At 4/9/10 04:26 PM, Farza wrote:

drop me a pm if someone hasnt helped you already

Yes Luis. Help us get that thing submitted today.LET IT BE AWESOME

go away im not talking to you! :P

At 4/9/10 05:07 PM, Luis wrote:

At 4/9/10 04:26 PM, Farza wrote:

drop me a pm if someone hasnt helped you already

Yes Luis. Help us get that thing submitted today.LET IT BE AWESOME

go away im not talking to you! :P

Lol. It's cause of you being artist for the game right?lol. I'm not sure what went wrong.

But if you help Archon with the Medals, you help me as well!

Im also the collab organizer :)

DAMMIT YOU GOT POST 56,000.

I should have payed attention to the post count.

At 4/9/10 06:23 PM, CaptainPoncho wrote:

At 4/9/10 04:55 PM, Jynxxx wrote: Are there any new features in CS5 worth mentioning? DIdn't pay attention to anything else once I read about the Flash-to-iPhone stuff.

The custom code-hinting is going to be really nice if you use Flash for actionscript.

Not a good enough reason to fork over $300+ for a new version of Flash.

At 4/9/10 06:36 PM, CaptainPoncho wrote:

At 4/9/10 06:28 PM, Archon68 wrote: Not a good enough reason to fork over $300+ for a new version of Flash.

True, but if you're a student you often get it massively discounted. CS4 is under a hundred bucks from our school store (Windows 7 was free).

That's my student discount -- $300.

At 4/8/10 10:23 PM, HDXmike wrote: Farza, just shut the fuck up, seriously.

You just gave me hope for the future of this reg lounge

At 4/9/10 08:14 PM, Magical-Zorse wrote:

At 4/8/10 10:23 PM, HDXmike wrote: Farza, just shut the fuck up, seriously.

You just gave me hope for the future of this reg lounge

Magical-Zorse, just shut the fuck up, seriously.

Did I do good too?

re: Apple saying NO to Flash Export to iPhone four days before CS5 drops

I'm truly surprised that there isn't more outrage in this thread about this. I think this is because a lot of people are misinformed.

First off, this has nothing to do with Apple "saving money" by having to not review a ton of crappy apps. I hope people who say that aren't serious. It's just as easy, if not easier, to make crappy apps with Objective-C than Flash. Like others have said, the $100/year developer program cost will eliminate most kids from submitting crap anyway. The amount of money Apple would make with this Flash export capability would FAR outweigh those costs. All the new dev accounts + great games.

As for application speed, a lot of people are just wrong. Everyone should be aware that the iPhone/iTouch are SLOW by nature. They aren't such powerful devices. Why do you think they were only built to run one application at a time? When you see an iPhone app that was built in Flash run slowly, it's because it uses a lot of graphics, and probably isn't optimized. Tons of Objective-C apps run super slow too. And tons run fast, but those are usually the ones that display minimum data and have minimum moving parts. I have no doubt that Flash-converted apps would run similar.

So, it comes down to this. Apple is just ridden with idiots, and is plagued by their fanboy users who purchase their INCREDIBLY weak/overpriced computers. Apple just wants to crush every other method that isn't theirs, which is despicable. Even if you don't want to ever touch Flash to develop iPhone apps, if you're a developer, you should never want a company to enforce which methods people can use to make perfectly valid applications for their product. No one should agree with that, it's just bad for everyone.

Also, Flash might not be the only product hurt by this. A bunch of other companies base their products on software that creates native iPhone applications. With the very loose writing of that term, there's no telling how this might effect these development tools.

And I swear, anyone who ever writes "Microsoft" like "Micro$oft" again needs to have their head examined. If Microsoft is evil, then what in god's name is Apple??? They make Microsoft look like a charitable open source software company. Hell, even Microsoft won't be pleased with what Apple is doing. Anything restrictions that Microsoft has every imposed Apple has surpassed 100 times over.

At 4/9/10 08:43 PM, DFox wrote: And I swear, anyone who ever writes "Microsoft" like "Micro$oft" again needs to have their head examined. If Microsoft is evil, then what in god's name is Apple??? They make Microsoft look like a charitable open source software company. Hell, even Microsoft won't be pleased with what Apple is doing. Anything restrictions that Microsoft has every imposed Apple has surpassed 100 times over.

In the past couple weeks I've come to the decision that Apple is more of a selfish bastard than Microsoft is. I used to admire Apple because I assumed they were better than this, but now I realize how self-centered they really are.

At 4/9/10 08:21 PM, Archon68 wrote:

At 4/9/10 08:14 PM, Magical-Zorse wrote:

At 4/8/10 10:23 PM, HDXmike wrote: Farza, just shut the fuck up, seriously.

You just gave me hope for the future of this reg lounge

Magical-Zorse, just shut the fuck up, seriously.

Did I do good too?

damn I missed the 56,011th post, I'll ever be cool

So then are you saying that Apple made the move because they're deficient? That's not the case, it's probably simply to retain control of the developer base, rather than letting it escape to other companies developing cross-platform tools. The timing is of course also to troll Adobe. Which is fine by me, as both are terribly retarded corporations.

The hardware is entirely capable of running some graphics, the CS5 support is most likely as rubbish as reported. (Read last page - Glaiel knows what he's doing, and Today I Die is a really simple game.) It would not surprise me, it's consistent with the record of Adobe needing loads of effort to come up with a much-advertised feature that is barely usable practically, years after some guys implement it properly with haXe for kicks.

At 4/9/10 08:43 PM, DFox wrote: As for application speed, a lot of people are just wrong. Everyone should be aware that the iPhone/iTouch are SLOW by nature.

Let me put it this way, if I wasn't clear enough before:
The application speed isn't just shitty, it's super mega ultra impossibly i dont know how the fuck they make it so god damn slow wtf is this 1989 shitty.

It is so slow it is literally of no use to ANYONE. There's not even a small niche of text based or turn based games where the speed would be "good enough" for.

Oh, you need more than 2 shapes to change on a given frame? Too bad, you drop to half a frame per second. You have to render text? HAHAHAHA I feel sorry for you. Need to add 2 numbers together? Hold on while the gremlins in the machine go and do it manually without a calculator.

I have coded in c++ on the ipod. It is not a slow device. It is more powerful than a PSP or a DS for one thing, and it runs at 60 FPS even with some complicated effects and high res textures.

Whatever the fuck you think you will be able to do with flash to iphone export, forget it you can't. You shouldn't even try either, it's a waste of time and trust me when I say it is completely impossible to make anything interesting with it. COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE. No "but I only need to do a turn based RPG". It won't work and it'll be unplayably slow. Yes a static turn based RPG can be unplayably slow, if you want to see how just export it for the iphone from flash.

At 4/9/10 09:37 PM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote: Whatever the fuck you think you will be able to do with flash to iphone export, forget it you can't. You shouldn't even try either, it's a waste of time and trust me when I say it is completely impossible to make anything interesting with it. COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE. No "but I only need to do a turn based RPG". It won't work and it'll be unplayably slow. Yes a static turn based RPG can be unplayably slow, if you want to see how just export it for the iphone from flash.

Are you serious? There's a bunch of games created with Flash in the app store that use a bunch of graphics and they are perfectly playable... I've tried them myself, and so have my friends. And my friends aren't developers, and they still found them impressive. Not sure what you were doing, but maybe you should take a look at what some of the devs have done with it, because there are some perfectly good games, and they aren't even RPGs, they are games with constant movement...

Being that a native app with an advanced table view with multiple controls in each row can't really scroll smoothly with 15+ items in it, I wouldn't expect much from the graphics performance in app...

At 4/9/10 09:37 PM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote: I have coded in c++ on the ipod. It is not a slow device. It is more powerful than a PSP or a DS for one thing, and it runs at 60 FPS even with some complicated effects and high res textures.

Can I download some of these from the app store to see it in action? If you've actually created something that runs with decent graphics at 60fps on the iPhone/iTouch I'd honestly love to see because no iPhone performance has ever come close to impressing me.

At 4/9/10 09:48 PM, DFox wrote: Are you serious? There's a bunch of games created with Flash in the app store that use a bunch of graphics and they are perfectly playable...

link.

(i dont have a link for my crap since I let my dev license expire)

At 4/9/10 09:37 PM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote:

Whatever the fuck you think you will be able to do with flash to iphone export, forget it you can't. You shouldn't even try either, it's a waste of time and trust me when I say it is completely impossible to make anything interesting with it. COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE. No "but I only need to do a turn based RPG". It won't work and it'll be unplayably slow. Yes a static turn based RPG can be unplayably slow, if you want to see how just export it for the iphone from flash.

Interesting, now i didn't really have any intentions of publishing to iPhone but its interesting hearing these debates. Thanks for clearing this up Glaiel :)

Its too bad apple and adobe can't collaborate on something like that. You'd think that an "export to iPhone" option would only be good news for apple (You know provided the game is a game and not some hack job thing that someone just whips up in a day and a half).

I mean, at first google and apple teamed up against their common enemy microsoft. And now both of them have risen and grown to fight each other through press conferences and what not. Its too bad because there's a lot of the whole "retaining control of the developer base" thats REALLY going to get out of hand one day IMO. It'll be like "you buy 1 product and you're stuck using that companies stuff forever"...

possibly :P

At 4/9/10 10:15 PM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote: link.

Sure: http://vimeo.com/10557778

Look at all the stuff they show in that. It starts with live streaming video. I'm not saying it produces the fastest applications ever but are you going to seriously keep saying it doesn't produce usable and cool stuff? I think anyone would admit 90% of everything in the app store is garbage anyway so who knows, maybe this would have changed that and produced some really cool apps. And I'm sure the compiler was only going to get better and faster.

At 4/9/10 10:20 PM, Duchednier wrote: Interesting, now i didn't really have any intentions of publishing to iPhone but its interesting hearing these debates. Thanks for clearing this up Glaiel :)

Before you consider it "cleared up" I'd suggest taking a look at the video I posted. And also check out stuff like Gold Strike in the app store, people actually really like it along with other Flash produced apps.

Its too bad apple and adobe can't collaborate on something like that. You'd think that an "export to iPhone" option would only be good news for apple (You know provided the game is a game and not some hack job thing that someone just whips up in a day and a half).

Apple teams up with no one unless they can explicitly use the other party for their benefit and then shit all over them. Just like they used Adobe products to become popular at all.

Oh and also, I don't want to come off as an Adobe fanboy. Because I'm not. Part of this issue stemmed from the idiots at Adobe sucking Apple's dicks for the longest time until today they finally realized it is Apple's goal to crush them. Seriously guys? You just figured that out? I like Adobe, but come on, even I have enough insight to see a year ago that Apple wasn't your friend. All I kept hearing from some of the naive Adobe evangelists was "we work with Apple", "They have no intentions to hurt us". What blind, blind people. And how they just kept marching around with their Apple products saying how much they loved Apple. Augh, it would make me sick. I've heard something like 90% of Adobe's revenue comes from PC software sales. PCs are superior, why suck Apple off for so long? I never understood it at all, and now Adobe will pay for it.

At 4/9/10 10:30 PM, DFox wrote: Look at all the stuff they show in that. It starts with live streaming video. I'm not saying it produces the fastest applications ever but are you going to seriously keep saying it doesn't produce usable and cool stuff? I think anyone would admit 90% of everything in the app store is garbage anyway so who knows, maybe this would have changed that and produced some really cool apps. And I'm sure the compiler was only going to get better and faster.

for one thing, playing video is the one thing flash actually does on the GPU, and the iphone streams video natively, so of course that's gonna work ok.

that "3D" game looks like it's literally a streaming video

if you watch closely at the other games, they only have 1-2 objects moving at once. Any animations on there were 2-3 frames max, running at what looks like 5 fps.

if you look at all the UI stuff, he had to hit most of them twice to get it to register.

I'm sick of arguing this anyway. I have first hand experience in actually using the iphone exporter (haven't tried it recently, they probably improved it a little bit but still not up to standards), and I am not a retard, I know how to optimize things ang get stuff to run fast. I don't want to spend 99% of my time making an iphone game in flash doing things like queuing up sound so i only play one sound effect at a time and staggering animations so only one plays at a time, convert all graphics to bitmaps so flash doesn't stupidly try to render them in vector (using cacheAsSurface on everything in today I die bumped the FPS up from 1 fps to a whopping 2 fps), figuring out how you can make less things move at once, do tricks like having it play video to simulate camera movement. It's a waste of time and the result is way less interesting than anything you could do in native code.

While I don't share Luis and Tylers omens of utter hopelessness when it comes to publishing to iPhone from Flash, as someone with first hand experience of making a full flash game work with it at decent speeds (18fps with 25+ or so moving movieclips on screen at once) my opinion of the CS5 exporter remains the same. I took me like, 2 months of on and off work to get "Defend Your Honor" running at a playable speed on Ipod Touch 2G (1G was a lost cause). For the same ammount of effort I could have learned the Apple SDK and ported it manually for way better results.
One thing I hate more than anything is to sound arrogant about my experience with Flash, but I think its safe to say that what took me two months to do would take anyone else (with a few exceptions) the same ammount of time at least to even scale a premade game down. Developing for it was a pretty much nightmare.
There are just too many hoops to jump through, for too little reward.
The CS5 upgrade looks like a complete ripoff, once you come to the realisation that the iPhone exporter isn't worth it by a long shot, and the only people who will really be hurt by this is Adobe, who will now have a harder sell for CS5 because the jumping on the iPhone bandwagon thign hasn't paid off for them.
For the users, the only way in which this will affect you is it will save you hours and hours of frustration, so in some ways it's a blessing for the uninformed, even if they dont' appreciate it. Like I said, its only Adobe who will be really hurt by this.

my opinion is based on Adobe's presenations in now two conferences ive been to. They are totally unprofessional and their demos run like shit. Maybe whoever they are sending to run these demo's should be fired cause it really is terrible.

Maybe it is awesome and i havent run into it.

CS5 is the first update to flash I'm gonna be skipping out on

At 4/10/10 12:57 AM, ImpendingRiot wrote: I had a large popcorn chicken and potato wedge combination from Kentucky Fried Chicken today. It was satisfying. Not a gourmet meal, but my bowels also didn't cry out for mercy.

that sounds delicious

must have been a good meal to eat while sifting through this forum debate

I'm going to reinstall Flash MX 2001.

Many of the problem with what Apple is doing is not about Adobe. Whatever, the Flash to iPhone converter is terrible, blah blah blah, it doesn't matter.

The bottom line is Apple is banning methods of creation, for the sole purpose of THEIR benefit. If you think it's about quality, then you're incredibly naive. Because if this was about quality, then all applications would be judged solely on how good they were, not what they were written in. And for this reasoning, I think Apple will take a big hit. Their iPad will be COMPLETELY obsolete when the HP slate comes out. But hey, Apple fanboys will still buy it, no doubt.

So yeah, even forgetting about Flash, every developer should still be against what Apple is doing, because they are not doing it to help the developers, they are not doing it to help the end-users, so that only leaves one party who they are doing it to "help", which is themselves.

http://www.swfme.com/view/1046212
:)

At 4/10/10 05:59 AM, DFox wrote: The bottom line is Apple is banning methods of creation, for the sole purpose of THEIR benefit. If you think it's about quality, then you're incredibly naive. Because if this was about quality, then all applications would be judged solely on how good they were, not what they were written in.

It's not about the quality of the content, although if you ask me Apple could be more strict on that, but some people might like apps others don't. It's about the quality of the user experience, they don't want memory/battery hogging apps. Of course money and control also play a role in Apple's decision, maybe a bigger one than quality control, no one can tell.

We're in a transition period from Flash to HTML5. Transitions are never easy, you need a couple of assholes to speed up the process every now and then. Apple is doing just that at the moment. In a year or two, maybe three this won't be an issue anymore, and people won't know any different. For a nice review on Flash for tablets you should give this a read (and watch the videos).

And for the record I'm not too happy about Apple's decision to block CS5 content, as I was very interested in giving it a go myself. But hey, if the apps run as shitty as Tyler says I couldn't care too much. Guess that means I'll have to spend some time learning a different language.

And for this reasoning, I think Apple will take a big hit. Their iPad will be COMPLETELY obsolete when the HP slate comes out. But hey, Apple fanboys will still buy it, no doubt.

I will bookmark this page, wait a year or two and send you a pm so we can both smile. Deal? Like it or not the thing will sell like almost everything Apple makes. The Slate won't even make a dent.

So yeah, even forgetting about Flash, every developer should still be against what Apple is doing, because they are not doing it to help the developers, they are not doing it to help the end-users, so that only leaves one party who they are doing it to "help", which is themselves.

I think there are a lot of App Store developers who do see Apple as being pretty helpful. They've created an entire new ecosystem for selling software which has been pretty profitable for a diverse crowd of people. I'm not to keen on the way Apple seems to be going, they exert a lot of control on a lot of aspects of their market, so far though, that hasn't lead to any significant negative outcomes for consumers imo. We'll see how things look two years from now.

I wonder how long it'll be before we start seeing HTML5 portals.

At 4/10/10 07:12 AM, Deadclever23 wrote: http://www.swfme.com/view/1046212

)

That is so awesome. It's so clever. It's... dead-clever.... ahahahahahahahaha

But really, that's hilarious.

At 4/10/10 07:12 AM, Deadclever23 wrote: http://www.swfme.com/view/1046212

)

Hahaha! Very good.
Did you make that? If so, I still want to see a Katamari level where everything is slightly bigger than you.
Although, the gravity is suprisingly low for somewhere so close to the core. I actually lost the first time because one of the blocks jumped back up and hit the one I was holding!

At 4/10/10 07:13 AM, Xeptic wrote: For a nice review on Flash for tablets you should give this a read (and watch the videos).

I may have missed something, but that was one tablet with Flash, not the whole party (it stated that the battery life was less than half as much as an iPad even when not using Flash, so hardly a fair comparison). It also stated that it was still waiting on hardware acceleration, which would speed up the Flash Player by quite a bit.
Either way, you're an independent, perfectly able human being. On that tablet, if Flash runs poorly, you have the choice to not use Flash. If you need Flash for something, you have the option available to you to use it. You're smart enough to make those decisions for yourself.
What Apple is doing, on the other hand, is making the decision for every person who buys the iPad. If it runs so poorly, why not tell people about that with a warning message whenever they try to use it, so that they can decide whether it is worth using or not. Taking people's options away is not what I call technological progress.

At 4/10/10 07:13 AM, Xeptic wrote: I think there are a lot of App Store developers who do see Apple as being pretty helpful. They've created an entire new ecosystem for selling software which has been pretty profitable for a diverse crowd of people. I'm not to keen on the way Apple seems to be going, they exert a lot of control on a lot of aspects of their market, so far though, that hasn't lead to any significant negative outcomes for consumers imo. We'll see how things look two years from now.

Personally, I feel that the way Apple treat developers is rather bad and almost abusive. First of all, you have to buy into the 'club', and that costs a hell of a lot. Then, after you have spent all that money, developed a game, got it on the App Store, and then spent further money advertising it, Apple have the right to remove the game without giving reason, and pay you no more than $50 in damages.
Here is a sum-up of the agreement which, in my opinion, shows how poorly Apple treat developers.
Now, I know that some of you will comment "Well, if it's so bad, then why do they agree? Developers must not mind the terms." But before you do, I'm sure you'll agree that few people will actually check the contract before they begin development on their app (not much helped by the 'silence' Apple developers are put under by the contract). So, after they've spent all that money on development and buying the kit, do you think they really have the option to say no? It's better to eat shit than not eat at all, but developers agreeing does not justify the demands which Apple has put into that contract.