I see the start of religion, when it was first "thought up", as being a means of control over large amounts of people. Emperors were worshiped as Gods (who would betray a God?), and many religious prophets had a large following (more power!).

Religion is an excuse. For good, but mostly bad things.

(this is just my opinion, feel free to rip it apart)

You can see that it's a mean to control people just by this sole statement: "believe in god or you go to hell", where hell is an eternity of infinite suffering. which one would you choose? And then when you choose believe in god you must also be nice to your parents, have faith in the pop and all that shit, never question your beliefs, convince other that your belief is correct, etc. I mean come on, it's pretty obvious.

Faith is fabrication that people choose to believe in to blame on gods their frustration that is caused by incompatibility between their mind and the world. Therefore it emotionally stabilizes people who don't have enough willpower to adjust themselves otherwise. The mind is flexible enough to believe both this and God and evolution too. (But then there are those that can't and nobody asks their opinion.)

When you start to discuss such things too much I feel I have to provide my opinion so everybody could agree to it and shut up.

At 8/14/08 10:41 AM, Toast wrote: <definition nazi> it all depends what you mean by "prove" :P </definition nazi>

If by proved you mean it's shown correct with absolute certainty, then you're right. However, based on empirical evidence, the most reasonable position to take is to assume the theory of evolution is true, because it's most likely true.

Yes, its an educated guess. But you can't by any means say that it has been proven. There are still uncertainties in the argument like the missing link.

At 8/14/08 11:23 AM, Paranoia wrote:

At 8/14/08 08:47 AM, CybexALT wrote: Agnostism is the way forth!

That's the lack of constructive argument I was talking about :P

I mean, think about it. Where would we be today if historical pioneers had just gone, "Meh, there's no way of knowing whether the Earth is round/there's more than one continent/we'll be able to immunise people against smallpox, so let's just ignore the issue and watch TV". You don't just go through life ignoring issues because there's a hint that the argument might not be 100% one-sided.

Thats not what I meant at all. You don't have to have an opinion on something in order to advance in it. I'm just saying that there's no point trying to decide whether there is or isn't a God when no one has any idea about it. It's be great if we have any scientific advances on the existance of God, and maybe one day we will, but until then i think it's way more constructive to have an open mind on the matter.

Pioneers didn't discover things because they were close minded and made up their minds on something before they had any evidence.

At 8/14/08 10:00 AM, CybexALT wrote: Oh, well then i used the wrong words. Every definition of atheism I've found says its a belief that there is no God, though. This does not define me, and so I am not an atheist. Maybe agnostic wasn't the best way to describe what I was meaning though. All i meant was that I have no religious beliefs.

Those definitions don't know shit :/ Atheism is just a lack of belief. It doesn't make sense to say that belief isn't valid evidence in support of a point of view (which most if not all Atheists would agree with), and then actively apply it towards negative existence. That's just silly.

k.

At 8/14/08 10:35 AM, CybexALT wrote: To be fair, it hasn't been proved, and is just a guess. The argument for evolution is very strong, and is accepted in science, but you can't go as far as to say it's been proven.

Evolution is an observed fact - you can see it happening in tonnes of organisms. Nobody can seriously dispute that genes mutate, occasionally in an advantageous way, and if such is the case then such genes prosper over their less successful friends.

Just because something has the potential to have happened, it doesn't necessarily mean thats what did happen. I'm not saying I don't believe in evolution, because I do. I'm just saying it is a theory.

The 'Theory of Evolution' is generally taken to mean the theory describing how evolution leads to new species, and the variety of life we see today (and even that's at least as reliable as what you might call the 'Theory of Gravity').

Its not as reliable as that. The effects of gravity are observed every day. No one has ever observed evolution. We have observed mutations, and we have observed how natural selection can alter certain aspects of a species, but evolution is a mixture of the two which no ones has ever seen. We can only guess that that is what has occured.

At 8/14/08 11:48 AM, GustTheASGuy wrote: When you start to discuss such things too much I feel I have to provide my opinion so everybody could agree to it and shut up.

Why don't you go do that in the 100 page long threads on the politics forum?

cybex:
A philosophic theory is an idea that someone had that needs to be tested. A scientific theory is an already tested and proved set of facts that lead to a certain conclusion. Creationists love to argue that evolution is "just" a theory as if it was a philosophical theory - but it's not.

Also it seems like you're taking this with a way too simple approach. It's not like there's no empirical evidence for god so we just ignore the question and move on, because billions of people in the world are religious. There's mountains of arguments about this subject, maybe it would clear your thoughts to read some books about it. ("God delusion" by richard dawkins is nice). well you're probably not gonna read those books because it's boring :P

At 8/14/08 11:48 AM, CybexALT wrote:

At 8/14/08 10:41 AM, Toast wrote: <definition nazi> it all depends what you mean by "prove" :P </definition nazi>

If by proved you mean it's shown correct with absolute certainty, then you're right. However, based on empirical evidence, the most reasonable position to take is to assume the theory of evolution is true, because it's most likely true.

Yes, its an educated guess. But you can't by any means say that it has been proven. There are still uncertainties in the argument like the missing link.

Well the whole of science is built on theories, you can't prove anything with 100% certainty since there might be variables you're not aware of.
We get as close as we can to certainty and we have to draw the line somewhere and say it has been proven at some point.

At 8/14/08 11:48 AM, CybexALT wrote: Thats not what I meant at all. You don't have to have an opinion on something in order to advance in it. I'm just saying that there's no point trying to decide whether there is or isn't a God when no one has any idea about it. It's be great if we have any scientific advances on the existance of God, and maybe one day we will, but until then i think it's way more constructive to have an open mind on the matter.

Not really. We have as much reason to believe that Santa Claus exists as we do to believe that some god or other does. More actually - as far as I'm aware Santa never contradicted his own existance.

Pioneers didn't discover things because they were close minded and made up their minds on something before they had any evidence.

At 8/14/08 10:00 AM, CybexALT wrote

Just because something has the potential to have happened, it doesn't necessarily mean thats what did happen. I'm not saying I don't believe in evolution, because I do. I'm just saying it is a theory.

Of course something having the potential to have happened doesn't mean it has, but evolution goes beyond potential, but over the time that life on Earth has existed, and given what we know about Biology, it's not a matter of whether life happened. It definitely, definitely did. You may as well argue that people a hundered years ago might not have breathed oxygen ("Just because they have the potential to inhale, doesn't mean that they did").

The 'Theory of Evolution' is generally taken to mean the theory describing how evolution leads to new species, and the variety of life we see today (and even that's at least as reliable as what you might call the 'Theory of Gravity').

Its not as reliable as that. The effects of gravity are observed every day. No one has ever observed evolution. We have observed mutations, and we have observed how natural selection can alter certain aspects of a species, but evolution is a mixture of the two which no ones has ever seen. We can only guess that that is what has occured.

You're ignoring the enormous piles of fossil, genetic, cellular, biological, and observed evidence here.

Besides, arguing about evolution is irrelevant. It's not like if our understanding of it were proved false, that would automatically mean that all religions were any more likely to be correct (or at least one of them :/). Not even close. It'd just mean that we were lacking an explaination for the origins of species.

At 8/14/08 11:59 AM, Toast wrote: cybex:
A philosophic theory is an idea that someone had that needs to be tested. A scientific theory is an already tested and proved set of facts that lead to a certain conclusion. Creationists love to argue that evolution is "just" a theory as if it was a philosophical theory - but it's not.

A scientific theory is a well tested hypothesis, but not proved. But yeah, its more than just an idea. But yeah, maybe its all getting a bit pedantic now. The only reason I bought it up ages ago was because you said it's not 'just a theory', when it is a theory, but a theory with lots of evidence suggesting its true.

At 8/14/08 12:10 PM, Paranoia wrote:

At 8/14/08 11:48 AM, CybexALT wrote: Thats not what I meant at all. You don't have to have an opinion on something in order to advance in it. I'm just saying that there's no point trying to decide whether there is or isn't a God when no one has any idea about it. It's be great if we have any scientific advances on the existance of God, and maybe one day we will, but until then i think it's way more constructive to have an open mind on the matter.

Not really. We have as much reason to believe that Santa Claus exists as we do to believe that some god or other does. More actually - as far as I'm aware Santa never contradicted his own existance.

How has God contradicted his own existance? Maybe the bible has contradicted itself, but the bible and God aren't the same thing. If I said "Paranoia is big, but he's also small", that doesn't mean you're contradicting yourself, just means I'm wrong.

Anyway, what does your response have to do with what I said?

At 8/14/08 10:00 AM, CybexALT wrote

Just because something has the potential to have happened, it doesn't necessarily mean thats what did happen. I'm not saying I don't believe in evolution, because I do. I'm just saying it is a theory.

Of course something having the potential to have happened doesn't mean it has, but evolution goes beyond potential, but over the time that life on Earth has existed, and given what we know about Biology, it's not a matter of whether life happened. It definitely, definitely did. You may as well argue that people a hundered years ago might not have breathed oxygen ("Just because they have the potential to inhale, doesn't mean that they did").

I wasn't using that to try and disprove evolution. It just seemed in the last post that you were trying to use the facet that there was potential as an argument for evolution. I do believe in evolution, just saying it's a theory, and the evidence isn't 100% conclusive.

Its not as reliable as that. The effects of gravity are observed every day. No one has ever observed evolution. We have observed mutations, and we have observed how natural selection can alter certain aspects of a species, but evolution is a mixture of the two which no ones has ever seen. We can only guess that that is what has occured.

You're ignoring the enormous piles of fossil, genetic, cellular, biological, and observed evidence here.

I'm not ignoring that stuff. Just saying that I would say the theory of gravity is more conclusive than the theory of evolution.

At 8/14/08 12:10 PM, Paranoia wrote: Besides, arguing about evolution is irrelevant. It's not like if our understanding of it were proved false, that would automatically mean that all religions were any more likely to be correct (or at least one of them :/). Not even close. It'd just mean that we were lacking an explaination for the origins of species.

Well, not really, because the religious have the 'ultimate' reasons for everything. They can just pull out the 'GOD PUT THAT THERE TO TRICK YOU ALL!' How do you argue with that? All they have to say is 'God did it.' and you lose all ability to argue, because you can't just be like, 'Nooooo!'

At 8/14/08 12:38 PM, CybexALT wrote: A scientific theory is a well tested hypothesis, but not proved. But yeah, its more than just an idea. But yeah, maybe its all getting a bit pedantic now. The only reason I bought it up ages ago was because you said it's not 'just a theory', when it is a theory, but a theory with lots of evidence suggesting its true.

It's in response to people who take the word 'theory' in 'theory of evolution' as a philosophic theory which is false. How can you disagree with me there? I'm not saying evolution is not a theory, but it's not "just a theory that we shouldn't pay attention to". yeah, maybe you should go jump from a roof and not pay attention to gravity.

How has God contradicted his own existance?

have you ever read two or more sentences from the bible?

At 8/14/08 12:48 PM, Toast wrote:

At 8/14/08 12:38 PM, CybexALT wrote: A scientific theory is a well tested hypothesis, but not proved. But yeah, its more than just an idea. But yeah, maybe its all getting a bit pedantic now. The only reason I bought it up ages ago was because you said it's not 'just a theory', when it is a theory, but a theory with lots of evidence suggesting its true.

It's in response to people who take the word 'theory' in 'theory of evolution' as a philosophic theory which is false. How can you disagree with me there? I'm not saying evolution is not a theory, but it's not "just a theory that we shouldn't pay attention to". yeah, maybe you should go jump from a roof and not pay attention to gravity.

I'm not disagreeng with you!

How has God contradicted his own existance?

have you ever read two or more sentences from the bible?

We're talking about God here, not Christianity. I thought you had already established religion was just made up by people who want a way to control their peasants. Just because some guy wrote a book which contradicts itself, you can't say that there can never be any sort of God because he contradicts his own existance.

If I wrote a book about you which contradicts itself, would that mean that you are contradicting yourself?

Also, out of interest, i haven't read much of the bible, so could anyone show me some passages which contradict each other?

you guys post too much shutup for a change! i mean if your talking good conversation or whatever then fine but please just dont spam it or whatever. im gone for 1 day and i have to read back 3 pages. im not even gonna do that. somebody tell me what i missed.

At 8/14/08 12:13 AM, El-Presidente wrote: What amazes you?
I don't mean, what do you find kind of cool, I mean, what makes your jaw drop and you just sit there in awe for minutes, wishing that you had this skill, or could be part of whatever you're seeing.

I think my choice would be beat boxing firstly, just because, it's really amazing what some people can do with it. It's like, you don't need to pay, but you can play music wherever you go. It's a drum-set in your MOUF!

Beat boxing is awesome i agree =]. Here is a bboy friend of mine beat boxing in
a break dance event..Crazy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIGRNMoc2 cc watch the whole thing...

Also, even MORE awe-inspiring to me is break dancing. It's unbelievable the positions and crazy shit people can pull off when they break dance. That's the same type of thing, because no matter where you can go, you can do these crazy tricks and enjoy yourself, although it may be more fun to watch. I actually plan on joining the break dancing group when I go to college, just as one of those cool things you've always wanted to do! Patu, I give a lot of props for what you do there....

What's your awe inspiring, jaw dropping dream?

Thank you =]. maybe if you talked to me before you came to Israel like you said you will i could have teached you the basics.. Well although that i can break dance there are stuff in break dance that still amazes me like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IQkoK9T6 oE
and really good smooth animation..

religion talk
stop it it's boring...i think i prefer spam lol

At 8/14/08 01:07 PM, Goonie wrote: Is anyone prepared making a clockcrew flash tomorrow? I was searching for a flash collab but so far there are none. :(

clockcrew's gone down every year. People are growing out of it.. andthe new members are just kids who have no affiliation to flash.. they just heard from a friend they could pick a cool vegetable and be a clock and thats the only reason they are one.

I forsee the group totally disappearing by 2010.

At 8/14/08 01:23 PM, zrb wrote: Don't you think totally diseappearing is a little strong, I mean sure they are fading away but that seems a little too soon.

I never did really like the CC, I mean sure it was better than other groups, but it was still spam.

At 8/14/08 12:13 AM, El-Presidente wrote: What amazes you?
I don't mean, what do you find kind of cool, I mean, what makes your jaw drop and you just sit there in awe for minutes, wishing that you had this skill, or could be part of whatever you're seeing.

Shadow of the Collosus.

*Mental Orgy Starts Now... Where you at?*

Skill related? Learn trig, easier =/...

What's your awe inspiring, jaw dropping dream?

Programming, but I want to be sweet w/ engineering also, don't really have a reason, but tricking out my own car (when I'm older) w/ a futuristic look and ParagonX9's music would be sweet as hell.

At 8/14/08 01:54 AM, zrb wrote:

At 8/14/08 01:33 AM, ConAir wrote: HELL YEAH!!!

I second that.

You seconded his second? Then I'll second you seconding of his second of Luis' idea!

For the lulz?

At 8/14/08 01:00 PM, CybexALT wrote:

At 8/14/08 12:48 PM, Toast wrote:

At 8/14/08 12:38 PM, CybexALT wrote: How has God contradicted his own existance?

have you ever read two or more sentences from the bible?

We're talking about God here, not Christianity.

You're not helping, Toast.

I was talking about philosophical contradictions, like the impossiblity of omnipotence and omniscience existing alongside each other, not to mention the whole issue of evil (which, to be fair, would just disprove the existence of a nice god).

Besides, you skated over my point. I couldn't care less whether the idea of a god is self-contradictory. Like any number of imagined entities (Santa, fairies, flying teacups, blah), the fact that they're not completely disprovable we should give serious credibility to them, never mind implying a 50/50 split in the odds of their existance.

Fuck you guys post a lot. Anyways I'm too cool/busy to be here often. I got madden 09 and I've been playing that so add my GT if you got it as well.

GT: AniMoney

At 8/14/08 05:22 PM, Goonie wrote: Sadly. This is becoming true. Future generation users are changing the web dramatically. Sometimes, I feel it becomes worse as time goes by. I miss the old school newgrounds so much. :*(

I agree. Even just 3 years ago this place was much better. Much more old time regs are leaving because of the crazy amount of retards, and that unbalances the retard:reg population. It's a vicious circle. We'll keep spiralling down, though, since we have respectable admins, we won't ever reach a low level like 4chan. One thing is for sure though, I'm not leaving.

I'll be bored otherwise D=

Unfortunately your comparison doesn't really work because you can actually test scientific theories at home. Science attempts to explain how things work, I don't see how it can be a means to control people. I see your point though - if people 2000 years ago couldn't know that religion was a lie, how can we know that science is not a lie? It's a fun thought but I don't think it will lead you anywhere :P

Cave Story
A nice little freeware game. It's a 2D platformer, shooter. It's really awesome and you should all play it :D link link

sorry I misread :( I should go to sleep.

good night guys

i love u

Dear god, i started a flame war. Lets all get along :P.

At 8/14/08 05:22 PM, Goonie wrote: Sadly. This is becoming true. Future generation users are changing the web dramatically. Sometimes, I feel it becomes worse as time goes by. I miss the old school newgrounds so much. :*(

Your not exactly an old reg, people come to newgrounds now and find flash more, rather than finding flash and coming to newgrounds. It's not a bad thing, it just means people aren't as in tune with old traditions.

Favorite Old School Game
I was sorting threw some of my old game systems when I happened across Kirby. I booted it up and ended up playing it for about 8 straight hours. Are there any Old School games you guys still play, or at least think could stand their own against today's games?

At 8/14/08 06:58 PM, FloppyDiskClock wrote: Luis loves the cockcrew

At 8/14/08 07:23 PM, Depredation wrote: Your not exactly an old reg,

Sorry, i take that back, i was just referring to your post count :(.

The mullet gets cut tomorrow. Take a moment today to give thanks and respect to it's 5 and a half year run.

Good day gentlemen.

At 8/14/08 08:42 PM, TheCriminalDuder wrote: The mullet gets cut tomorrow. Take a moment today to give thanks and respect to it's 5 and a half year run.

Can I keep it?

At 8/14/08 08:42 PM, TheCriminalDuder wrote: The mullet gets cut tomorrow. Take a moment today to give thanks and respect to it's 5 and a half year run.

Good day gentlemen.

Moment of silence....

At 8/14/08 08:42 PM, TheCriminalDuder wrote: The mullet gets cut tomorrow. Take a moment today to give thanks and respect to it's 5 and a half year run.

Good day gentlemen and women.

I shall light a candle in remembrance ...and by candle, I mean bong.

At 8/14/08 07:04 PM, Kanadian-Keith wrote: its okay, ill let the drugs Blackfang sold you escape your body :)

XD what?!