At 5/13/10 02:47 AM, Wylo wrote: For Tetris'd, are you supposed to not be able to see your guy after about 250 seconds?

Eventually, yeah. I didn't put up with that BS, so I used the glitch on the side to climb up and claim the 1337 medal.

At 5/13/10 02:56 AM, EdyKel wrote: Eventually, yeah. I didn't put up with that BS, so I used the glitch on the side to climb up and claim the 1337 medal.

Ooh, tell me. :D

this game will have the medals when they are approved!!

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At 5/13/10 02:56 AM, EdyKel wrote:

At 5/13/10 02:47 AM, Wylo wrote: For Tetris'd, are you supposed to not be able to see your guy after about 250 seconds?

Eventually, yeah. I didn't put up with that BS, so I used the glitch on the side to climb up and claim the 1337 medal.

Ya, I guess I should've read more into the guide before asking that question.

At 5/13/10 04:43 AM, LiquidOoze wrote:

At 5/13/10 02:56 AM, EdyKel wrote: Eventually, yeah. I didn't put up with that BS, so I used the glitch on the side to climb up and claim the 1337 medal.

Ooh, tell me. :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcrS6CuGt 64

At 5/13/10 04:46 AM, ugolegend94 wrote: this game will have the medals when they are approved!!
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/53 5880

WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN
Erm, welll, it's an....interesting concept...I just hope that there won't be "HURP HURP FINISH GAME ON UBER DIFFICULTY WITHOUT GETTING HIT" medals..

At 5/12/10 07:36 PM, WonderTheHedgehog wrote: How did you beat the entire easy mode of Ching Chong Beautiful THAT fast, Mr-Contradiction?!

I'm not letting this question go. It's staying at the top of this thread.

At 5/13/10 08:24 AM, nosesocks wrote:

At 5/12/10 07:36 PM, WonderTheHedgehog wrote: How did you beat the entire easy mode of Ching Chong Beautiful THAT fast, Mr-Contradiction?!

I'm not letting this question go. It's staying at the top of this thread.

You're thinking of the "h" word aren't ya?

At 5/13/10 08:24 AM, nosesocks wrote:

At 5/12/10 07:36 PM, WonderTheHedgehog wrote: How did you beat the entire easy mode of Ching Chong Beautiful THAT fast, Mr-Contradiction?!

I'm not letting this question go. It's staying at the top of this thread.

I'll be honest, I was kind of suspicious just based on how fast he's getting medal points. But then he comes in and posts about how he's spending hours and hours trying to get the Obsessed medal in Time Fcuk, and I'm not sure any more. Has CCB ever had known timer issues?

CCB did not have timer issues afaik. Then again, I had no trouble with Time Fcuk voting medals.

At 5/13/10 10:04 AM, queenofbabes wrote: CCB did not have timer issues afaik. Then again, I had no trouble with Time Fcuk voting medals.

CCB time records were what was used as evidence against Phreneticus, in addition to other factors.

At 5/13/10 11:45 AM, nosesocks wrote:

At 5/13/10 10:04 AM, queenofbabes wrote: CCB did not have timer issues afaik. Then again, I had no trouble with Time Fcuk voting medals.

CCB time records were what was used as evidence against Phreneticus, in addition to other factors.

Ohh...looks like we're going to have a trial pretty soon :D

and shall 3+ pages of "OMFG joo h4xx3ed lol!" commence.

At 5/13/10 09:52 AM, chris-marks wrote:

At 5/13/10 08:24 AM, nosesocks wrote:

At 5/12/10 07:36 PM, WonderTheHedgehog wrote: How did you beat the entire easy mode of Ching Chong Beautiful THAT fast, Mr-Contradiction?!

I'm not letting this question go. It's staying at the top of this thread.

I'll be honest, I was kind of suspicious just based on how fast he's getting medal points. But then he comes in and posts about how he's spending hours and hours trying to get the Obsessed medal in Time Fcuk, and I'm not sure any more. Has CCB ever had known timer issues?

Figured this would come up.

If you could look at the dates that I got the medals, and the date that that run occurred, you will see that that 12 seconds or whatever happened about 3 months ago (or more?). I didn't have the medal then. I got all the medals a week ago.

That was some glitch or something, but I most certainly didn't beat Easy, let alone get the medal then. At that time I was using IE, which Ching Chong is not entirely compatible with. I do remember that it was when NG was just implementing their own high score system as opposed to using Mochi or w/e, and it was still stuttering once and a while.

If you care that much, find out how to determine the exact date of medals being obtained, and then look at the date that I "made" that 12 second run, compare, evaluate, conclude.

I don't even think my latest runs made it to the high score list...

Internets for recognizing and understanding the low res reference below.

At 5/12/10 03:40 PM, chris-marks wrote:

At 5/12/10 03:30 PM, Mr-Contradiction wrote:

At 5/12/10 02:52 PM, HeavyTank wrote: Also, sorry if I can't help 'bout F8, but I really can't recall my exact score :(

Just did 3 playthroughs on Fig. 8, 1,200,000+ points, 1,400,000+ points and 1,500,000+ points... No medal.

Do two more. Before I commit lots of time to it, I'm curious if having 5 scores over 1m is the key.

Completed all 5 scores over 1mill, no medal.

And you folks are calling me to task over this system... I did a Google search and found this regarding Fig. 8... The very last post was the most intriguing imo. Looks to me like the only way to get Professional, unless you put it all off to glitches.

At 5/13/10 04:11 PM, Mr-Contradiction wrote:

At 5/12/10 03:40 PM, chris-marks wrote:

At 5/12/10 03:30 PM, Mr-Contradiction wrote:

At 5/12/10 02:52 PM, HeavyTank wrote: Also, sorry if I can't help 'bout F8, but I really can't recall my exact score :(

Just did 3 playthroughs on Fig. 8, 1,200,000+ points, 1,400,000+ points and 1,500,000+ points... No medal.

Do two more. Before I commit lots of time to it, I'm curious if having 5 scores over 1m is the key.

Completed all 5 scores over 1mill, no medal.

And you folks are calling me to task over this system... I did a Google search and found this regarding Fig. 8... The very last post was the most intriguing imo. Looks to me like the only way to get Professional, unless you put it all off to glitches.

Since this has come up before, I feel the need to reiterate: a visit to that site does not automatically a cheater make. Yes you need an account there to read the content, but it's not like having an account necessarily means you use it to cheat. So before anyone says anything, the fact that he was able to read that thread does not automatically convict him.

Regarding the perfectionist medal in fig 8, here's a video of one person actually getting it at the end. Hmmm... Maybe you have to have a 0 at the end of the million...

At 5/13/10 04:22 PM, EdyKel wrote: Regarding the perfectionist medal in fig 8, here's a video of one person actually getting it at the end. Hmmm... Maybe you have to have a 0 at the end of the million...

Wrong medal. Perfectionist is for finishing the game without crashing. Professional is the broken one, for getting a score over 1 million.

At 5/13/10 04:22 PM, EdyKel wrote: Regarding the perfectionist medal in fig 8, here's a video of one person actually getting it at the end. Hmmm... Maybe you have to have a 0 at the end of the million...

Oops, my bad. Disregard. I got the two mixed up.

At 5/13/10 04:15 PM, chris-marks wrote:

Since this has come up before, I feel the need to reiterate: a visit to that site does not automatically a cheater make. Yes you need an account there to read the content, but it's not like having an account necessarily means you use it to cheat. So before anyone says anything, the fact that he was able to read that thread does not automatically convict him.

Yeah I made an account to see it, figured the first result would be entertaining in the least.

At 5/13/10 03:50 PM, Mr-Contradiction wrote: If you could look at the dates that I got the medals, and the date that that run occurred, you will see that that 12 seconds or whatever happened about 3 months ago (or more?). I didn't have the medal then. I got all the medals a week ago.

No way to tell exactly when either was attained, but I can confirm that the 18 second run happened more than a month ago.

Also I just found out that I need to move my .sol for that game from my work computer to my home machine. Turns out I never finished the game on my home computer, so almost all the in-game stuff isn't activated; I only beat it at work. That kind of caught me off-guard when I saw it.

Hehe... Then we can get into the nature of hacking. Is copying the save file from one computer to another hacking? :P I hate philosophy.

Well I'm all excited for a lively debate tonight... I'll leave this up while I play some PVKII and check back occasionally.

At 5/13/10 05:11 PM, Mr-Contradiction wrote: Hehe... Then we can get into the nature of hacking. Is copying the save file from one computer to another hacking? :P I hate philosophy.

Well I'm all excited for a lively debate tonight... I'll leave this up while I play some PVKII and check back occasionally.

The rule of thumb we tend to go by here is that you're not allowed to modify the game in any way, and you have to do everything yourself. So copying my own .sol file from one machine to another is fine, but copying someone else's .sol file isn't, nor is some kind of deal like "I'll get you medals in game A if you get me medals in game B".

At 5/13/10 05:15 PM, chris-marks wrote: The rule of thumb we tend to go by here is that you're not allowed to modify the game in any way, and you have to do everything yourself. So copying my own .sol file from one machine to another is fine, but copying someone else's .sol file isn't, nor is some kind of deal like "I'll get you medals in game A if you get me medals in game B".

Mmm, honesty, integrity and fairness, this is starting to sound like my swearing in as an engineer. Simply because no one else is going to, I'll be the supporter of hacking for the duration of this conversation.

Most people here would agree that hacking is wrong. I'd love it if everyone who read this could put a little detail into that belief for me. For example: Hacking is wrong because it kills children in Africa.

Hacking is wrong because it skews things. There's this 100 point medal in Alkie Kong 2 called Drunken Deity, which you get for finishing the game in hard mode without dying. There is only the one way to get it, and it's fucking insane. If a bunch of people show up who've gotten the medal by hacking, then the medal is devalued. The medals are meant to indicate that you have skill in playing the game, not in hacking it.

At 5/13/10 05:11 PM, Mr-Contradiction wrote: Hehe... Then we can get into the nature of hacking. Is copying the save file from one computer to another hacking? :P I hate philosophy.

No, of course not..only tampering with it would be considered "cheating" (still not technically hacking though).

Well I'm all excited for a lively debate tonight... I'll leave this up while I play some PVKII and check back occasionally.

You play PVK2?I freaking love that game...

At 5/13/10 05:26 PM, chris-marks wrote: Hacking is wrong because it skews things. There's this 100 point medal in Alkie Kong 2 called Drunken Deity, which you get for finishing the game in hard mode without dying. There is only the one way to get it, and it's fucking insane. If a bunch of people show up who've gotten the medal by hacking, then the medal is devalued. The medals are meant to indicate that you have skill in playing the game, not in hacking it.

The medal may be devalued, but it's not unfair. There is no retarding factor on hacking, everyone can do it. Hmm... I'd rather not get into the whole "achievement syndrome" of gaming nowadays... oh well, here goes a wall of text.

If there are status symbols in existence (medals, unlockable items, etc.) people will want them. To get them, there are always loopholes in the system. If you need to complete the game 10 times for a medal, why not just reload from a save directly before the final boss 9 times. These sort of things flow logically from a result based analysis.

If people want "Drunken Deity" and do not want to play the game, they could hack it. Does this diminish the medal for those people who got it legitimately? Only if they are in it for the points. If all of the medal games on Newgrounds did not have points, would people try as hard to get them? Without a ranking system, are achievements fruitful?

Humans (or what Western culture has made of us) have an unerring need to progress, to be better than we were before. In many cases the desire is to be better than our peers. Medals are a good way to describe this. But if the medals have an arbitrary point system attached to them, a system of currency, then new meaning comes into effect. "I have more XFSR than you, therefore I am better". That is not necessarily true though. If a person completed "Drunken Deity" for 100 points, and another person completed all of Tax Time for 85 points, are they nearly on par for skill? Not in the least. The system of currency has failed to properly attach value to the medals. "But this medal is X points so this one should be too". Tradition is never an excuse for anything. Statistics can be made to display whatever is desired.

So the representative currency of Points is inherently flawed. If the medals were attached to games with no points, there would be little reason to hack. Without the currency, there is no comparison between "I completed this medal legitimately" and "I hacked this medal". The personal achievement is nothing if it is hacked. Only when you blur the image to say, I got 100 points from this game or I hacked 100 points from this game, does hacking become worthwhile. Only when a system of currency becomes involved, does cheating the system make sense. Conversely, when a system exists to be cheated, it will be. Statistically speaking (lying), this is true.

Where do you go from here? Do you put hours of time into a task with minimal relative reward? Or do you put minimal time into a task for minimal reward? Efficiency is the sibling to progress; why spend more if the task can be done faster using another method? For hackers, that method is plain to see.

The most common rebuttal to the question, "Why do you hack?" is, "Why don't you?". Why perpetuate a broken system? Tradition? Or do you desire to maintain a certain set of morals for yourself?

Maintaining those morals is all well and good, for yourself. But at the point that you try to enforce those morals upon others, you are committing a terrible crime in denying their own choice. In the end, the medal is only meaningful to you. Hackers can be happy with their irrelevant currency, and legitimate players can be happy that they were skilled enough at the game to beat it. As stated earlier, in this instance there is no unfairness involved. Everyone has access to hacking capabilities thanks to the internet. It's only when you mix morals and the desire for currency that you run into a problem. Real world scenarios most often err on the side of morality, but does that apply to virtual goals in virtual worlds? Is anyone being harmed by hacking flash games?

No, the argument against hacking is based solely on greed. I'll go through a biased little exersice to bring about a controversial conclusion now.

Suddenly, everyone has the same 100 points that I do, and thus those points are worthless to me now. Forget that I worked so hard to complete this and can rest assured that I have verifiably beat this game, the points say that I am only average.
I don't want to participate in the cheating based on my morals.
I can't obtain currency as fast or in as large a magnitude as the cheaters, yet I desire the same amount or more currency than they have to validate my life.
Solution? I will instead attempt to defame and debauch their reputations, or attack them in some other way. I shall instigate laws and an enforcing authority to segregate them from my "cheat free" society. I will try to seal off all possible routes for hacking, to make it so that I can still be better than everyone, while maintaining my sense of dignity.

I will limit the possibilities in an attempt to leave only my path as the one remaining.

Is this not a clear example of fascism?

Not all of this has come to pass on Newgrounds, but it is the trends and the willful ignorance of some people that may end up causing something like this to occur. Certain flash games already come equipped with anti-hacking programs. All because some point grubbing kids decided to get angry. Shall we ask the governmentto make hacking illegal?

Alright I'm done ranting for now... I should get a new hobby now that I've effectively beaten NG's collective of medals... Too much time sitting around thinking about how everything is broken. It must be difficult to tell that my ideal world is an anarcho-capitalist society where the only defining law is that you may not violate anyone's free will.

tl;dr Bring on WW3 so we can maybe get a good start this time.

At 5/13/10 06:40 PM, Mr-Contradiction wrote:
The medal may be devalued, but it's not unfair. There is no retarding factor on hacking, everyone can do it. Hmm... I'd rather not get into the whole "achievement syndrome" of gaming nowadays... oh well, here goes a wall of text.

Hey, everyone can walk on the street and randmoly start killing people with a big knife he got from his home, so it's OK to do it, right?
That's pretty much your logic.

If there are status symbols in existence (medals, unlockable items, etc.) people will want them. To get them, there are always loopholes in the system. If you need to complete the game 10 times for a medal, why not just reload from a save directly before the final boss 9 times. These sort of things flow logically from a result based analysis.

If people want "Drunken Deity" and do not want to play the game

Then they leave the game and don't get the medal.

WALL OF TEXT

The fuck?You know, defending medal hacking is definitely not helping you here...also, it seriously doesn't make any sense.

At 5/13/10 07:18 PM, HeavyTank wrote:

At 5/13/10 06:40 PM, Mr-Contradiction wrote:
The medal may be devalued, but it's not unfair. There is no retarding factor on hacking, everyone can do it. Hmm... I'd rather not get into the whole "achievement syndrome" of gaming nowadays... oh well, here goes a wall of text.

Hey, everyone can walk on the street and randmoly start killing people with a big knife he got from his home, so it's OK to do it, right?
That's pretty much your logic.

Obviously didn't read the post. I said that this argument doesn't hold in most non-virtual situations. Usually due to rape and murder.

If there are status symbols in existence (medals, unlockable items, etc.) people will want them. To get them, there are always loopholes in the system. If you need to complete the game 10 times for a medal, why not just reload from a save directly before the final boss 9 times. These sort of things flow logically from a result based analysis.

If people want "Drunken Deity" and do not want to play the game

Then they leave the game and don't get the medal.

Also an option. People are free to choose it if they so decide.

WALL OF TEXT

The fuck?You know, defending medal hacking is definitely not helping you here...also, it seriously doesn't make any sense.

This is a philosophical discussion... Really, please read and understand what I said alright? First paragraph: I will take the side of hackers for conversation sake.

Oh boy do I love little kids. Oh boy I do oh boy.

My post is mostly about defending choice and the freedom to choose. I don't personally care if people hack. It in no way impacts my life. I don't want to reiterate all of my topics again, but I will say: Please read the post if you are going to comment.

At 5/13/10 09:03 PM, Mr-Contradiction wrote: Obviously didn't read the post. I said that this argument doesn't hold in most non-virtual situations. Usually due to rape and murder.

And by first paragraph I mean't the first post. Two up from the large one.

At 5/13/10 09:03 PM, Mr-Contradiction wrote: Also an option. People are free to choose it if they so decide.

Dude, just knock it off with all that rhetoric for hacking, alright. It's not making you look any less guilty in the eyes of people who spent a lot time earning their medals legitimately.

If you want to hack a game, that's fine, you have the right to do so. Just don't pretend you earned anything you get from them.