At 7/10/08 12:49 AM, NG-Unit wrote: Hmmm, whats in it for me?

Love?

At 7/10/08 12:52 AM, kid-dude wrote:

At 7/10/08 12:49 AM, NG-Unit wrote: Hmmm, whats in it for me?

Love?

Pfft not worth it...On that note...

What'd I do?

For some reason the thing that says what the link is when you scroll over the link isn't there. Anyone wanna tell me how to bring it back? If I had it I could've expected that rick roll and I wouldn't of gotten rick rolled a second ago

Diverting back slightly to a previously metioned topic; whats the most you've ever been commissioned to make a flash game/movie for?

ps. I feel for you zrb :)

At 7/10/08 12:57 AM, kid-dude wrote: Diverting back slightly to a previously metioned topic; whats the most you've ever been commissioned to make a flash game/movie for?

Umm...Nothing, I just make flashes for fun, I don't expect money. My flashes suck too much to get money from :D

At 7/10/08 12:53 AM, zrb wrote: I think I'm the only 3 lettered reg :O

Exactly

Ok, I'm gonna stop posting every other post now, I'm turning back into the old me

At 7/10/08 12:57 AM, kid-dude wrote: Diverting back slightly to a previously metioned topic; whats the most you've ever been commissioned to make a flash game/movie for?

ps. I feel for you zrb :)

Uhm, normally do it for fun ;D but why not get some money while you're having fun? Gained $550 two years ago on a flash contest at flashportal.com, won third place. >_< Or fourth, can't remember... Money was split in two though.

With Medieval Defense...

Haven't made much stuff since then.

At 7/10/08 01:02 AM, Blaze wrote: Uhm, normally do it for fun ;D but why not get some money while you're having fun? Gained $550 two years ago on a flash contest at flashportal.com, won third place. >_< Or fourth, can't remember...

Or when each person made twenty dollars apiece on the very late xmas game collab? That thing kinda...failed. <_<

At 7/10/08 01:22 AM, Masterswordman wrote:

At 7/10/08 01:02 AM, Blaze wrote: Uhm, normally do it for fun ;D but why not get some money while you're having fun? Gained $550 two years ago on a flash contest at flashportal.com, won third place. >_< Or fourth, can't remember...

Or when each person made twenty dollars apiece on the very late xmas game collab? That thing kinda...failed. <_<

haha, yeah. That thing failed xD it was way late, and we lost most of the good work. :( Hell, i couldn't even finish the piece and my comp exploted on me few days before submitting! :D

At 7/10/08 12:53 AM, zrb wrote: I think I'm the only 3 lettered reg :O

THATS HOW I REMEMBER YOU! *hug*

At 7/10/08 01:36 AM, Duchednier wrote: THATS HOW I REMEMBER YOU! *hug*

So hes my 3 lettered reg!

I'm glad your leaving for 6 weeks, more alone time for me and zrb :D

Heh

zrbs mine bitch >=C

Why cant i be favorite 3rd lettered reg?

oh wai-

Ng Collabs.

Following up on what Rusty said in his topic, and what Kirk said inside the thread, I say we start linking people who aren't qualified to make a collab to Ng Collabs again.

At 7/10/08 12:11 AM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote: so I stated $60000 for 10 games and $120000 for 20.

I think that's an extremely greedy estimate. I assume you were just trying to get rid of them. They'd be better off hiring a real full time developer for an entire year then to bother paying you that kind of money. And they'd get the source.

Another thing about "under-age" development while I'm here:

People who get sponsorships think they don't have to pay tax. Well you do. Being young doesn't exempt you, and low earnings doesn't exempt you from having to declare them. It doesn't matter if you're formerly employed or not either. YOU HAVE TO PAY TAX ON ANY MONEY YOU GET.
I have spoken to countless people who have been sponsored who don't think they have to pay tax. You do. Please contact an accountancy agency if you aren't sure. When I was 15 I hired my accountant, set up as a sole trader business and started declaring my income. It wasn't a choice, it was the law.

And about the signing of contracts: I don't think an under 18 can legally do so. There may be away around using parental consent, but you'll have to contact a law professional about that.

Link to the topic?

And oh yeah.. I didn't even notice... Level up :3

At 7/10/08 04:38 AM, UnknownFury wrote: And oh yeah.. I didn't even notice... Level up :3

I liked your previous level icon much more..

At 7/10/08 04:34 AM, Rustygames wrote:

At 7/10/08 12:11 AM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote: so I stated $60000 for 10 games and $120000 for 20.

I think that's an extremely greedy estimate. I assume you were just trying to get rid of them. They'd be better off hiring a real full time developer for an entire year then to bother paying you that kind of money. And they'd get the source.

Well them getting the source was part of the deal. Hiring a full time developer is only a better move if they actually need a full time developer. It's better to pay twice the salary for one year of work versus half as much, but having to keep a developer on payroll until he/she gets old and dies.

As for the quote, it's really too vague to make a reasonable estimate given the description provided. Do they want tic tac toe and pong, or 10 MMORPG/RTS/FPS games? It's best to pick an hourly rate and project the amount of time it'd take to write 10 games of the caliber they want. Don't even bother giving a quote until you feel completely comfortable and well informed about the project specs.

For instance, say they want games that would take you about 5 weeks to complete at 40 hours a week. If your hourly rate was $30, then that's $30 * 5weeks * 40hours * 10games = 60,000, which is roughly a teacher's salary here (who are generally considered to be poorly paid) for an entire year's worth of work (50 weeks, 3 months longer than a teacher works). $30 is a reasonable estimate for someone who's "starting out", though it varies by individual. My first "contract work" or whatever, which this essentially is, was at $35/hr. So in the case I just mentioned, that doesn't seem at all greedy to me. It does depend on the size of the game, though.

This may come as a surprise, but companies make a lot of money. In fact, that's the whole reason a company exists. As well, they wouldn't be contacting people for work if they could do it themselves. Depending on the size of the company (which is important to consider!), $60,000 just might be an insignificant drop in the bucket. You have to abandon the moral high road and just go for the jugular when you're in these situations. On top of that, keeping yourself motivated for the duration of the project is in the interest of both you and the people you're working for. For a company that has a clue, quoting too low can cost you more work than quoting too high.

Anyway, I'm not really THAT experienced with this stuff, so take all this with a grain of salt--but don't make yourselves suckers. You're programmers/artists/whatever, not ditch diggers or crossing guards.

At 7/10/08 05:55 AM, DougyTheFreshmaker wrote:

Anyway, I'm not really THAT experienced with this stuff, so take all this with a grain of salt--but don't make yourselves suckers. You're programmers/artists/whatever, not ditch diggers or crossing guards.

Well I am experience with this, and $60k for 10 "simple" games is a lot. If it really did take 5 full time weeks per game, then it's about right because that would be a yearly wage. But it did not sound to me like that was the offer being made.

The average yearly wage of a Flash Developer in the UK is £30k ($60k). I think it's similar in the US. So if I were the company, I wouldn't be hiring some little kid who is still in school to do this for me, I'd be looking for a professional.

At 7/10/08 04:15 AM, UnknownFury wrote: Ng Collabs.

What happened to the 'NG Flash Regs Collab'? That was fun as. Did it die off?

At 7/10/08 07:03 AM, Penboy wrote:

At 7/10/08 04:15 AM, UnknownFury wrote: Ng Collabs.

What happened to the 'NG Flash Regs Collab'? That was fun as. Did it die off?

Even though we all had high BA's, we weren't allowed to make a collab because it was a spoof of collabs. (Plus the mod who locked it wasn't in on the joke).

At 7/10/08 07:03 AM, Penboy wrote:

At 7/10/08 04:15 AM, UnknownFury wrote: Ng Collabs.

What happened to the 'NG Flash Regs Collab'? That was fun as. Did it die off?

You mean the one Jmtb was running? Yeah, that started off slowly and then seemed to fizzle out altogether.

At 7/10/08 10:29 AM, DarkMana wrote: RE: The Dark Night

I'm excited; it looks great.
Don't get Paranoia started, though. :x

I'm cautiously optimistic... Hopefully they'll give the main villain (RIP) some decent screen-time in this one. They completely wasted an awesome baddie with Scarecrow in the last one.

Arsing Zone Alarm

Anyone else get knocked off from the internet today/yesterday? I had to find a bloody news story on it through my PS3 browser before I knew what the hell was going on :(

At 7/10/08 04:34 AM, Rustygames wrote:

At 7/10/08 12:11 AM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote: so I stated $60000 for 10 games and $120000 for 20.

I think that's an extremely greedy estimate. I assume you were just trying to get rid of them. They'd be better off hiring a real full time developer for an entire year then to bother paying you that kind of money. And they'd get the source.

That was the point. I didn't have the time to make that many games at the time, although If I was getting paid a ridiculous amount then I could probably have fit it in.

I wanted to get rid of them, but by the off chance that they go for it then it's a win-win for me.

Another thing about "under-age" development while I'm here:

I'm not underage anymore, I'm 18, but I've always had to pay taxes on everything I made online.

At 7/10/08 06:00 AM, Rustygames wrote:

At 7/10/08 05:55 AM, DougyTheFreshmaker wrote:

Anyway, I'm not really THAT experienced with this stuff, so take all this with a grain of salt--but don't make yourselves suckers. You're programmers/artists/whatever, not ditch diggers or crossing guards.

Well I am experience with this, and $60k for 10 "simple" games is a lot. If it really did take 5 full time weeks per game, then it's about right because that would be a yearly wage. But it did not sound to me like that was the offer being made.

sional.

My point wasn't that 60k is reasonable, it's that if you get an offer you're not interested in, quote REALLY REALLY high. You either scare them off (win for you) or get hired and make a ton of money (win).

I'm sure most of you have got offers for people asking for exclusive licensing of your fla's. Rather than saying "Sorry, my FLAs are not for sale" which I'm guessing many of you do for moral reasons, it's better to say "I'll sell for 20k/FLA". It's the same thing. Only if they accept the offer, then you just make $20k.

On the contrary. I'd be more then happy to sell a source file for just a couple of K

At 7/10/08 06:00 AM, Rustygames wrote: The average yearly wage of a Flash Developer in the UK is £30k ($60k). I think it's similar in the US. So if I were the company, I wouldn't be hiring some little kid who is still in school to do this for me, I'd be looking for a professional.

I might also point out that a company does not know how old someone is by simply looking at their work. They look at the quality of the work they make, and if it's good quality, they'll contact the developer.

These companies aren't worried about the age of their developers, as long as they're old enough to sign a contract. Doesn't mean they'll go out of their way to confirm someone's age before they send them a simple email request. Maybe they thought i was a professional based on the number of games I had on my site? Stranger things have happened.

I'm also not "some little kid still in school" anymore. I graduated this year, I turned 18, I'm moving into an apartment in a few weeks and start college a few weeks after that. I was some little kid still in school a few years ago when i was more active with my games, yes, but you know, time does pass for people.

At 7/10/08 01:49 AM, Blackfang wrote: zrbs mine bitch >=C

Why cant i be favorite 3rd lettered reg?

oh wai-

Can i be your favorite... um....*counts* ten lettered reg? =D

See you in 6 (?) weeks or so :)

I'm leaving tomorrow morning, however i work tonight and then i'm going to the Hellboy 2 screening (at midnight for employees only :D) so i wont be on much, i'll try to write one last time at like 4 in the morning though :D

At 7/10/08 12:25 PM, Glaiel-Gamer wrote: Stuff

By little kid, I mean someone who is not yet in the industry. As in, no experience other then what they've done in their spare time. Don't get me wrong, the skill set is there, there is more to it then just coding :).

Also, no serious company would use the internet as a way of finding a developer, there is just too many cowboys and fools on here for it to be viable.

Out of interest, what was the company called?

At 7/10/08 12:30 PM, citricsquid wrote:

At 7/10/08 12:01 PM, Paranoia wrote: Arsing Zone Alarm

Anyone else get knocked off from the internet today/yesterday? I had to find a bloody news story on it through my PS3 browser before I knew what the hell was going on :(

someone posted in wi/ht before it happened, looks like nobody saw :(

What happen?

At 7/10/08 12:34 PM, Wurmy1029 wrote:

At 7/10/08 12:30 PM, citricsquid wrote:

At 7/10/08 12:01 PM, Paranoia wrote: Arsing Zone Alarm

Anyone else get knocked off from the internet today/yesterday? I had to find a bloody news story on it through my PS3 browser before I knew what the hell was going on :(

someone posted in wi/ht before it happened, looks like nobody saw :(

What happen?

Basically the last Windows update completely screwed with Zone Alarm's high security settings, so a ridiculous number of people lost all internet access (and probably still have, if nobody's told them what's happening).

Full story

Anyone fill me in on anything that has happened while i was away the last week? (Not that i told any of you ;) )