I just made a design for Gutya's site... just want some feedback.

http://www.gutya.net/upload/947/gutya.pn g

ehh.. don't mind the news post

I'll provide today's Flash-related controversy/drama.

Totem Destroyer - http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/44 7836
Destined to be overrated. Already being hailed for its physics (Free use engine not programmed by the author), creative concept (anyone played BoomBlox?), and probably its theme/mood (anyone played... BoomBlox?).
But what's your take? Is the game good for putting a physics engine to work and applying Spielberg's creative thinking in the Flash world, or is it another Portal: Flash Version minus the honesty of naming it the same thing?

At 7/7/08 08:42 PM, NegativeONE wrote: I'll provide today's Flash-related controversy/drama.

Totem Destroyer - http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/44 7836
Destined to be overrated. Already being hailed for its physics (Free use engine not programmed by the author), creative concept (anyone played BoomBlox?), and probably its theme/mood (anyone played... BoomBlox?).
But what's your take? Is the game good for putting a physics engine to work and applying Spielberg's creative thinking in the Flash world, or is it another Portal: Flash Version minus the honesty of naming it the same thing?

Some credit for the idea and the presentation, loses points with me because of the use of an open-source engine, but lots of games do that these days.

At 7/7/08 08:42 PM, NegativeONE wrote: I'll provide today's Flash-related controversy/drama.

Totem Destroyer - http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/44 7836
Destined to be overrated. Already being hailed for its physics (Free use engine not programmed by the author), creative concept (anyone played BoomBlox?), and probably its theme/mood (anyone played... BoomBlox?).
But what's your take? Is the game good for putting a physics engine to work and applying Spielberg's creative thinking in the Flash world, or is it another Portal: Flash Version minus the honesty of naming it the same thing?

The concept of keeping the totem up is a neat idea. I haven't played BoomBlox and only know of the concept and some details, so I can't compare them really. It did put the engine to good use though. Is it worth the score it has considering it put some simplistic graphics on someone elses engine though? Apparently so if people think it's that fun.

At 7/7/08 09:36 PM, CrazyChihuahua wrote: Is it worth the score it has considering it put some simplistic graphics on someone elses engine though? Apparently so if people think it's that fun.

Well, that's the eternal debate, innit? Is it good because people said so, or is that the kind of notion that requires at least some kind of backing? A clever and funny animation on youtube would lose the spotlight to a camgirl in a heartbeat. Is a video of her talking about her day in a bikini top better? As much as I love tits, no. Maybe this metaphor is a bit of a reacharound, but what I'm trying to say is that voting on NG is pretty impulsive, and I think the score would look a bit different if people were actively aware that the author didn't program the physics, or if BoomBlox weren't such a diamond in the rough, because credit for the most braggable parts of the game belong elsewhere.

At 7/7/08 09:50 PM, NegativeONE wrote: because credit for the most braggable parts of the game belong elsewhere.

Yeah, hard to feel good about spreading around something that's so heavily referenced, hopefully the success will lead the artist to branch out on his own two legs for future projects. I know my first stuff was pretty lame and referenced in efforts to get my feet under me with the flash tools (doesn't seem like this guy is just learning flash though).

The debate of "what is art?" is a huge can of worms and often boils down to each person's personal philosophy. There's no moral solid ground these days, but I know I would feel shady about what that guy has done.

Sorry you guys, I'm not leaving until later in the week. I know you were all looking forward to seeing me leave...

Another bad thing...I found out I'm gonna have interwebz there, but don't be worried, I probably won't use it too much

These days it seems Flash is less about originality and more about creating quick, adictive, fun and most importantly GAMES THAT MAKE MONEY.

It may be sad to some people but that is the way the flash 'scene' has progressed, and it will keep going that way. It's all about traffic and profit now and if someone uses pre-existing ideas and open-source code they stand a bigger chance at making that money than if they release an experimental idea

At 7/7/08 09:50 PM, NegativeONE wrote:

At 7/7/08 09:36 PM, CrazyChihuahua wrote: Is it worth the score it has considering it put some simplistic graphics on someone elses engine though? Apparently so if people think it's that fun.

Well, that's the eternal debate, innit? Is it good because people said so, or is that the kind of notion that requires at least some kind of backing? A clever and funny animation on youtube would lose the spotlight to a camgirl in a heartbeat. Is a video of her talking about her day in a bikini top better? As much as I love tits, no. Maybe this metaphor is a bit of a reacharound, but what I'm trying to say is that voting on NG is pretty impulsive, and I think the score would look a bit different if people were actively aware that the author didn't program the physics, or if BoomBlox weren't such a diamond in the rough, because credit for the most braggable parts of the game belong elsewhere.

I guess that can lead to quite a debate. I agree though, ordinary viewers don't care about the work that went in to something, they care about what they find interesting at the time, which most often would be the bikini-top chick over a well-done animation, especially on Youtube. And you're right, one is clearly better. Although, saying that is debatable itself as everything is one persons opinion.

As for the constant spew of crap we've seen before in Flash, ya, it seems to be going that way. Another hugely annoying thing is ads. Most games won't get the clicks to warrant a decent amount of money I'd imagine, and I see enough of that crap everywhere else. I don't want to have to wait 10 seconds looking at some Adventure Quest crap just to play a bad game.

At 7/7/08 10:22 PM, NG-Unit wrote: Sorry you guys, I'm not leaving until later in the week. I know you were all looking forward to seeing me leave...

Aww man... and here i had this goodbye speech all prepared and everything...

D=

I think the score would look a bit different if people were actively aware that the author didn't program the physics

Do you? Really?

I'm thinking most people just want to play a fun game and don't really give a shit how much trouble the author had making it. And on that note, I don't think a developer should "lose points" for using external libraries. Why sit around reprogramming the same physics engine in order to make the game? I mean, why not punish them for using the standard AS library and Adobe's Flash Player? They need to go and make their OWN plugins and language, market it to a reasonable penetration, make a physics engine, and THEN make a stupid 'idol/block' game... using Flash is like CHEATING, right?

Use what's out there. Spend the time you saved by using another physics engine to improve other aspects of the game (or expand on the physics engine, whatever). Incorporate the current state of the art and build upon that. The reason this game is successful is because people don't do that.

And just as a quick clarification, I'm not saying you HAVE to incorporate these sorts of libraries to produce a good game, just that there's no sense in wasting time rewriting them if your spec requires them.

Having said that, I do think that the game is a little bit of a cheap trick in the sense that it's essentially just a physics engine demo with one tiny gameplay mechanic ('dont let the idol hit the grass'), and supposedly (never played boomblox) a clone of someone else's idea. Plagiarism is inexcusable, but the fact that a simple mechanic like this does so well is probably a fault of the generally-poor material that the community produces. If games that use libraries are snubbed in general, then the one or two dudes who take advantage of the are going to come out on top more often than not.

This game, though, belongs in a Ludum Dare, not a top 10 chart. Click rectangles until you fall asleep? Nice. I bet my 80 year old grandmother with arthritis would like it, but I'll pass. I think it sucks that a game like this can do so well. In the face of better competition, I think it'd disappear into the masses. As it stands, even with all the mess I've been talking, I'd rather play this than another mouse avoider.

At 7/7/08 11:05 PM, Duchednier wrote: Aww man... and here i had this goodbye speech all prepared and everything...

D=

Haha a goodbye speech cuz I'm leaving for a week?

I don't like the whole "using a full premade physics engine to make a game" scenario unless it was made by the developer. I saw a few games go through the portal recently that used the APE engine, down to basically plotting a few levels and adding a single hitTest to create a game. 3.8-4.0 for that one.

At 7/7/08 10:22 PM, NG-Unit wrote: Sorry you guys, I'm not leaving until later in the week. I know you were all looking forward to seeing me leave...

Another bad thing...I found out I'm gonna have interwebz there, but don't be worried, I probably won't use it too much

>:(
Stop begging for the attention, bitch. It's either you're leaving or not.

From now on, if anyone says "omg im leaving for a week but coming back" jawn -- you are banned.."

Wait. Fuck. I don't have mod powers. Oh wellz.

Can someone please give me the PROPER action script code for going to a scene and playing it. I'm on my flashes menu, And I want it to go to scene 2, frame one (No special names for scene or frame, Just basic) but all the codes don't work when I preview the movie.

Can someone please give me the right one.
I know you guys have a good knowledge.

At 7/8/08 12:26 AM, Rudy wrote: Wait. Fuck. I don't have mod powers. Oh wellz.

Oh, but I do, anyone saying I'm getting banned, is gonna get banned.

Hm, lot of good input on the open source thing here. Despite some differing opinions on the fine details, I think we've all agreed that a 4.45 / 5.0 is a bit misplaced. As I think about it, and hearing the opinions of you guys, I guess I'm not really against the use of open source Flash engines. It's just really bothersome when it's the whole game. I mean a really deep Flash platformer where the engine is used to displace crates and other interactive level content would be fine, because it would be part of what was obviously an elaborate project comprised mainly of the author's own code.

At 7/7/08 11:39 PM, jmtb02 wrote: I don't like the whole "using a full premade physics engine to make a game" scenario unless it was made by the developer. I saw a few games go through the portal recently that used the APE engine, down to basically plotting a few levels and adding a single hitTest to create a game. 3.8-4.0 for that one.

Like the ragdoll cannon game. Sure it's an alright idea, it was pretty fun, but man it got so much attention for apparently so little effort from the maker...it also annoyed me he wrote his name all over the game, and had an easy to fix bug. And I'm pretty sure he banked off of it. But like john said, if there are any more games that comes through the portal with raving elephants, I'm going to get really annoyed.

wait I mean premade engines...

At 7/8/08 12:34 AM, NG-Unit wrote:

At 7/8/08 12:26 AM, Rudy wrote: Wait. Fuck. I don't have mod powers. Oh wellz.

Oh, but I do, anyone saying I'm getting banned, is gonna get banned.

*looks at current aura* Dang, what'd you do to get demodded so quickly! Luis hasn't even made your congratulatory thread yet!

=P

---

At 7/7/08 08:42 PM, NegativeONE wrote: I'll provide today's Flash-related controversy/drama.

Totem Destroyer - http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/44 7836

Isn't regulargabs working for Armor Games or something, or at least affiliated?

Anyway, I don't like to point fingers at other people, though I bet if Neg says it uses an open-source engine, it's bound to true due to his vast amount of experience over me.

If he did indeed use an open-source engine, it's a shame he got a good score AND profited from it with the sponsorship. It's only right that if you take an open-source thing and use it as the basis of your game, you had better expand on it A LOT. Sure, it's "open-source", but you shouldn't be able to take credit for other people's work if you just add one little thing to it and call it complete.

On a lighter note:

Luis Day
I just realized that almost one year has passed since the first Luis Day in 2007. Now, has Luis faced enough shame and embarrassment yet? Or.... should we...!

At 7/8/08 01:13 AM, Kart-Man wrote: If he did indeed use an open-source engine, it's a shame he got a good score AND profited from it with the sponsorship. It's only right that if you take an open-source thing and use it as the basis of your game, you had better expand on it A LOT. Sure, it's "open-source", but you shouldn't be able to take credit for other people's work if you just add one little thing to it and call it complete.

Oh he does mention it in the credits. Wouldn't say credit is the main issue. Moreso that the author practically licensed some poor guy's engine for profit.

At 7/8/08 01:18 AM, NegativeONE wrote:

At 7/8/08 01:13 AM, Kart-Man wrote: If he did indeed use an open-source engine, it's a shame he got a good score AND profited from it with the sponsorship. It's only right that if you take an open-source thing and use it as the basis of your game, you had better expand on it A LOT. Sure, it's "open-source", but you shouldn't be able to take credit for other people's work if you just add one little thing to it and call it complete.

Oh he does mention it in the credits. Wouldn't say credit is the main issue. Moreso that the author practically licensed some poor guy's engine for profit.

meh i dont mind it so much i think theres always more personal prestige in doing it yourself... obviously that doesnt necessarily translate to bitches and riches.. but then agian does it need to in order to equate as a win? people often equate a success to if their game got sponsored or some shit but thats not always true... not all of need to suck dicks to be successful.. maybe a game is just fun to make sometimes!

At 7/7/08 11:19 PM, NG-Unit wrote:

At 7/7/08 11:05 PM, Duchednier wrote: Aww man... and here i had this goodbye speech all prepared and everything...

D=

Haha a goodbye speech cuz I'm leaving for a week?

Well yeah man your like god around here =D
Jk :P i had NOTHING Prepared for you! MWHAHAHA

actually i kinda expected some kinda speech for me from someone >.> (not really but still)
AS OF THIS FRIDAY I AM OFF TO SWITZERLAND FOR 6 WEEKS!! HELL YEAH!!!
uh oh.. rudy's gonna spaz that i'm saying i'm leaving... ah well, it can't be helped, he'll just miss me so much =3

BYE RUDY! I'LL MISS YOU <3

At 7/8/08 01:24 AM, Luis wrote: meh i dont mind it so much i think theres always more personal prestige in doing it yourself... obviously that doesnt necessarily translate to bitches and riches.. but then agian does it need to in order to equate as a win? people often equate a success to if their game got sponsored or some shit but thats not always true... not all of need to suck dicks to be successful.. maybe a game is just fun to make sometimes!

Well that's easy for you to say, atop your pile of bitches and riches.

But seriously though, this is probably true. It's hard not to get caught up in the politics and the statistics of it all, but we're all bound to enjoy ourselves more if we make games/animations for ourselves first and for the audience second.

At 7/8/08 01:13 AM, Kart-Man wrote: *looks at current aura* Dang, what'd you do to get demodded so quickly! Luis hasn't even made your congratulatory thread yet!

I spelled Luis' name wrong when I was talking to him on msn, so he demodded me.

I got a quick look at the mod forum, oh, cocks galore. It was heaven...

At 7/7/08 07:30 PM, BritishMoose wrote: This place doesn't feel like home anymore.

Not since Senti started drinking again.

I agree.

Open-source

It is completely more honorable and praise-worthy to create an engine completely from scratch without ANY outside influences, compared to using premade pieces of code or graphics. However, any CAN use an OPEN SOURCE engine for any type of profit they see fit. While it's not exactly your work, since it's released to the public, anyone can do anything with it. In the case of Totem Destroyer, I'd say I am against this bro. While it's a uniqueing fun concept, the game is more or less ENTIRELY the open source script, with some buttons and colors. Thats not enough to warrant a unique game in my opinion. On the other hand, I am all for Open Source code stuff!

This is a perfect example. It uses the the open source physics shiat and molds it in to a wonderfully original fun physics game with unique creative puzzles. I completely back this dude up and anyone else who does some original with copied code. But, theres gotta be more to it than a little fucking totem.

I'll comment about the Open Source Game thread later over lunch. In the meantime though...

Leave already or I'll force you to

At 7/7/08 10:22 PM, NG-Unit wrote: Sorry you guys, I'm not leaving until later in the week. I know you were all looking forward to seeing me leave...

Remember how I keep banning people for the rules everyone has forgotton are rules (like, linking to Google or telling people to Use the Search Bar). Yeah. Check the ones about "I'm leaving" posts...

First and final warning.

At 7/8/08 12:26 AM, Rudy wrote: From now on, if anyone says "omg im leaving for a week but coming back" jawn -- you are banned.."
Wait. Fuck. I don't have mod powers. Oh wellz.

I do though.

In my never ending attempt to stir my brain juices I have been awake for roughly 40 hours... (I'm not even sure anymore... I woke at 2pm 2 days ago... and have lost my ability to do basic math because I keep getting an extra 2...) goin' for the 48'er... I was doing pretty good till the last few hours... I've noticed everything is becoming more and more progressively awesome and hilarious... And my head is starting to feel rather heavy... argh...

What's the craziest thing you guy's have done in the name of creativity?
coherency fading... fdsfdadds....

At 7/7/08 08:42 PM, NegativeONE wrote: I'll provide today's Flash-related controversy/drama.
...
But what's your take? Is the game good for putting a physics engine to work and applying Spielberg's creative thinking in the Flash world, or is it another Portal: Flash Version minus the honesty of naming it the same thing?

He definitely loses a few points for failing to cite his inspiration... As far as the game itself goes, it's fun, but it doesn't really justify its 4.4/wever score, especially considering it's use of an open-source engine which anyone could theoretically make a tonne of similar games from. Still, better lucky than good I guess.

I've still yet to play the game in question. Rant later.

A convenient side effect of indexing SWFs...

For those that were asleep when it came to reading important blogs last week, Google and Yahoo have worked together with Adobe to index SWF files in search results.

Practically, the use for indexing Flash websites is 50/50 - currently it ignores javaScript loaded Flash bar the SWFObject and some other accepted methods of loading movies into play, and obviously obeys robots.txt (so yes, it indexes content from uploads.ungrounded.net)

For real Flashwork, it doesn't include text loaded in from external sources, although it'll do its best to follow links. It also seems to have issues with dynamic text and nested Movie Clips from my testing of it. Put simply, if you've designed your site to load in content through XML or the loadMovie style methods like the good designers you are, your site's not going to get good Google Pagerank.

No. What *IS* going to show up a lot more are single swf files with a lot of static text on the main timeline. Like, say, Flash animations with subtitles...

Try the following with google:

Looks like someone stole one of my cartoons.

At 7/8/08 09:01 AM, KaynSlamdyke wrote: Try the following with google:

filetype:swf "curse you and your immortality"

Looks like someone stole one of my cartoons.

Cool.

Adobe should try to incorporate some way of letting people specify dialogue and whatnot which displays to the search engine. Like an additional option for text areas which automatically exports them for search engines, or something. Probably open to abuse, but no more so than having text on the main timeline with frame actions around it.