At 10/3/06 10:50 PM, DFox wrote:

If you were submitting legitimate entries then of course you wouldn't want to see reviews like that.

But you said that the abusive reviews are actually helpful.

But spam entries deserve reviews like that. Why should people waste their time and tell you how to make an entry that you CLEARLY had no desire to put any work into better?

So saying, "Fuck you fuckyou fuck you fuckyou" is better?
It's just silly. We all know these people aren't submitting these Flashes to get suggestions. They are your common spammers.

They do it to piss off little retards on this site

I think you need to calm down. I don't participate in this abusive reviewing, but apparently you do. How can you honestly have the nerve to come in here and say "abusive review leaving faggots" when you're one of them? That's just hilarious.

Shut up, you were once review banned. F00D's reason for being banned is mentioned
here . Thats nothing compared what you used to do.

At 10/3/06 10:55 PM, ramagi wrote: The submitterof the crap is winning more at the voting stage when the average voter goes, oh this group submitted this, I'll just vote 2 to get my point. I know personally I have many poitns, but I have lost many points as well because I didn't vote to save a submission that got protected, and the opposite voted to protect a submission that got blammed

Those are all good points. If you say they get satisfaction out of abusive reviews, then I agree with you.

I'm not really sure how they are going to stop this at the voting stage though. They can start by making a statement and simply deleting the accounts of the people who think it's cute to vote 5 on spam to get that protect point rather than using their high voting power to keep the portal honest.

Also, to some of you 13 year olds who feel the need to be in on this discussion:
Notice how ramagi can convey a point to me without using phrases like "fuck you" , "shut up", "fucking dumbass". It's really annoying when there's intelligent conversation and some people feel the need to respond with their stupidity.

At 10/3/06 12:34 PM, WadeFulp wrote: Hopefully more people will start realizing they are shit and start blamming them.

I hope so too.

At 10/3/06 11:03 PM, Grammer wrote:

At 10/3/06 07:58 PM, BonusStage wrote: You see, you're one of those idiots that doesn't know what the word opinion is.

You have to walk a far mile to find somone who honestly believes the UU submissions actually deserve a 5. Some deserve maybe a 2 at best, but 5 is simply ridiculous, especially for something so subpar.

BonusStage = Own3d

At 10/3/06 09:56 PM, ripman wrote:
press the 'reply with quote' button. also what is UU?

I know, but i didn't feel like manually copying/pasting both quotes.

UU, is the Uzi Union.

Pretty much the clocks, just replace the clock with an Uzi.

Placing this on the front page only encourages both parties that are causing the problems. The author of this flash will certainly be submitting more of the garbage, and the voters will definatly be passing it. Newgrounds has time and time again recognized bad flash, and it's just become part of the portal now. People now have the mindset that horribly bad flash, are hilarious and thus deserve to be allowed into the portal. It's what people have come to believe is portal-worthy. This is a skewed view from what the general populace tends to think, however, it feels like an inside joke to regular voters, who thus will find it hilarious and allow it in. Simple as that.

How to handle this? Change the mindset of these people, who believe that spam is funny on Newgrounds. Newgrounds has let crap in before, and it's become something people accept as part of the site. Newgrounds has been attracting more and more flash artists and has been getting more and more good flash. However, the older users still accept bad flash as part of the mix. If you can convince users this isn't part of NG anymore, good job. However, ever since B, crap has been something NG regulars enjoy time and again. It's like an inside joke that's just gotten out of hand.

Trying to resolve the issue by dealing punishment to the authors seems like the sensible explaination. However, many of those accounts tend to be merely alternate accounts. This really doesn't do anything to halt an onslaught of crappy flash. However, users who submit constant bad flash into the portal need to be dealt with somehow. Sending in one bad flash for shits and giggles every other month is fine, but sending in 4 or 5 a day is what has become the problem.

Punishing users for their voting choices is a rather risky road to take. It may seem sensible, "If they are punished for supporting crap, they'll change their ways." However, some users truely love the horrible flash that is allowed in. They feel it's now part of the NG society. Punishing them for something they see as part of how NG works only sends mixed messages. The ClockCrew became a hit, despite it came out of crap. I've seen good flash made by Piconjo, the Star Syndicate, Lock Legion, Glock Group, etc... Every now and then the groups will produce something of good quality. Also every now and then, some of the bad quality works stemming from these groups will end up being truely hilarious.

However, time and time again, the groups become old and outdated. People do finally start getting sick of them, and more and more of their flashes start getting blammed. Then they stop submitting or lower the amount they send into the portal. Then a new group always seems to come forth. It's a cycle that happens again and again in the portal. It's just become part of the NG tradition. There always seems to be someone sending in the crap for the users to enjoy passing. Trying to regulate it can only cause new problems of some sort, and it will only interrupt the cycle. It will start again, it's just become part of the site. And like it or not, we're going to have to deal with it.

Trying to stop it isn't bad though. If we do manage to stumble upon a way to cease the activity permanently, then by all means go for it. However, until then, I'll be enjoying watching GOST from the front page. ;)

At 10/3/06 10:44 PM, Adam wrote: Dfox would you personally like to see reviews telling you what to improve on or reviews saying "zomg that sucked?"

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills over here ___August 2, 2006

Entry: Metal Gear Awesome ___Overall Score: 1

This is total shit, if any portal award it deserves turd of the week. Anybody with an index finger can make flash of this quality. This overrated piece of crap needs to be spoken against, words can't express my anger at the users who actually voted 5 on this. You're lucky it wasn't even blammed. The characters were drawn poorly, the animation was mediocre, and the only reason the 12 year olds who aren't supposed to be on Newgrounds think it's funny is because they swear and the little kids are like "ZOMG I'VE LIEK NEVER HEARD SOMEONE SWEAR IN A FLASH MOVIE THAT TOOK 10 SECONDS TO MAKE IM FIVEING THIS." This is the longest review I believe I have ever written, I needed to get my thoughts on this crap out there.

Now, if we were to edit out all the unhelpful/nonabusive crap you put in there, we'd have this review:

"The characters were drawn poorly, the animation was mediocre."

At 10/3/06 12:32 PM, TurtleLove117 wrote: People are too nice, they need to regulate.

It's not that people are nice. It's just that all their shit manage to come through the portal, so people just decide to vote 2-5 just to get the protection point, because that's what they know everyone else will pick. Unless you can gather enough people to get 15+ voting power, stop whining.

This is what happens when you place a system that encourages conformism rather than judging on real quality.

At 10/4/06 12:23 AM, Pseudonym95 wrote:

At 10/3/06 12:32 PM, TurtleLove117 wrote: People are too nice, they need to regulate.

It's not that people are nice. It's just that all their shit manage to come through the portal, so people just decide to vote 2-5 just to get the protection point, because that's what they know everyone else will pick. Unless you can gather enough people to get 15+ voting power, stop whining.

You'd be suprised, some people do higher votes out of pity.

But yeah... people do it for the protection points, going with the flow.

Also, i respected and agreed with the whole post, until you tried to act like a bad ass and told me to stop whining.

Bitch.

At 10/3/06 07:57 PM, Ying-yong wrote:
But no. It's called the flash portal, and crap, fbf, stickmen, sprites, parodys, anti Osama flashes, and Ying-yong flashes get into the portal. It's full of variety.

Dude nobody is saying that the portal should be limited to certain types of submission. Even shitty groups can actually exist and submit their laughable flashes. Thats not the pointhere. The point here is that the UU has submitted like 30 flashes in a row, obscuring the presence of other flashes, and of top of that, most of their flashes are done to insult other people (clocks in the particular case), which already breaks one of the rules. Another ruel they constantly break is that they resubmit balmmed flashes over and over again. And finally, they massvote flashes into the portal, obscuring other flashes into oblivion, and essentially abusing the system.

The solution? I am not sure what a good solution would be. Maybe the list of recent flashes should be enlarged, to show up the 100 most recent flashes (instead of 50) and this would help the obscurity problem. And flashes that blatantly broke portal rules, such as hate others and subhmit after constant blam, should be simply erased.

At 10/3/06 10:55 PM, ramagi wrote:

The submitterof the crap is winning more at the voting stage when the average voter goes, oh this group submitted this, I'll just vote 2 to get my point. I know personally I have many poitns, but I have lost many points as well because I didn't vote to save a submission that got protected, and the opposite voted to protect a submission that got blammed

After seeing this, I have just come with one idea. It may have its flaws but may also contribute somethign worthy to this problem. I think the problem is to give blam or protection points when a flash meets one fate or the other. Maybe instead of offering b/p points, maybe NG should just offer a "judgment point", which is earned by voting on movies under judgment. That way, people will vote based on their own personal feeling about the flash, instead of trying to guess wether said flash will be protected or not and thus biasing his vote.

I know the b/p system precisely tried to stop this situation, and it would have worked wonders, wasn't it for mass voters. Maybe the "judgment point" instead of "b/p points" could help the voter vote more based on his/her impression of the flash than wether it will pass or not.

I personally vote the way I feel about a flash, I don't care much about b/p points, but thats not the case about everyone.

Yesterday tuesdya there were at least two UU flashes blammed. I voted blam on them all. Sure, I lost plenty of points, but these two goners made my day. :-)

At 10/3/06 10:50 PM, DFox wrote: Sure, I'll buy that after they decide to stop spamming, then we can call them Wi/Ht visitors.

lmao you need to stop generalizing. the vast majority of wi/ht users dont even make flash. it just so happens that one of the big spammers, afro stud, is also a wi/ht regular. thats all. are you suggesting that they close down that helpful thread that has brought countless horrible reviewers to justice simply because a few spammers use it to get people banned who have abused them personally (and deserve to be banned)?

I think you need to calm down. I don't participate in this abusive reviewing, but apparently you do. How can you honestly have the nerve to come in here and say "abusive review leaving faggots" when you're one of them? That's just hilarious.

I hardly ever write absuive reviews. i got review banned for writing a simple joke to a friend.... a review mod thought it was spam. it may have been spam but it wasn't abusive at all, it was a very positive review!

sorry i cussed you out though bubb i was feeling particularly passionate about this issue because of how little i actually care O:)

At 10/3/06 11:04 PM, DFox wrote: Also, to some of you 13 year olds who feel the need to be in on this discussion:
Notice how ramagi can convey a point to me without using phrases like "fuck you" , "shut up", "fucking dumbass". It's really annoying when there's intelligent conversation and some people feel the need to respond with their stupidity.

"13 year old" is an extremely ineffective insult to use on someone 2 years older then you. almost as ineffective as "fucking dumbass!"

all i have to say is 90% of all that crap CC UU LL KK and so on and so on should just be kicked although that doesnt make sence and u cant really fight ppl who u cant prove make shit on perpuse. but if u notice only ppl who do comment and vote the 10 are clocks or somecrap or made a flash with one... but yea thats just my thoughts. except u all have admin theres that 10% of them who make AMAZING flashes and it pains me to see there clocks locks uzi kitty and w/e cuz ive become used to gettin ready with my auto 0 but thats just me. i really do think that spam crap needs to stop...

At 10/3/06 10:35 PM, F00D wrote:

At 10/3/06 09:22 PM, Kinsman wrote: F00D, why don't you go to the submission guidelines, take a look at each of the 'Do not's, and tell me which are unnecessary censorship (which you do not approve of), and which are the closing of loopholes (which you do approve of), and why.

all but the "personal attack" rule are ok at the moment

All right..

Also, read my follow-up posts on this thread.

all that you seem to state in your follow up posts is that your rule could be open to debate. that isn't the case. if its a rule, the admins alone have the final say in what breaks the rule and what doesn't. in addition, you say that the rule would only affect people who are cluttering the portal on purpose. maybe it would work for the kitty krew, who are blatant about their intentions, but all the other crews would have to do is claim that they are actually trying to create good flashes when in reality theyre trying to piss people off. as a result, theyd probably end up being even more succesful in their goals by using more subtle techniques then they would by just outright saying "we're trying to spam the portal and piss people off." therefore, the problem wouldn't be solved. people would just find a way around it. and then the admins would have to step things up and start censoring all flashes that they feel shouldn't have passed judgement, and this would cause a viscious cycle that would eventually ruin the portal for thousands of people with different opinions then yourself.

This is first a slippery slope argument and second, reminds me of the old saying: "Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining." You'll know a spam group by its actions.

the simple fact is a lot of flashes specifically designed to piss people off and screw with the portal can still be enjoyable to a lot of people. you may dislike the intentions of the authors, but movies that were solely designed to anger and that seem to not have any redeeming qualities have actually gained a lot of fans, if for no other reason then they incite hilarious amounts of anger from reviewers. others just enjoy the simplicity of such flashes, or they find dicks attractive or something. i happen to hate the adolf hitler around the world series, and cant see how anyone would like it. i have no doubt in my mind that the authors are only making the series for the sake of spamming and angering NG visitors. but that doesnt mean i think they should be censored by the admins, because believe it or not, they have a lot of actual fans who really do enjoy the flashes. censoring them simply because of their intentions is dumb, because there are ALWAYS going to be SOME people who enjoy the flashes. your self-centered point of view is preventing you from seeing this.

So you think that it's good to have a rule that keeps people from swapping Flashes. But, the reason that rule is up there is because of the actions of the Barney Bunch; don't you think there were people who enjoyed the hentai of Drew Pickles?

If a group called the 'Outwar Ogligarchy' created movies that were charming, funny, shocking, and launched Outwar links after completion, would you defend them?

Basically, you're arguing we should allow this trouble to keep on going, because of a small group of people who are ultimately hostile to the Newgrounds community need their schadenfreude.

I can see the other point of view just fine - I see it so well, in fact, that I can see its faults and limitations.

Wade if you attempt that, you will reset the 39/40 of users on Newgrounds. I bet that including yourself too.

I just lost all respect in the Newgrounds Community.

At 10/3/06 12:41 PM, UncomfortableGeorge wrote: They get through because most people expect them to be mass voted in so they vote 5 for the protection point.

i agree. im usually talking to my friends on MSN and were blamming shit in the portal, he see's something made by a group, ( clock crew, barneybunch ) and he protecxts it, cus he thinks there being mass voted. i dont blam and protect stuff very often though.

Let's just make it HARDER to PROTECT something.

But EASIER to BLAM it.

Easier to get rid of the bullshit, while with the bar raised higher, only high quality Flash makes it.

Guys. We make a deal.

I will kill the Uzi Union (With super leet admin powers) and you people can do whatever you want with B/P points and whistle shit, anything. Add censorship to the site. Wade can, for all i care delete the hole fucking portal.
BUT!! Only if you can do these things for me:

1. If i am to delete all Uzi movies, i want all others who spent as much effort on their movies as we did. People like Illwillpress for example.
2. Delete everyone who makes this stuff, like BlueHippo, ZekeySpaceyLizard, Rtil, actually just 98% of people actually making flash on this site. That including the creator of Newgrounds, Tom Fulp.
3. Delete Wade Fulp for the same reason as on number 2. If you disagree with me, you might wanna look at this, this, and this. You can't tell me these are what you would call good movies. The first one is as much randomness as to that you guys would blam it, yet it has daily feature. The second one is a gif spinning around on a picture. The third one is a fucking video clip and it has Daily 3rd. Jesus christ.

Do these things and i will delete the UU. It's fair requirements to my standards.

Go. check out the Porta.

The Uzi Union leader submitted something VERY interesting.

Uzi Union PSA

Fuck this i've earned my experience points, my blam and protect points, i'm not having some shit done because of fags.

People vote stuff through for the protection point because everyone else votes it through for the protection point, so if you incurred some sort of penalty for things like that "A Blank Screen " entry you might be able to break the cycle and it wouldn't take too much monitering aftering that's been accomplished.

(I don't know if this has been said before, I don't have enough time to read through the entire topic)

I completely agree. the underjudgement ammount is out of control...at least alot of blammin and saving to be done <3

Experience points are dangerous!
Maybe only some users may vote and others post to the BBS
Down with the UU!!

At 10/4/06 10:52 AM, TurtleLove117 wrote: Go. check out the Porta.
The Uzi Union leader submitted something VERY interesting.
Uzi Union PSA

I watched it, and found value in it. The introduction was high quality, and the message was important, and I feel it should be protected.

But, if I vote five, or even two, then I'm risking account deletion by Wade, who is presumably watching my votes because I fived some of the UU flashes that I actually enjoyed yesterday. But if I vote zero, I'm disregarding the work that was put into the intro, and the effort that was put into making the remainder of the flash. I think it's worth passing, because it *does* show some effort -- whether it's the greatest flash in the world or not... but my opinion is apparently wrong, now.

So, Wade, what should I do with this latest? How should I vote -- since I apparently shouldn't vote how I *feel* anymore?

Honestly, with all due respect, if we can't vote how we really feel, even when we disagree with the administration, I don't think we should have a portal at all. It's ridiculous to maintain the illusion of voting if that voting is monitored and if voting the "wrong" way is to be punished. If that's how it needs to be, perhaps it's time to do away with the portal entirely and just make Newgrounds be a showcase of really good flash that the administration and its trusted support team find to be of value.

At 10/3/06 11:51 PM, Xiivi wrote: Punishing users for their voting choices is a rather risky road to take. It may seem sensible, "If they are punished for supporting crap, they'll change their ways." However, some users truely love the horrible flash that is allowed in. They feel it's now part of the NG society. Punishing them for something they see as part of how NG works only sends mixed messages. The ClockCrew became a hit, despite it came out of crap. I've seen good flash made by Piconjo, the Star Syndicate, Lock Legion, Glock Group, etc... Every now and then the groups will produce something of good quality. Also every now and then, some of the bad quality works stemming from these groups will end up being truely hilarious.

who win punishing this users? 95% of NG, who loses? the 5%
even who think that the UU shit is funny can have much more fun watching better movies. or now u will say that this ppl only like the spam crap?
order > liberty

At 10/4/06 12:15 PM, Onnet wrote:

At 10/4/06 10:36 AM, FloorJack wrote: BlueHippo, ZekeySpaceyLizard

NEVAR, YOU WILL FACE AN ARMY OF FANBOYS.

If you like BlueHippo, then you must understand the signifigance in our movies. We do this because we like to piss you people off. I don't know if this comes as a news flash to you but we do. And unless you guys can tell EVERY member of Newgrounds to stop reviewing our movies with "LOL U GAIS SUK BLAM BLAM BLAM" (and i'm not even kidding, i got that in a review once), you won't stop either the CC, the LL, the SS OR any other future group that pisses you off. And to do this is impossible. Even if Wade mass PM'd people about to just ignore us, it would never happend. For one, it would dry out the Portal.

The answer to this is so simple...

Make it easier to BLAM, and harder to PROTECT.