At 7/24/10 08:07 PM, TakeNoPrisoners wrote:

At 7/24/10 07:28 PM, DeIirium wrote:

I don't see how I am bigoted or intelorant

They are of the opinion that some opinions are better than others. You've turned that opinion into an insult because you disagree with it. You're insulting them for having a different opinion when you seem to be all about accepting everyone's opinions when you don't, just the ones that you like.

I think that thinking that your musical preferences are correct and others are wrong is wrong. Music is a subjective thing, there's no way to objectively argue that a band is better than another one. If being of this opinion makes me intolerant and bigoted then so be it.

I think people should be open minded about every type of music, and if they can't get into it then no problem, but there's no need to bash a band just because you don't like it.

Here's the thing. The reasons why I don't like Pantera are the same reasons people like them. At that point it's a disagreement. In a disagreement I think I am right for my own reasons and if I didn't there wouldn't be a disagreement. If I didn't think Pantera's music wasn't boringly simplistic fake macho tuff guy pro wrestling trailer trash metal there wouldn't be cause for the disagreement in the first place.

What you're effectively saying then is "you can disagree but don't voice it because that potentially bothers me and other people." Fuck that. If you ask me my opinion on something or if I see fit to voice my opinion on something (the circumstances for which this is acceptable obviously may vary) I'm going to be perfectly honest with you because I'd expect you to do the same for me. And if you disagree with me it's not the end of my day. I don't get butthurt. We both end up going about our day liking the things we like after having a bit of honest to god discourse. It may not be "nice" but at least it isn't bullshit.

I understand what you are saying here. I presented myself in the wrong way in this post. I don't have a problem with people expressing their dislike of a band, but more with the mentality that people are wrong in liking that band that they think is shitty, and castigate others for liking it. This is quite prominent in the metal culture, and that is why there exist terms such as "poser".

Raw Black Metal? What the fuck?

At 7/24/10 04:51 PM, greensucksbluerules wrote:

At 7/24/10 04:39 PM, TheUnwisePoet wrote: I'm talking seriously, I really want to listen to such thing as Glam Death Metal.

Glam Death Metal is a paradox.

Yet I thought doom speed metal was a paradox up until I heard this. Not saying glam death metal exists, though unless we're talking about deathcore but crazy things do happen in this world.

At 7/25/10 11:06 AM, batman64 wrote: How is everybody doing today?

I don't know why but I feel like going on a black metal spree. I could do with a few more Immortal albums as well as some of the early Bathory stuff, especially the latter since I'll be seeing the Bathory all-star tribute band in less than two months time. As for Immortal, I really liked All Shall Fall and I've given a few songs in Sons of Northern Darkness a try and they sound really good.

At 7/25/10 11:20 AM, Bahamut wrote:

At 7/24/10 04:51 PM, greensucksbluerules wrote:

At 7/24/10 04:39 PM, TheUnwisePoet wrote: I'm talking seriously, I really want to listen to such thing as Glam Death Metal.

Glam Death Metal is a paradox.

There's always Visual Kei, but for some reason I can't stand it. I would like to listen to something like Vains of Jenna, because they're pretty glam, but at the same time the vocals are some kind of harsh, I don't know...

I've been trying to look into Candlemass recently. I have their album Epicus Doomicus Metallicus, and I'm wondering which albums I should pick up.

At 7/25/10 11:50 AM, Zodir wrote: I've been trying to look into Candlemass recently. I have their album Epicus Doomicus Metallicus, and I'm wondering which albums I should pick up.

I've yet to listen to all the Candlemass albums but I recommend all the albums with Messiah on vocals, especially Nightfall. Self-titled proves to be a great comeback album from the band when Messiah returned, even though he left shortly after.

At 7/25/10 11:20 AM, Bahamut wrote: As for Immortal, I really liked All Shall Fall and I've given a few songs in Sons of Northern Darkness a try and they sound really good.

In my opinion 'At the Heart of Winter' is fucking brilliant and their best album. Get it.

Epicus Doomicus Metallicus is a sweet album, I really like it and the vocalist is great. Messiah Marcolin is great too, even though he is unintentionally funny.

What's the opinion on Strapping Young Lad? Particularly The New Black, which I believe is their most recent.

At 7/25/10 01:41 PM, hypersomniax wrote: What's the opinion on Strapping Young Lad? Particularly The New Black, which I believe is their most recent.

I like SYL, but I think the general consensus is that Devin's self-titled works are much better (Devin Townsend Band, Devin Townsend, etc.)

At 7/25/10 12:47 PM, PenisClown wrote:

At 7/25/10 11:20 AM, Bahamut wrote: As for Immortal, I really liked All Shall Fall and I've given a few songs in Sons of Northern Darkness a try and they sound really good.

In my opinion 'At the Heart of Winter' is fucking brilliant and their best album. Get it.

Thanks for the recommendation.

At 7/25/10 01:41 PM, hypersomniax wrote: What's the opinion on Strapping Young Lad? Particularly The New Black, which I believe is their most recent.

Although I've yet to listen to Alien, I really enjoy SYL. The New Black was really good but my favourite of theirs has to be self-titled. I don't really like Heavy as a Really Heavy Thing, though. There's only two good songs and that's it.

At 7/25/10 10:07 AM, TheUnwisePoet wrote: Raw Black Metal? What the fuck?

Uh, what is so hard to get about that?

At 7/25/10 10:07 AM, TheUnwisePoet wrote: Raw Black Metal? What the fuck?

have you never heard that before?

At 7/25/10 01:41 PM, hypersomniax wrote: What's the opinion on Strapping Young Lad? Particularly The New Black, which I believe is their most recent.

I enjoy SYL a lot. I love all their albums, and Alien is my personal favorite. I actually enjoy SYL's stuff more than Devin's self-titled stuff (not that those aren't fantastic, but I just prefer SYL). Speaking of Devin, does anyone know when Deconstruction and Ghost are supposed to come out? I always heard this year, but I've seen some stuff that they will be released late next year.

At 7/25/10 11:30 AM, TheUnwisePoet wrote:

At 7/25/10 11:20 AM, Bahamut wrote:

At 7/24/10 04:51 PM, greensucksbluerules wrote:

At 7/24/10 04:39 PM, TheUnwisePoet wrote: I'm talking seriously, I really want to listen to such thing as Glam Death Metal.

Glam Death Metal is a paradox.

There's always Visual Kei, but for some reason I can't stand it. I would like to listen to something like Vains of Jenna, because they're pretty glam, but at the same time the vocals are some kind of harsh, I don't know...

Visual Kei sucks. It's more of a fashion show than it is music. Anyway, glam death

At 7/24/10 03:55 AM, HeavenDuff wrote: Someone told me I was giving Black Metal a bad name because I didn't like Mayhem, but liked Ulver, Balrog, Wolves in The Throne Room and Xasthur. He said that I liked shit with synths.

He's right, fuck that hipster garbage. It's all the same gimmicky shit. It's just better to call it tree metal.

Though, he probably is a faggot for liking Mayhem.

At 7/24/10 09:50 PM, DeIirium wrote: I think that thinking that your musical preferences are correct and others are wrong is wrong. Music is a subjective thing, there's no way to objectively argue that a band is better than another one. If being of this opinion makes me intolerant and bigoted then so be it.

Naw, it just means you're more likely to backpedal with "Music is subjective, maaaan. Relax." (Kinda like what you're doing right now.

An advanced apology to everyone here for "fagging up the metal hell" as you like to call it. I can agree with that sometimes but a lot of the time it's a vagina tactic used to keep people from disagreeing and actually talking about shit. Arguments are, believe it or not, actually fun and sometimes even useful too.

At 7/24/10 09:50 PM, DeIirium wrote: I think that thinking that your musical preferences are correct and others are wrong is wrong.

Long story short, if someone likes something that betrays my criteria they're automatically wrong based on my own criteria. Not on some objective standard. You do this. I do this. Everyone does this. The only difference is in how you express it and how you react to others. If someone acts like their opinion is objective well that's irritating but it's also impossible, so there's always an underlying argument there that they aren't smart enough to recognize. Attack that. Not "elitism" as if it were something to be ashamed of. Some people are better than others at things. That's just a blatant reality. Some people know more or have more exposure to things than others and in a world where value judgments are everywhere that goes a long way. A lot longer than a lot of people today seem to think.

Music is a subjective thing, there's no way to objectively argue that a band is better than another one.

There is if we share similar criteria though you wouldn't exactly call it objective. If I like my metal to be extreme and/or complex Slipknot just doesn't cut it. If someone had the same criteria but Slipknot was all that they had been exposed to they would probably like it. Acknowledging this, everything comes back to value judgments which are relative. If all I know or have ever heard in the way of "heavy" music is Slipknot, Slipknot is pretty fucking heavy. But if I can point to several bands who are more extreme or more complex suddenly Slipknot loses it's edge. And it's worth noting that, once the edge is lost, if I still like them it must be because they fit some of my other criteria.

Everyone experiences things and reacts to them differently based on their own personality. This doesn't mean that things which are blatantly obvious, such as say, Morbid Angel being more extreme than Korn, aren't possible to come to some sort of consensus on; not that consensus in this case should even be necessary. It doesn't mean that someone with a tiny scope or frame of reference has an opinion of equal merit in comparison to that of an expert, at least to me. But even that is a value judgement because what does or does not have merit is decided upon by each person themselves.

So in that case one would have to ask themselves, which is of more importance to me? The opinion of an average joe with a small frame of reference, or someone who's passionate about the subject and has been dealing with it for years? Some would say the first, but their criteria is different from the people who would say the latter. In the end it's all about how you look at things. If I like to classify, dissect and better understand things, I want the opinion of the guy who knows what he's talking about. If I want my average joe ego stroked I go for the uneducated self validation. As it goes on it's becoming readily apparent that I too am an elitist but so is everyone else. I'm just ready to acknowledge it and I even welcome it. By Nietzsche's definition it's a complement.

more with the mentality that people are wrong in liking that band that they think is shitty, and castigate others for liking it.

They probably are wrong for liking that band based on the person who says so's criteria.

This is quite prominent in the metal culture, and that is why there exist terms such as "poser".

And sometimes it's a necessary one.

At 7/25/10 01:57 PM, D3NTATUS wrote: I like SYL, but I think the general consensus is that Devin's self-titled works are much better (Devin Townsend Band, Devin Townsend, etc.)

You'd be right. He did a one album side project called Ocean Machine that he later rereleased under the Devin Townsend name and I think it's probably the best thing he's ever done. Bastard is probably the best song he'll ever make. It's everything I like about his style crammed into one song.

At 7/25/10 04:09 PM, TakeNoPrisoners wrote: verbose rant

You've got a gift for dragging out a point that could be made in a few sentences into a few paragraphs.

At 7/25/10 04:46 PM, Dalnaki wrote: You've got a gift for dragging out a point that could be made in a few sentences into a few paragraphs.

Maybe. But at least I actually brought a point.

I'm looking into Cryptopsy, and I wanted to know what albums are their deathcore stuff so I can avoid them. I have None So VIile (which is fantastic), and I want to get the rest of their good stuff.

At 7/25/10 11:06 AM, batman64 wrote: How is everybody doing today?

Uni starts off today with a 3 hour lecture on Rural Valuation! I'd have a winge that my iPod no longer works, but I'm actually looking forward to 'learning' something in this unit. Oh, and passing it.

Holy crap. Sleep's "Holy Mountain" and Morbid Angel's "Laibach Remixes" test pressings are up on eBay. If I had money I'd totally be all over the Sleep one.

At 7/25/10 10:07 AM, TheUnwisePoet wrote: Raw Black Metal? What the fuck?

Raw Black Metal

See?

So one of the two guitarists of Blood Red Throne and their drummer have left the band. I really hope that this won't do any harm to the band. The guitarist who left has been in the band since the very beginning of Blood Red Throne.

They still have three of the members who originaly recorded Altered Genesis, so I still have hope that the band will keep on going.

Blood Red Throne - Unleashing Hell

At 7/25/10 04:09 PM, TakeNoPrisoners wrote: By Nietzsche's definition it's a complement.

Agreed, indeed. Your romantic words of passion be true, aye.

At 7/25/10 08:44 PM, Zodir wrote: I'm looking into Cryptopsy, and I wanted to know what albums are their deathcore stuff so I can avoid them. I have None So VIile (which is fantastic), and I want to get the rest of their good stuff.

The Unspoken King is their only Deathcore record. Everything else is fine. Though you might want to give Whisper Supremacy and And Then You'll Beg a miss as well. Musically, they're okay, but Mike DiSalvo is without a doubt one of the worst Death Metal singers of all time.

At 7/25/10 01:59 PM, Bahamut wrote:

At 7/25/10 12:47 PM, PenisClown wrote:

At 7/25/10 11:20 AM, Bahamut wrote: As for Immortal, I really liked All Shall Fall and I've given a few songs in Sons of Northern Darkness a try and they sound really good.

In my opinion 'At the Heart of Winter' is fucking brilliant and their best album. Get it.

Thanks for the recommendation.

Follow-up to your recommendation, I listened to a few songs on the album before getting it and I was really happy with what I heard, especially the intro for the title track. That blew my mind. I purchased that along with Sons of Northern Darkness and Bathory's Under the Sign of the Black Mark.

If there's still more essential Bathory albums to get, I'd appreciate it if any of you informed me about them. So far, I have self-titled, Blood Fire Death, Hammerheart and Twilight of the Gods.

At 7/26/10 07:00 AM, Centurion-Ryan wrote: The Unspoken King is their only Deathcore record. Everything else is fine. Though you might want to give Whisper Supremacy and And Then You'll Beg a miss as well. Musically, they're okay, but Mike DiSalvo is without a doubt one of the worst Death Metal singers of all time.

Why'd they ever hire that guy and ruin their sound?

At 7/26/10 08:35 AM, Bahamut wrote:

Follow-up to your recommendation, I listened to a few songs on the album before getting it and I was really happy with what I heard, especially the intro for the title track. That blew my mind. I purchased that along with Sons of Northern Darkness and Bathory's Under the Sign of the Black Mark.

If there's still more essential Bathory albums to get, I'd appreciate it if any of you informed me about them. So far, I have self-titled, Blood Fire Death, Hammerheart and Twilight of the Gods.

Well, I am fortunate because my dad used to be a big Bathory fan, so I have all their stuff. Your missing Blood on Ice (which is pretty good), Destroyer of Worlds (also pretty good), Octagon, Requiem (both are average), and then Nordland I and Nordland II, which I immensley enjoyed both of those albums, some of their best stuff in years. Be warned, those two are less black metal than anything else they have done, but it still sounds great.

Although I've yet to listen to Alien, I really enjoy SYL. The New Black was really good but my favourite of theirs has to be self-titled. I don't really like Heavy as a Really Heavy Thing, though. There's only two good songs and that's it.

Alien is their best IMO, and yeah, Heavy as a Really Heavy Thing is kinda shit. City has some decent stuff, as does The New Black, but I'm loyal to Alien.

Like holy shit, even the intro to Alien is more epic than Force Fed off SYL.

Also, what the fuck, Neuraxis? Why is Trilateral Progression shit compared to your earlier stuff? Vocals too loud in the mix, poor sampling, over-use of acoustics... Please make more Truth Beyond... and Imagery stuff.

Sincerely,
hypersomniax

I stopped caring about SYL the moment I heard Earth Day. I just saw SYL as whiny and boring once I'd heard his solo stuff.