At 7/15/09 12:34 AM, zrb wrote:

At 7/15/09 12:14 AM, Alpharius120 wrote: That's a very light salad.

Light ? Lightsaber. Lightsabersalad.
Yes.

Interesting play on words. I'll commend you for that.

Wakeboarding

Around one year ago I got into wakeboarding and these past two days I went to a little training session thing to learn tricks, and I must say, wakeboarding is loads of fun, and looks pretty awesome when you can accomplish a trick.
So anyone else here a wakeboarder/wakeskater/water skier or ever tried any of those?

At 7/15/09 12:40 AM, Alpharius120 wrote: Wakeboarding

Around one year ago I got into wakeboarding and these past two days I went to a little training session thing to learn tricks, and I must say, wakeboarding is loads of fun, and looks pretty awesome when you can accomplish a trick.
So anyone else here a wakeboarder/wakeskater/water skier or ever tried any of those?

For some reason I just read that whole post with wakeboarding=waterboarding...that was awesome.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterboardi ng

At 7/15/09 01:44 AM, BoMToons wrote:

At 7/15/09 12:40 AM, Alpharius120 wrote: So anyone else here a wakeboarder/wakeskater/water skier or ever tried any of those?

For some reason I just read that whole post with wakeboarding=waterboarding...that was awesome.

i'm pretty sure any tricks during waterboarding would be the removal of pants with your hands tied down.

At 7/15/09 01:51 AM, fluffkomix wrote:

At 7/15/09 01:44 AM, BoMToons wrote: For some reason I just read that whole post with wakeboarding=waterboarding...that was awesome.

i'm pretty sure any tricks during waterboarding would be the removal of pants with your hands tied down.

What do you mean, waterboarding is FUN!

At 7/15/09 01:44 AM, BoMToons wrote:

At 7/15/09 12:40 AM, Alpharius120 wrote: Wakeboarding

Around one year ago I got into wakeboarding and these past two days I went to a little training session thing to learn tricks, and I must say, wakeboarding is loads of fun, and looks pretty awesome when you can accomplish a trick.
So anyone else here a wakeboarder/wakeskater/water skier or ever tried any of those?

For some reason I just read that whole post with wakeboarding=waterboarding...that was awesome.

That seems super duper intense.
I just read the whole post using waterboarding and for once actually did lol.

Mad waterboard tricks.

At 7/14/09 08:02 PM, liaaaam wrote: Stop being such a revolutionist and stick to our conventioonnnsss. Get the (metaphorical) game sponsored like everyone else, and enjoy your lump sum of cash >: P If you want to revolutionise the flash game industry, then draw up a business plan and talk to your local bank ;)

A few seconds of thought says to me that the collective sponsorship kitty is not going to pay me $3000 after tax for a parlour game I make every four weeks. The lump sum payment is fine if thats all you're into, but I personally would like to make games full time rather than sit here batch processing images in photoshop and creating banner adverts. So personally, I'd like to find a business model thats not going to cripple me.

Shareware was never popular with 'proper' games, I can't see people taking to it on flash games especially since they're available universally over the webs.

See this is where I disagree. A lot of people played Shareware games and coped with just getting a fifth of the content for free before having to shell out for it- Doom tells us that much. Most didn't buy the game at the end, and thats fine. Thats the to-be-expected point - not everyone's going to cash out for you. But hopefully some people ARE happy with what you have created and wish to pay for the additional service.

The trick is in two parts - making the value of the content match the value of the game, and making the purchase easy. Both of those are tough enough even considering the job of making a cracker's life less than easy.

At 7/15/09 07:01 AM, KaynSlamdyke wrote: A few seconds of thought says to me that the collective sponsorship kitty is not going to pay me $3000 after tax for a parlour game I make every four weeks. The lump sum payment is fine if thats all you're into, but I personally would like to make games full time rather than sit here batch processing images in photoshop and creating banner adverts. So personally, I'd like to find a business model thats not going to cripple me.

Im pretty sure you can make way more than that. As long as youre releasing a quality original game every month, you are gonna get a few big hits. Lump sums look attractive, but I guarantee if you go with a performance based sponsorship and get a good few million views youll be getting $10k+ .

It is a risky industry and inevitably you are going to get some failures, but if you build up an ip and put the work in you can make some serious cash. Im actually scared to think how much LongAnimals has made this year already.

This was a pretty interesting article, apparently boxhead makes $50k a game now.

At 7/15/09 07:01 AM, KaynSlamdyke wrote: The trick is in two parts - making the value of the content match the value of the game, and making the purchase easy. Both of those are tough enough even considering the job of making a cracker's life less than easy.

Easy purchasing is something which really needs to get sorted out. The closest we have at the moment is PayPal, which your average player won't have anyway. If some big standardised system were sorted out to make it easy for teenagers especially to make small purchaces online (e.g. less than a quid), potential profits would rocket up IMO. Maybe link it up to phone credit or something somehow.

At 7/14/09 05:49 PM, Luis wrote: Alot of flash reg lounge 'regs' winning daily awards lately . Good job team.
Nice to see everyone wandering away once in awhile and making award-winning gamez.

Maybe one day Toast will make something.

probs not. o well

<3

Probably not :)
I'm still working on it though. I just finished downloading flash 8 on my own PC in israel, there was problems with the router blocking my torrents (not illegal btw, im using the flash 8 30 days trial). I had some ideas for more levels

But either way I don't care much for awards and honors, and I definitely don't want e-fame. Game development is just a small hobby for me, im not too concerned about it,

At 7/15/09 08:17 AM, Jimp wrote: It is a risky industry and inevitably you are going to get some failures

I think that venturing out alone is all about adapting and staying aggressive. The stakes are high and its definately not for everyone but the rewards are limitless and also you probably will have a greater sense of accomplishment in the end.

Its a brutal step to quit your job and go freelance and i totally respect people who go that route. I lasted a year and then decided it wasnt for me. Or atleast not yet.

I think my only real recommendation would be to stay flexible and aggressive. I was talking to egoraptor the last time i ran into him and he was telling me about commissions he did on the side, like he had his major deals and bread and butter projects but also left himself open to other projects that are quick wins.

You dont fall into the idea that youre going to be making games the whole time and that people will come to you with bags of money. I think most of what helps you succeed in your career is how you well you communicate with people, you can usually get sponsors/vendors/whatever to buckle to your ideas/monetary demands with effective communicating and really getting people excited about the idea YOU have. It begins to not be so much about your technical execution and more about how well you communicate that.

At 7/15/09 08:17 AM, Jimp wrote: This was a pretty interesting article, apparently boxhead makes $50k a game now.

All you said was right, but then this.. proves that you can just keep making crappy sequels and people will damn sure play them >_> Exactly the same goes for the "Bloon" games, which I've heard is making that guy a lot of money also.

At 7/15/09 09:45 AM, Paranoia wrote: If some big standardised system were sorted out to make it easy for teenagers especially to make small purchaces online (e.g. less than a quid), potential profits would rocket up IMO. Maybe link it up to phone credit or something somehow.

I was thinking the same thing the other day, like setting up a system where kinda like how you can buy ringtones with your cell phone via text msging or whatever. You could also buy game upgrades and shit with it. Maybe not that, but the concept of tapping into your mobile phone bill to make small impulse buys

At 7/15/09 10:18 AM, Luis wrote: I was thinking the same thing the other day, like setting up a system where kinda like how you can buy ringtones with your cell phone via text msging or whatever. You could also buy game upgrades and shit with it. Maybe not that, but the concept of tapping into your mobile phone bill to make small impulse buys

Didn't Glaiel mention that a week ago or so? He asked if people would be willing to pay for things game-wise over a phone, though I assume this was tied to Closure somehow.

I'd never use my phone to buy things like that, personally. I do use PayPal though, which would be easy to offer as an alternative since quite a lot of people use paypal, especially since it's partnered with eBay.

At 7/15/09 10:18 AM, Luis wrote:

At 7/15/09 09:45 AM, Paranoia wrote: If some big standardised system were sorted out to make it easy for teenagers especially to make small purchaces online (e.g. less than a quid), potential profits would rocket up IMO. Maybe link it up to phone credit or something somehow.

I was thinking the same thing the other day, like setting up a system where kinda like how you can buy ringtones with your cell phone via text msging or whatever. You could also buy game upgrades and shit with it. Maybe not that, but the concept of tapping into your mobile phone bill to make small impulse buys

Mochi are trying to do it with MochiCoins.

I think I made a post about this a while back, but it could potentially make or break Flash gaming. On one side, we arent tapping into players pockets at all yet, 99.999% of the money made from these games is from advertising. On the flipside, people play flash games because they are free and simple, and if all the big games start charging it could put off a lot of the audience. We shall see :)

At 7/15/09 10:38 AM, liaaaam wrote: I'd never use my phone to buy things like that, personally. I do use PayPal though, which would be easy to offer as an alternative since quite a lot of people use paypal, especially since it's partnered with eBay.

Paypal gouges you for cut off of any transaction tho. even more so if it involves foreign currency. I hate them for that.

Nonoba Payment, MochiCoin's major competator, already have Mobile payment options, as well as direct through Credit Card, Paypal and via taking surveys/offers/subscriptions to third parties

I'd just like to point out that the first game I've seen using Mochi coins is on the front page now..

• 

  SAS: Zombie Assault 2

  by Warnockworld

  Slaughter thousands of zombies using a bunch of guns, bombs and powerups.

  Game

  1,024,078 Views

  (Ages 13+)

=p

And holy crap, he charges for the save game...

At 7/15/09 11:11 AM, KaynSlamdyke wrote: And holy crap, he charges for the save game...

But the sad thing is I can totally see little kids
begging their parents to pay for that game.
I don't even like shooters that much, but it was strangely addicting.

At 7/15/09 11:28 AM, K-Guare wrote: But the sad thing is I can totally see little kids
begging their parents to pay for that game.
I don't even like shooters that much, but it was strangely addicting.

That's not sad. Thats EVERYTHING I've talked about on the past ten pages. Well, bar my account being hijacked and the Guitar Hero and CHarlie Brooker stuff...

Now. Why hasn't PsychoGoldfish got this in the NGAPI? :)

At 7/15/09 11:40 AM, citricsquid wrote: If you have a fun game that I love to play and you let me spend $1 for a new gun or faster running, I'd totally go for it, if you say "oh woops you haven't paid for a basic game feature, better pay to use it!" I'd close the game and be pissed off.

Depends. Roguelikes by thier very nature don't let you save - or rather, only give you one life and won't let you copy and paste the save game slots, a tactic also used by Diablo II hardcore mode. You die in the dungeon, it's permadeath. So would an RPG being by default in Roguelike Mode until you spend a bit of scratch count as a basic game feature being sold to you?

And if so, what would you charge for in an RPG that could be seen as something tangible and with the spirit of the game? I don't like the idea of being able to buy levels (and that would suck wouldn't it? Having to pay $(Cost Per Level)x99 to power level each of your characters every time you restarted the game, or permenantly having the cheat option saying 'lol you don't need to waste time grinding' taunting you for playing the game 'properly'), or restricting access to content for people who don't want to pay. After all, assumedly someone with enough skill and the ability to keep thier computer on can complete a twenty hour game in a single sitting if they play conservatively, so I figure charging someone to save would be all above board, and stop people whining that they can't get the Greenback Coated Vorpal Killing Blade +5

Incidentally, Flash Nethack would rock so hard.

At 7/15/09 11:11 AM, KaynSlamdyke wrote: And holy crap, he charges for the save game...

Doesn't it say you just need an account for saving? I don't see any mention of charging for it, I assumed it was just the extra weapons you'd have to pay for.

Yes, the big thing here is not getting people to whip out a credit card. When you are some random kid its much harder for you to impulse buy something that requires your mom to plunk her credit card number into some random system.

What I like is innovation in use.

- Mochi is teamed with a rewards site so that people can do tasks on the web to earn rewards points, which they can then use to buy upgrades or other microtx when they see fit.

- Habbo Hotel and other interactive sites have prepaid cards available inside stores such as Target or Best Buy so that kids can spend their cash on the cards instead of credit.

- Webkinz integrates their online purchases with real-life stuffed animal purchases, so that parents are willing to get you that toy and you also get the online codes.

I think there are ways to do it, but convincing the user that investing a few bucks into your game when there are so many other free games out there is rather difficult. You have to have some giant hook or great game to really make some money beyond banner ads. It's been done, not easy, but doable.

At 7/15/09 11:40 AM, citricsquid wrote: enrage users

I agree. I dont mind paying for extra perks and upgrades, much like the castle crashers extra content, where you have extra characters and weapons etc.

I dont like the idea of charging people to save a game. It does seem like a core feature. I noticed he was already getting alot of burn for that in the reviews. To the point where people start to feel like they have to pay for the game to really enjoy it which is probably the last thing he wanted people to think.

Its cool to find new ways of finding pools of potential income but you have to be careful with it, cause in the end you do have to serve the userbase. You arent going to make money by burning bridges. You might make a few bucks out of some people who want to save the game but youre mostly going to turn off a whole new set of people who will feel like they are being gouged. That gouged group will spread word of mouth to other people and then people get shit twisted and suddenly things are distorted so much that people think they have to pay for the game to even use it. At which point you've killed your audience for the sake of the 10 bucks youve made from 10 users who paid to save the game.

At 7/15/09 11:40 AM, citricsquid wrote: If you want to make money through alternative methods, eg mochi coins, charging for saving is not the way to do it and will stunt the potential profit. I would have no problem with paying for a game to unlock extras, not core features, that will just enrage users.

That couldn't be more wrong. Charging for very small features is madness. The right way to get money from this method is to put up a sort of demo-game, or "limited edition" on newgrounds, and then charge 5 bucks or something to download the full version on your PC. Putting the whole game on the internet and charging for small features is wrong. Putting a demo version on the internet and charging for the full game download (which is supposed to be a game of high standards) is the right way to do it. That's how I see it.

At 7/15/09 12:16 PM, citricsquid wrote: Kayn: You seem to think that forcing players to pay up is a viable business model, it isn't.

At no point have I ever said I'm going to force people to pay money to progress. Effectively what I'm after is the demo/shareware model without the need to download a full version seperate to the one being played in the browser

At 7/15/09 11:04 AM, liaaaam wrote: I'd just like to point out that the first game I've seen using Mochi coins is on the front page now..
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/50 3322
=p

Wow, I can't believe how expensive all the items are in that game. Looks like you can unlock all the extras for $8.50, that's the full gun package plus unlocking "apocalypse mode" which is just a survival mode, and from my point of view, the silliest thing you can unlock, it's just the game without certain things... I would think you could unlock each item for around 25 cents, and the full package for maybe 3 or 4 dollars. If someone is really into the game, spending 4 dollars to unlock all the items and then playing the game for a few hours isn't too much bank for the entertainment value.

Charging for a save is just stupid.

If I ever charged for anything in my game I would want the core product to be 100% enjoyable by everyone that plays it. Charging to remove restrictions will turn off 99% of your audience. If you charge for extra levels/level editor/etc, everyone can enjoy the game in its glory, and allows players that really loved it to pay and take the game a bit further.

Nazi Zombies on Call of Duty is a great example of this, I bet they have raked it in compared to the development costs of making a few new levels. £10 a pop?

At 7/15/09 12:24 PM, Coaly wrote:

Wow, I can't believe how expensive all the items are in that game. Looks like you can unlock all the extras for $8.50, that's the full gun package plus unlocking "apocalypse mode" which is just a survival mode, and from my point of view, the silliest thing you can unlock, it's just the game without certain things...

And the crazy thing is, with the amount of hits that the game will get while on frontpage and mochi or wherever else on the internet that its played, how much money do you think this game is making for the author(s)?