 09:06 AM, Bahamut wrote:

At 7/9/12 03:55 PM, Zodir wrote: Ok, not exactly metal related at all, but my review for the Final Fantasy VI OST is now up. As always, I appreciate constructive criticism or any suggestions. Thanks!

I'm amazed how one can review that soundtrack within that many paragraphs. If it were me, it would have went beyond ten paragraphs since I have far too much to say about FFVI.

Yeah, I had that trouble. If you looked at my first comment, it took months to write that, with constant changes and rewrites. I think I managed to get the core ideas through though. Favorite FF soundtrack and game.

At 7/10/12 09:06 AM, Bahamut wrote:

At 7/9/12 10:28 PM, ElGhoulio wrote: Heard Manowar's new album, Lord of Steel. It blows, don't listen to it. This is coming from someone who loved the Thunder in the Sky EP and Gods of War. Such a shame.

Hell, even I liked the odd song from Warriors of the World and Gods of War but this abomination, no, can't think of anything good. Born in a Grave had potential but that fucking obnoxious bass really drowns everything.

Yeah, DeMaio let his ego go wild on this one. It reminds me of Unleash the Fury by Yngwie, in that it sounds like it was thrown together at the last minute.