At 2/21/07 04:42 PM, jmtb02 wrote: Sorry to add to all the hustle and bustle of "ZOMG my game is stolen!", but really, this one takes the cake.

have you eamiled the guy telling them that they stole it without permissiona nd stuff?

To be honest, its your fault for makign such an awesome game.. without antistealing AS in it...

unless they decompliled and remvoed said AS..

Re: Theivery

Thats terrible really. It is bad enough people just ripping your game as it is, but when you percifically say that it is not avalible anywhere else till friday and they still rip it before then its really bad. You gunna contact them asking for them to remove it?

At 2/21/07 04:42 PM, jmtb02 wrote: Thievery

This website, http://www.noveltyarcade.com/, took Knights of Rock without permission.

I hadn't heard of Novelty Arcade before, but it seems that they're new and growing fast with stolen games:

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_det ails?url=www.noveltyarcade.com

Should we ask Tom if he consented to Alien Hominid being on there?

At 2/21/07 05:12 PM, GregLoire wrote: Should we ask Tom if he consented to Alien Hominid being on there?

It's fairly obvious he didn't.

Websites stealing Flash i can understand, but not if the author specifically specifies he doesnt want it taken, that's just disrespectful. Especially if he states that any site is free to host it in a couple of days.

Re: Thievery

I wrote an email to them regarding their disregard. I say we wait and see if there is a response.

Another thing that bugs me about that noveltyarcade place is that the webmaster doesn't seem to know much about games. It's probably strictly business for him. He has Fancy Pants Adventure and Playing Field 2 classified as arcade games..

Website game thieves
I think thats just something developers have to acknowledge about the net, theft online that doesn't include money only flash files n' such isn't a top crime for police to solve. Its just gonna happen. The best thing to do is shove links to your site and info about it right in the flash saying "For exclusive and first glimpse of new conent go to the official site!" it will generate a bigger fan base. Its almost impossible to have a flash thats only available on your site if its really good.

At 2/21/07 05:40 PM, pixelz wrote: Website game thieves
I think thats just something developers have to acknowledge about the net, theft online that doesn't include money only flash files n' such isn't a top crime for police to solve. Its just gonna happen. The best thing to do is shove links to your site and info about it right in the flash saying "For exclusive and first glimpse of new conent go to the official site!" it will generate a bigger fan base. Its almost impossible to have a flash thats only available on your site if its really good.

Jmtb said, he doesn't mind them taking his games, but he wanted the game to be exclusive to his site for a while to attract maximum attention. If this site had any respect for flash authors (which he should seing as they're making him a living), the owner of the site would've at least waited til the date jmtb specified it's allowed to be distributed at, before stealing it.

Flash Stealing

Odd seeing you guys thinking that the people who steal flash have morals...

I mean, they steal flash on put it on their own site without permission, and they may even get money of your work and some even take credit for your hard work.. i don't think they care if you email them and such.

maybe if you report them to the fbi for having child porn hidden on their site and have the swf's to cover the porn up.. then maybe they'd learn their lesson... who knows..

no idea if the chld porn thing would work...

Flash thieves
I understand he wanted it to be exclusive, I got an idea that might still not work but its an idea, if you want a flash exclusive to your site for a while, make a V1 swf that says so right on the loading screen! Like "This is V1 only available on www.mysite.comm" then later release V2 which is for newgrounds and such. If the thief doesn't care for that, then at least the viewers will know that the flash has been juxed (another word for steal). Also it may not be so much morals for flash thieves, maybe they just don't understand the flash author's feelings towards it, I mean theres hundreds of sites out there that just have flash games, the site owner probably doesn't even have a copy of Flash, they just host the games for people to have fun.

Cybex I had tried all of what trunks said. No wonder it wasn't working. Well hopefully now I'll be able to get it again. Thanks by the way. Does the next one go to thirteen or does it not work yet? And the clue doesn't help at all :D

Thievery and Web 2.0 & beyond

I think that the evolution of the web and the whole web 2.0 movement sort of presents an interesting challenge to the faithful, dont steal mentality of the web. For those unfamiliar with Web 2.0, its sort of this change in thethinking of providing web content, its sort of a movement to make the visitor king, and empower users with the faith that by giving them tools to be creative they will become faithful followers of your stuff.

Places like YouTube and MySpace and Google Maps and other areas are good examples of the Web 2.0 mentality. You can rip a movie you like on YouTube and just paste it on your site... YouTube *wants* you to do that. They give you the tools and say here take what you want. Fill your site with things that you feel like taking. Theres been some great things made from that mentality, nowadays peoples MySpaces have alot more content and things like google maps can help small mom and pops stores have their own customized map and directions without having to hire dev work for it. etc etc.

The PROBLEM with that mentality comes in that you sort of spoil people into thinking that everything is free and so the more saavy users begin to just take things because they feel like they can and because you have intended for the internet to enjoy. And so this is where it becomes problematic for the developer such as ourselves. I think it will likely get worse as time goes on, so you should definately make it your priority to fill your movies with links back to your site, or offer things at the end that sort of motivate people to travel to find out more about you. So in some ways you will eventually have to accept that it will happen and you should see your movies/games as business cards.

-L

Oh my bad, I didn't read the posts until I posted mine. I won't post about the riddle in this one anymore, but if someone does a make a thread for it, can they at least post a link in here that goes to it?

At 2/21/07 07:01 PM, Luis wrote: So in some ways you will eventually have to accept that it will happen and you should see your movies/games as business cards.

Why hasn't there been any major action taken? Why is this something that developers will simply have to accept? Like many of you, I've seen this happen more times than I can count (I'm the one who notified jmtb02 of what had happened with Knights of Rock shortly after he uploaded it onto Newgrounds and the site I work for, Kongregate.com).

But I must confess ignorance about why I've never seen anything being done about it. I mean that sincerely; I'm sure there's something I just don't understand, and I'm curious about the reasons.

I'm interested in whatever response jmtb02 might receive, but unfortunately I'm not holding my breath. jmtb02's email is, however, the first step in the larger process:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_ci vil_copyright_enforcement_procedure

Is a class-action lawsuit really out of the question here?

thieves and internet 2.0

I agree with Luis, make your flash a business card, or rather just have your little site link and moto in there.

I think its impossible to stop this because the Internet is about putting stuff out there and sharing information, and thats what these sites are doing. The governemt and the police don't think some flash game thats been ripped from a site is important enough.

At 2/21/07 08:01 PM, pixelz wrote: The governemt and the police don't think some flash game thats been ripped from a site is important enough.

It's not the job of the police to file lawsuits, which is the legal avenue one can pursue when copyrighted material is stolen.

The YouTube comparison is not valid, in my opinion. When you upload a video on YouTube, that's something you agree to. You might agree to the same thing when you sign a sponsorship deal, but not when you're uploading a game onto Newgrounds, and certainly not when you're uploading it onto your personal website along with a little note explicitly saying that the game cannot be hosted elsewhere until a specified date.

At 2/21/07 08:08 PM, GregLoire wrote: The YouTube comparison is not valid, in my opinion. When you upload a video on YouTube, that's something you agree to.

I know that it is different worlds but lets face it you didnt read the fine print when you joined this site.. people dont read the fine print when they upload to youtube.. etc etc etc. And youtube and web 2.0 set the example that the internet is a place where you can share and 'sample' as you see fit. Its not so much agreeing to its just the fact that theres sites out there that give shit out for free and etc etc and most people arent developers they arent flash artists they dont know the struggle or whatever and so they just see the web as this smogasbord of things to share.. and so naturally issues come up.

The fact that flash is so easy to view and its easy to publish it on a site etc etc is its own backburner.. same with mp3 music and cd burners etc etc etc

Thievery
God knows, I love it when sites host my work. It's awesome to see my game on some random website I didn't even think about submitting it to. But its when you explicitly say "please do not steal now, but I'll let you steal later", and the guy steals, is when you start to question things. I understand the youtube mentality, and now even media companies, which support p2p to distribute demo files and trailers to games, programs and media. I used to even have a page for downloading all the swf files for your own website, before I got lazy and stopped updating it.

I realize I underestimated people's willingness to respect a flash developer's single request. It's the only thing I have ever asked of any host, ever, and it was broken in a matter of a day.

At 2/21/07 08:23 PM, jmtb02 wrote: Thievery
I realize I underestimated people's willingness to respect a flash developer's single request. It's the only thing I have ever asked of any host, ever, and it was broken in a matter of a day.

Well you've just experienced the insatiable hunger of the internet and its users. Nothin more to say about it.

One last thought on YouTube, they are in a mess themselves because they are in a massive effort to try and police copyrighted content now AFTER the fact, and its huge nightmare considering how its out of control now and the monster has been let out of the bag. So even in sites that allowed you things .. to pull the reigns after you've let the dog roam doesnt work.

At 2/21/07 08:14 PM, Luis wrote: Anyway like i said web 2.0 and the whole sharing=success mentality only makes it worse so may as well be smart and adapt to it rather than trying to hold the seems on something that has already exploded out of control.

Adapting to it is the most crucial thing to do. When you are about to send one of your works on the internet, be it a game an animation or a movie, make sure to adjust it so you have the advantage. Expect it to be distributed in some shape or form so tag it. "This game was made by JoeCool123490809132". Do this to get recognition from your work. Using jmtb02's Knight of Rock as an example, I know John put in a link to his website on the menu and the credits. This redirects traffic to his website now. "Wow, that was really cool! I wonder what else he made..." In fact John even took it an extra step by putting in the signature pictures at the end. Not only do they boost replay value, they also serve as another way to gain viewers.

So is stealing content wrong? Well yes, stealing is always wrong, but will it stop? Not likely, so learn to live with it.

JMTB, you could have used flash's date object and _url to make it able to only be played on your site, then deactivate the protection on the right date.

Just a suggestion.

At 2/21/07 08:33 PM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote: JMTB, you could have used flash's date object and _url to make it able to only be played on your site, then deactivate the protection on the right date.

Just a suggestion.

True, he could have. But the point was that he at least expected people to wait a few days before stealing, the author's only request, and a very small one at that. So yeah, it sucks, I'm curious to see how the guy responds, if he responds...

He hasn't responded to me, but he has removed the Flash from the site. And google has been great to him, and so has DIGG.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=knights+
of+rock&btnG=Google+Search

I'm done here, I'm moving on.

At 2/21/07 08:43 PM, jmtb02 wrote: He hasn't responded to me, but he has removed the Flash from the site.

Which he wouldn't have done if not for the fact that he knows he can be sued.

My original point was just that this kind of thing is illegal, and action can be taken. I never meant to imply that it can be stopped in the first place.

At 2/21/07 08:21 PM, Luis wrote: web 2.0 set the example that the internet is a place where you can share and 'sample' as you see fit.

The only problem with everyone sharing and contributing is that most people are massive idiots and don't have anything actually worth sharing.

Fucking O'Reilly. Who does he think he is?

People do that all the time. And yes, I know that from experience.

HEHE

Newgrounds Vs. My Computer

I still am not sure if the site was down or if for some reason my computer wanted to be lame and not ever load the site for a few hours but whatever...
It would seem not because there are quite a few posts here, since I last checked at least.

Theft Rational

The internet is funny. In recent time is has become a means of self expression more than anything else. From the golden age of personal websites, in the truest sense of the word(when people actually taught themselves html and put together something to write home about) to the age of myspace and youtube.
Some people seem to thrive on the idea that if they put something on the internet millions will see it(though this is rarely true), and this some how this validates them. Likewise, the same people think if they assemble an assortment of work from others and make it available for others to see this somehow makes them more impressive. These people can get along. If all you want is a bunch of people to see your shit then you don't care where it goes and how it got there, and you might even get a kick out of it.
However, there is another group of people. There are people who break their backs putting something together for either profit or for recognition. Recognition may goes towards future job opportunities or it might just be for the same ego boost the other kind of people strive for except this time they want to make sure the whole world knew they were the guy that make that shit. I guess people who recognize this trait and support it would also fall into the group. The Tom Fulps of the world, the people who live by the idea that people should get credit for their work and nothing should be showcased without consent.
You might not agree but thats how I see things. I believe there are people who put animations, games, movies or whatever else out on the internet just because they want to share it with the world. They have no higher ambitions. They do not care about hits to their website or the profits it could bring them. There are others who think what they bring to the table is god's gift to human kind and if they can't be recognized for creating then the world does not deserve it.
I guess it comes down to whether you animate for yourself, or if you animate for the validation of others(perhaps in the form of profits).
I may have gotten lost on a tangent, but when you consider the two different mindsets you might understand how some people can not truly understand what is wrong with their "stealing" of someone else work. Some people don't even think of it as making money off of someones work, but when some does have such a popular site that they can actually make a profit off of their website this can hardly be considered the case.
Either way, there are a lot of naive people there. Some do not understand by taking something off of google images and putting it on their website that they are inadvertently claiming it as their own unless they otherwise credit the creator. Then again, ignorance is not an excuse. I would have to say people can be somewhat hypocritical at times though. When you "borrow" music from major musical artist for your flash without their permission is it that much different from someone using your flash animation on their website without asking you?
I think I just played the devil's advocate, which is not something I had set out to do.

Alexa.com

I was trying to find that site before but couldn't remember what the hell it was called. Since when is the second largest demographic on newgrounds from Tiawan?

At 2/21/07 07:29 PM, fuhQ2 wrote: Oh my bad, I didn't read the posts until I posted mine. I won't post about the riddle in this one anymore, but if someone does a make a thread for it, can they at least post a link in here that goes to it?

Post all Cybex riddles questions here.

At 2/21/07 08:48 PM, GregLoire wrote:

At 2/21/07 08:43 PM, jmtb02 wrote: He hasn't responded to me, but he has removed the Flash from the site.

Which he wouldn't have done if not for the fact that he knows he can be sued.

My original point was just that this kind of thing is illegal, and action can be taken. I never meant to imply that it can be stopped in the first place.

But really taking someone to court is expensive. Some people just don't have the money in the first place to take someone to court.

Jmtb02, i did see you had a CC liscence on it when you posted the preview. What happened to that?

RE: Alexa.com

I was looking at that yesterday, it made me laugh. Maybe none of them come on the bbs, just watch the movies ect.

At 2/21/07 08:33 PM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote: JMTB, you could have used flash's date object and _url to make it able to only be played on your site, then deactivate the protection on the right date.

Just a suggestion.

Where's our game bitch? Lol I haven't seen you on aim in a long time, and we started this game, uh what, a year ago?

RAWR