Writing

I'll admit defeat to you both (234blah blah, and ImpendingRiot) in man hours and the work ethic phase. There is something else I neglected to mention though.

Statistically speaking there are more decent artists than writers on Newgrounds. Flame me all you want, wannabee writeres, but generally the writing on Newgrounds is generally absolute rubbish.

Things like Adam Phillips stories are my bare minimum as far as a quality idea can go, and I have pages worth of hurtful things to so about those stories too, but those are for some other time.

The best writing here comes out of Eric Drobile in the Merry Melony series and concepts. Originality is what makes something worth more than anything else, really, because anyone can use someone else idea and with a little time change it to something painted a new colour. It takes a true artist however to make something no one has had a whiff of familiar and real enough to ring true and be interesting while still being brand spanking new.

Now to get the point out, as I'm rambling. To be a very decent animator on Newground is something that almost everyone here can do with patience and pratice and time. We're all fairly talented in the visual department I would say, so that is something. Animation is lots of technique and tedious details and the like, but it CAN be learned to an extent. Writing however is much mopre reliant on real and natural clear born unadultered talent, or so I find. Sure there are it's tedious points such as grammar, but if you're really clever with your work and can bypass even that.

So basically what I'm saying at this time is that, on NewGrounds, writing is a much more rare and uniquely powerful gift and should be given it's really chance to blossom and grow and blow us all away, and I think that in the long run, if two of us here got together to do just that, we'd all find that to get a truely phenonmenal final product the effort of both parties would be to a large exten fairly equal.

Johnny's Hate of Misuse of English

I meant to talk about this is my last post, but I forgot. I'm with you 100% on this thing man. The irony was such a brilliant point, and I would like to bring up terms such as 'awesome' and 'amazing' as well. Oh, and how people use the word 'gotten' when it doesn't even truly exist in the English language.

Awesome

This word specifically refers a sight or event that creates all-encompassing. It's very similar to it's proverbial cousin, awe-inspiring, but not quite synonimous (spelt that wrong). People very often use it just to mean something enjoyable or great or fun, and it's real meaning gets lost to many peopl

The other day I was on the bus to school, and heard of I teacher I'm fond of having been injured. I said it was an awesome thing that such tragedy could come in such an odd way (long story, but I assure you, it was weird). I was then given detention by an adminstrator for disrepect to a staff member. I got out of it, because I'm clever like that, but it bothered me none the less.

Amazing

Very much the same problem we have with awesome. It's being used solely to report positive reactions to many things, despite that fact that it very clearly means that you're simply amazed by something, and isn't supposed to infer an actual oppinion about anything.

Gotten

It just isn't a word, so don't use it people. It was fine until I started seing it being used in professional journalism. Then it went to far. Sure it's there in dictionaries, but it's slang and really just lame and doesn't deserve our attention. We're better than gotten people, and I think you all know it.

I have plenty of rants like this for other days, but these should suffice for now. Enjoy and feel free to flame me now.

At 1/2/07 05:47 PM, MRat wrote:

:Then it went to far.

ARGH need edit button. Now I'm being useless at my one passion. TOO far, it went TOO far.

Re: Animating vs. Writing

i am by no definitioin of the word a writier, but of course everyone throughout their highschool career has written somehing that required a considerable amount of time.
I'd say a final essay can take from 10 to 20 hours. Now seeing that if i was a better writer and had the ability to put everything i had into those 7 pages it might take me double the time 20 to 40 hours. Which is a considerable amount of time and probably mentally draining..

But when it comes to animation there are times when animating 10 seconds takes me 10 hours and its pretty hard to stare at a computer screen for that long. Then there are times when character development takes 30 hours constantly refining and what not, especially when working with maya or swift 3d. Also interpruting a story no matter how well written is hard to think of every detail for every scene so in a sense your writing where the writer left off, combining both.

So personally i think animating does take more time and is possibly more mentally draining as you can write anywehre but flash animation needs to be in one place so just for that fact i'd say animators have the more time consuming job. It may not be the hardest, it also may be the hardest, it just takes the most time

English lesson over

Lets just assume that some people know what irony is and some dont.. some use the english language well and some dont and let it be. its like page 10 of english class and its really boring the lounge up. agree to disagree and just move on. Some people dont want to be educated anyway.. they want to come in and keep shit informal.

-L

In response to Mrat (continued)
i was writing while you posted the part i'm quoting

At 1/2/07 05:47 PM, MRat wrote: Writing

.

Statistically speaking there are more decent artists than writers on Newgrounds.

100% the truth ng is a draw to animators although in the world there are far more talented writers than animators, in my opinion

Now to get the point out, as I'm rambling. To be a very decent animator on Newground is something that almost everyone here can do with patience and pratice and time.

Animation is lots of technique and tedious details and the like, but it CAN be learned to an extent.

Agreed it is refined and reformed b i'm going to comment on the similarities of writing belo your next comment.

:Writing however is much mopre reliant on real and natural clear born unadultered talent, or so I find. Sure there are it's tedious points such as grammar, but if you're really clever with your work and can bypass even that.

As any art writing can be learend, i'd say animation and the ability to visualize and analyze (and exagerate) movement isn't something that can't be learned, the techniqual aspects can be learned but not the creative side.

I'd say anybody can learn how to write its true like everything requires some natural ability, writing doesn't require any more "talent" than to animate. You can learn how to write and well, so i completely disagree with the above statement

So basically what I'm saying at this time is that, on NewGrounds, writing is a much more rare and uniquely powerful gift and should be given it's really chance to blossom and grow and blow us all away, and I think that in the long run, if two of us here got together to do just that, we'd all find that to get a truely phenonmenal final product the effort of both parties would be to a large exten fairly equal.

Once again i agree with you but ng is a draw to animators because that is there focus, i'm sure there are sites dedicated to writing where it is very uncommon to find a good animator.
Personally due to the nature of the site i Believe that the animator shoudl retain most of the credit rather than the writer

This is not an English Lesson

I'd just like to point of to N2NFilms that the interpreting of the story shouldn't be left to the animator if he's working with a writer in a real sense of teamwork. It's up to the writer to sit down and chat it up with the animeister (that was intentional) and for the writer to go over hour after hour witht the animator explaining and helping things to be what should be there.

It big film sense this is never the case because above the the director has say, but here on NG it should really be up to the real father of the story to control how things are going to be done and to be the real dedicated one to the telling of the story.

Unless theres a designated director the writer should always be sitting there, double, triple, and quadrouple checking all the work to make sure it's what it is, and if it isn't, come up with a way to make it right.

Re: River City Ransom

I was getting the impression not many of here had ever played the game. Considering the game game out in 1990(1989 in Japan), half the people here weren't even born. I was playing my NES almost up until I got an N64. Sadly, I don't think I ever played River City Ransom but I'm familiar with the game. It kind of reminds me of a soccer game for NES, and I did a little research and found out they were both made by Technos Japan Corporation.

Question on gameplay: Will people be broken up into color coded groups with different types of weapons being associated with different groups like River City Ransom?

Link if you're interested in the similar style of characters:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_World_C up
River City Ransom, for those too lazy to wiki it themselves:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_City_Ranso m
Hilarious River City Ransom spoof:
http://www.mega64.com/rcr.htm

At 1/2/07 06:04 PM, MRat wrote: This is not an English Lesson

I'd just like to point of to N2NFilms that the interpreting of the story shouldn't be left to the animator if he's working with a writer in a real sense of teamwork. It's up to the writer to sit down and chat it up with the animeister (that was intentional) and for the writer to go over hour after hour witht the animator explaining and helping things to be what should be there.

Completely agreed how that should be done that way it leaves room for artistic interpritation from both sides, unfortunately i write my own scripts so I've never had the oppurtunity to work a writer that focussed

It big film sense this is never the case because above the the director has say, but here on NG it should really be up to the real father of the story to control how things are going to be done and to be the real dedicated one to the telling of the story.

So maybe it should be: Writing/Directing vs. Animation as that realy does combine two jobs making it mroe challenging then just writing.

Unless theres a designated director the writer should always be sitting there, double, triple, and quadrouple checking all the work to make sure it's what it is, and if it isn't, come up with a way to make it right.

I'm not sure if i read that right but I agree, but i do stick by my argument that animation takes longer, although the level of difficulty for writing is lower if you combine that with directing i'd say it levels the playing field more and definetly would deserve half the credit.

Unfortunately to my knowledge of ng writers, which is basically "I Write Scripts" threads they simply give you the script and expect co-author credit which they shouldn't be expecting for somethign they probably made the day before, but a commited writer involved in the developement definetly does deserve co-authorship

You've swayed me by showing me how a real writer works with an animator, but i stil lthinking animation is slightly more challenging and that both require the same amount of natural talent.

Writting, final say and then I'm done.

Well I'm jumping in Luis' pants just agreeing to disagree here. I think your point about learning to write is just bullshit and wrong. Conventions are one things, but stories, not just the telling, but the STORIES themselves are just their in your head or they're not. You might not notice them all the time, but you're either the person who can come up with one or you ain't. I spend more than enough time with writers and publishers to know plain and simple that this just a fact.

As for NewGrounds just being a haven for the animator types, I think you're also spewing fecal matter. NewGrounds is an ANIMATION site, not animator, and an animation cover every last little detail of a production. This is voice acting, this is art, this is music, this is direction, this is animation, this is the story. It's all aspects that make a film good, not just one, and as such all are going to be very important.

I know I came across harsh with bullshit comment, and I don't want to offend you, cuz you seem like a nice reasonable guy, but to me it sounds like you're just speaking inexperienced crap you pulled out of your ass. I've been here on the seen for just over 4 years now, even if it's been in the sahdows, and I've seen plenty of both ends, and trust me, you don't really know what you're saying it seems.

Oh, and I still agree that in plain and simple hard work, animators have it tougher, but in the long run of things I think the ardour and mental taxation a writer NEEDS to go through to make something right warrants a balance.

END. I'm going to ignore this topic now, before I make Big Momma Luis cranky.

Jesus I'm hypocritical, Wrting

This is it, final for real.

I love you now Next2Nothing, we really agree about those douches that just hand out some shit loser parody and expect to be credited for half the work.

The thing with me is that a writer should always direct his story, not neccesarily the whole production, but his stories and his characters (who to many of us are like children) so that nothing is lost in translation.

There is is, I NEED to resist the urge to say anything else.

Re: My Final Say

I'll agree to disagree as well, and first of all i'd like to say i've been here for 3 years in march.

So you seem reasonable but stubborn so i'm expecting you to change your opinion but i'd rather defend mine to those who are undecided.
Due to the nature of this site mainly amateur animation, there are some pros, if you ask most of the animators here who write their own stories they would consider themselves animators rather than writer.

I still disagree that with the fact that writing is more of a inbred talent than animation but everyone has there beliefs so its all good

and i hope that this can be dropped and we can all get along

At 1/2/07 06:22 PM, Next2NothingFilms wrote: and i hope that this can be dropped and we can all get along

It will be dropped. Because only you two are engaged in this and you can argue amongst yourselves via pm. im banning both of you until friday on the next long rant to each other.
you've had your last words. move on.

sorry.

The Dark Tower

Who hear has read any of the Dark Tower series by Stephen King. I know he's hated in alot of circles because he has such a reputation for being the big man and alot of people think he doesn't deserve it, but let all that go, because this is the stuff real classics are made of.

I'd like to recommend to every single member of the entire NG BBS to read this book, but I won't because I'd just get flamed to shit. I will, however, suggest that all you lovely chaps here read it from book one through to book seven. Now I know it adds up to like 6000 pages, but we're big boys and can deal with that.

This series is better than Lord of the Rings, and I used to be a pretty big LOTR (THE BOOKS AND NOT MOVIES) fanboy before, but this series just blows any fantasy/sci-fi out of the water.
You have to be patient until the very last page of the last book to really undestand just everything goes on throughout the world King creates, but its worth it.

The story is so immersive and the characters ring so true that there is no way this can be described as anything but a masterpiece.

Please at least pick up the first intstallment "The Gunslinger" and read the whole thing to give it a chance. It's a slow start, but it needs to be, and it makes up for it quick.

wow, i leave for a day and suddenly there's a great english debate. well, i write, but fuck it. i'm not backtracking to be involved with this nonsense.

My New Years DAY...not EVE

it was definitely crazier than my night. after my band's show on teh eve, our bassist said that we should all go swimming on teh day. and yes, i do live in western PA. so the drummer and I decided that we'd go on this little adventure. We head up to Lake Arthur at noon to meet up with trevor (the bassist), kenney, and bailey (the two other people are simply friends that need no background) and discuss our strategy. the beach was definitely closed and we didn't want to get caught. there was a secret spot the trevor knew of and had done this type of thing before at, but it was simply too grimey there.

so we finally all decide that we're saying fuck it and running in here. trevor, steve (the drummer), kenney, and i ran in while bailey takes the video camera and shoots the whole episode (she was horribly ill so it was best for her to stay out of the water). we make sure we're soaked and run out almost as fast as we run in. steve, kenney, and i run into one car and the other two into another (we had left the heaters on of course). warming up, we drive to a nearby coffee shop (but not before changing behind a church on the way).

unfortunely, the shop is closed and so is pretty much everything else in the little town, so we decide to go about 15 minutes away to denny's. but of course it's crammed, so we leave again to eat at pan(t)era bread. unfortunely, i loathe that preppy shithole, but fortunely, there was a cici's pizza right across from it. so after cramming my gullet full of cheap buffet pizza, i return to pan(t)era bread.

this is where the second portion of my new years day gets crazy.

kenney mentions that he had tried to stay in a walmart for 24 hours while completing an online list of 69 things to do in walmart. we (minus trevor) decide to go for it.

the list can be found here .

we drive to hermitage to attempt this challenge at the 4th largest walmart in the US. arriving at 4:50, we decide to enter at 5. i smoke a cigarette to pass the time and discuss the upcoming happening.

5 o'clock

let's roll

so we enter the gigantic walmart with only a list and a heart full of dreams. the first thing we did was filled a shopping cart with tons of shit from all the different departments. Food, clothes, power wheel batteries, 35 pound weights, etc. then, we proceed to ditch it in the dog food aisle.

steve attempted to put m&ms on layaway, but to our dismay, it no longer exist.

i asked a lady to be most kind to point me in the directon of the twinkies.

kenney asked the ladies at electronics if walmart carried jimmy jammers (they're battery chargers the collect electro-static energy)

but probably most fun was sneaking boxes of condoms into other people's shopping carts.

the saddest part of this epic though was at 11 hour, we were pretty much alone in walmart, reading cheesey romance novels (he took his aching erection and placed it in her scolding sheath) when walmart security (who we were fully aware were watching us at that point), kindly asked us to leave.

and while it was a very sad moment, it was also a very neccessary thing. we were so sleep deprived that we were primed to go clinically insane any minute. the flourescent lights would have been the death of us.

so that was it. hopefully someone can find this ammusing. i'll post pics and maybe a link to the video if you guys would like

At 1/2/07 05:20 PM, Shmelo wrote: You need a gimmick like a series or something.

RE: Masterswordman and a site

Well thats one step of my masterdly plans...

Voice actors...

Re: River City Ransom

While its true that I've never actually played River City Ransom, I have a pretty good idea of the gameplay. I think it should be sort of like Dad n' Me in the way that it should be just one big level and as you go through it, the scenery gradually changes.

I also had idea for a boss, which is erielly similar to the beginning of Megaman X3. The boss is where you're on a rooftop and a giant robot is in the backround shooting at you or something. But when I think of giant robots, I think of Mindchamber(With his big robot dude) who could in fact be one of the bosses.

There should be a backround story as well, like all the Newgrounds Admins have been possessed are are going on a rampage killing everyone in...um...NewgroundsLand..or city...or something (Which is what that destroyed city in the Newgrounds logo is. It got destroyed by NG Admins...yeah.)

Just a few suggestions...

Political Uproar over Toons = Dumb

I think your WIP just just perfect the way it is ImpendingRiot, and I in know way find your design descision a copout, so we'll get that out of the way. I always take the position on anything that, well fuck, it's a cartoon, AND a joke, why even care. It's serious commentary because its stretched and exeragerated in the first place.

I'd like to point out that I will viciously muder anyone who opposes me on this matter :D

Re: Ethics

as is the nature of posting anything controversial you are going to get some neggative responses from people who feel you are doing something wrong. Personally I think its a touchy subject but i'd post how i felt the movie was actually made rather than the terrible choices our government made (after springboarding to Iraq). But i couldn't say i'd have that kind of foresight if you didn't put something up in your comments, but by having it there it makes people who otherwise would review this in order to show there political standing is rate on how well the movie was made if it was funny and what not.

So far the animations looks nice and if you continue you'll run into some trouble but not as much as you may think. And those who do decide to take an oppurtunity to show there politics are insecure douches, that i'd put that out there

At 1/2/07 07:01 PM, ImpendingRiot wrote: I'm just wondering if my decision to not depict the soldiers as American in this and future films is a cop out.

It's not a cop out because the executioners were neither soliders nor American. Also, if you're feeling brave, instead of Blue Vs Red have Shias Vs Sunni. =P

Although, with the actual execution footage floating around the 'net, and the violence that it caused, this flash might not be a good idea.

Ethics

I'm a pretty selfish and careless, not to mention often cold and heartless bastard, and I'll get a laugh no matter who gets offended if I think its funny. Things are taken way to seriously these days I find, and often times people see threat where there is none at all. I know I do, and I hate myself for it. We should always all just make fun of each other and stuff. I'm often quick to use my sharp tongue, but I hope everyone realizes that there is no offensive stance intended and that I'm just rambling on in a direct way.

As for conflict created by this toon, fuck the asses who are too insecure and uptight to appreciate it. It is not in any way your fault if they interpret it wrong. If they can't accept that it's just a joke and start killing each other, that's their own damn fault for being immature and ridiculous.

Thats my opinion.

River City Ransom Rant

I was playing it for a while...maybe two hours or more between two times. It got really annoying both time. The enemies would be kinda easy to kill with a weapon but when they had weapons they would constantly throw them at me from across the screen. I hate how when you're on the ground they can pick you up and throw you multiple times.
I don't understand the stats either, they don't seem to do very much. Like if I increase my defense I still die just as fast. And no matter what I eat it almost always says max power full and my health will go up but if its full it should give me full health, which it doesn't. Unless health is vitality, I have no idea.
It also seems kinda pointless to fight everyone sometimes when you can just leave the screen when there are still enemies on the screen. You can literally run right past probably everyone in the entire game.
Maybe, this might not be how it was originally on the NES, its hard to trust a mod.

At 1/2/07 07:38 PM, Kirk-Cocaine wrote:

At 1/2/07 07:01 PM, ImpendingRiot wrote: I'm just wondering if my decision to not depict the soldiers as American in this and future films is a cop out.

It's not a cop out because the executioners were neither soliders nor American. Also, if you're feeling brave, instead of Blue Vs Red have Shias Vs Sunni. =P

That has to be done! I seriously lolled at that :P

Mitchell and Webb

I just finished watching series three of Peep Show, and I've come to one conclusion: Davit Mitchell and Rob Webb are GODS.

They're just about the funniest guys on TV right now. They're about 50 times funnier than those idiots Matt Lucas and David Walliams (literally; if anything that's an understatement), and they've made the funniest sketch show that's been on for decades.

I hope everyone will join me in saying...

THAT'S NUMBERWANG!!!

At 1/2/07 04:07 PM, Rammer wrote: RE: Luis' hazy idea

At 1/2/07 03:54 PM, patu1 wrote: i wuld like to participate i can draw praety good nor awsome an i can animte well you know simple stuff

patu1...WHO ARE YOU? why do you keep posting here? you aren't a flash reg! i'm not sure if you can even spell "flash"!

shut up you big bitch if i were you i wont open my geeky mouth it is not my foult
i can't spell right it is beacose my english techer iq is about 5 okey so shut up or
i will hunt you down and kill you uderstood ???

Patu1

Don't be a moron. It's because you say dumb thing such as this that people make comments about you. If you're going to participate in something like this, you're going to have to be a little more sensible about just what exactly you do. You're acting like a 13 year old child, and hell maybe you are, but this is a place for mature (ish) people to talk like reasonable adults, and every now and then say somethine retarded

Please don't make me hate you.

Mitchell and Webb

Oh poo, is this UK exclusive or something? I love the sketch comedies that come out of there. In days long since past, I used to watch The Fast Show religiously. You guys make me sad to not have SkyTV.

RE: River City Ransom Rant

Maybe, this might not be how it was originally on the NES, its hard to trust a mod.

Well maybe it just doesnt suit you. I hate the stat system though i found that part of it to be stupid. I dunno i just liked how the characters look and how it was mindless beating people up. Maybe I have tastes that are easily fulfilled when it comes to gaming.
thats no reason to not trust me... hmph.

Warning ... again.

The person impersonating me on AIM is back trying to get passwords from you all so be on the lookout for that. Trust me I have no need for your password and neither does anyone else so for the sake of saving yourself a headache just block anyone claiming to be me and asking for your password or semen samples.

Well maybe just the password part.. mods have been known to request for semen samples for medical purposes.

River city ransom

Ah, i've not played that game but i've seen it's sprites used in places. Would people be drawing hair, faces, clothes to be randomised, or would people actually be doing there own sprites of themselves?

Hah, i was gunna say give a brief description of the game but fuckit, I got money to burn or moderatly synge now I got da man off ma' back.

At 1/3/07 07:34 AM, MRat wrote: Patu1

Don't be a moron. It's because you say dumb thing such as this that people make comments about you. If you're going to participate in something like this, you're going to have to be a little more sensible about just what exactly you do. You're acting like a 13 year old child, and hell maybe you are, but this is a place for mature (ish) people to talk like reasonable adults, and every now and then say somethine retarded

Please don't make me hate you.

okey but just for you to know lol i just ternd 14 today and it makes me mad peaple
lughing at my anglish let's see them learn hebrew any way point taken

river city ransom

Been done to death.

wait, one line post, oh noes!

At 1/3/07 08:53 AM, ArthurGhostly wrote: RE: River City Ransom

Just for the sake of it, how close is This compaired to the original.

RE: River City Ransom

Nice link, yeah thats the basic premise, except i want it to run more like dad n' me where its a long string ... one thing that bugged me about RCM is that you can run through all the 'level's... granted you'd eventually have to go back to accomplish certain tasks but i always found that stupid. In my vision of the game youd have to clear the area before you could continue scrolling.. again much the same as golden axe/final fight/ castle crashers?

Anyway i dont care if its been done to death.. it hasnt been done with my style and i still plan on doing it with or without peoples support.

-L

newgrounds city ransom

At 1/3/07 10:30 AM, Luis wrote: Anyway i dont care if its been done to death.. it hasnt been done with my style and i still plan on doing it with or without peoples support.

oyu have my support ;)

although that style of game has been done so much, if you manage to put it somehting new and never before seen intot he game then it'll be awsome :D!

like a make your own levels thing :D