At 7/7/06 02:58 PM, Rucklo wrote: Its a great idea, mhb, and with "sub-genres" you could be able to put your submissions in for example main; "loop" sub; "emotions-genre" for example.

What i mainly mean in the recent discussion is that loops should be more profitable than full songs, and this is based on the point of view i imagine the admins would have, at least thats the first point with the AP, to be a tool for flash authors. I think thats a great idea, and that it should be evolved, even though the AP have grown into something else. Awarding loops mainly would most likley result in more loops. Plopp.

i completely agree that the audio portal's main focus should still be based on loops for the flash authors but man, rucklo, i know you're a musician and i know that deep down inside you feel the same way that we all do. makin' loops is not makin' music. it's makin' a beat. if i wanted to focus on makin' loops i'd become a producer for rap artists so i could get paid fo doin' nothin' makin' a loop is like makin' toast, you put in the raw materials, hit a few buttons, and it's done in a few minutes. there is no satisfaction in bein' known for your "fuckin' amazing loop makin' skillz!!!" therefore if loops were made the main priority and were given awards and full songs weren't, i think a lot of musicians on this site would be gripin' and complainin' about that. everybody that has somethin' submitted to this site deserves a fair chance at an award for their work. just think about how many tunes, loops, and animations could have been capitalized upon instead of given to newgrounds for free just to make the site better. alot of authors, both flash and audio, could be gettin' paid for makin' their stuff. but we chose to make newgrounds better by puttin' it on here for free. awards should be given out equally to all mediums of submissions, not just flash and audio loops.

At 7/7/06 03:09 PM, mhb wrote: i completely agree that the audio portal's main focus should still be based on loops for the flash authors but man, rucklo, i know you're a musician and i know that deep down inside you feel the same way that we all do. makin' loops is not makin' music. it's makin' a beat.

I definitley feel the same about that, considering i dont make loops on a daily basis. As the discussion goes now, its a question if the admins should take the AP for what it has become and make a full music porta of it (pros and cons discussed in a couple of previous posts), or if the best thing would be to try "control" the revamp into a more loop-friendly environment.

Making loops is a GREAT way for musicians to practise, btw. Or just extract a loop out of a full song, then TADAAAA - a loop and a full song.
Perhaps there should be an option, when you submit a song, so that you could submit a full song with a loop from the same song "attached" to the full song?!

therefore if loops were made the main priority and were given awards and full songs weren't, i think a lot of musicians on this site would be gripin' and complainin' about that. awards should be given out equally to all mediums of submissions, not just flash and audio loops.

Yeah, agreed. I belive many ppl might actually leave NG alltogether, but i personally still think it´s the right time to focus, and the AP is (should be) there for the flashes. However, it WOULD be stupid of NG to ignore what acutally have become of the AP. The best thing would of course be to find some mix i guess...
I belive in a balance between full songs/loops, but to begin with, i think loops (and perhaps sound FX?) should get more attention indeed, so there will be more of that stuff.
The ideas i´ve presented earlier is to make it more attractive making loops tho, in favour for the flash artists. Sure, many ppl would be dissapointed if loops/short songs would become prio #1 (for real) for the AP, but i think it would attract many ppl making cool loops as well. Not mentioning that the AP could indeed get reckognition and become famous for its nich throughout the interweb...
Before any award system is made, i assume the votingsystem should be revamped altogether. The system will control what awards are possible and fair.

I belive that it is to assume that NG in many ways will copy the system from the flash portal and make slight adjustements towards audio is being submitted, not flash... this i base on the fact that major work was put in that system, and it would be easier and more profitable to re-use as much as possible. Why change a winning concept? :)

Do note many of these things I discuss are just me assuming alot of things, I assume that the NG staff wants to keep the AP as a tool for flash artists and so on. All of the discussion is therefore based on assumptions.

At 7/7/06 03:46 PM, Rucklo wrote: Perhaps there should be an option, when you submit a song, so that you could submit a full song with a loop from the same song "attached" to the full song?!

There arn't enough loops to make a feature like that worthwhile, and simply because a feature is there dosn't mean that authors will be encouraged to use it.

Besides, why should loops be treated differently to any other track on the AP?

At 7/7/06 04:13 PM, Khuskan wrote:

At 7/7/06 03:46 PM, Rucklo wrote: Perhaps there should be an option, when you submit a song, so that you could submit a full song with a loop from the same song "attached" to the full song?!

There arn't enough loops to make a feature like that worthwhile, and simply because a feature is there dosn't mean that authors will be encouraged to use it.

Besides, why should loops be treated differently to any other track on the AP?

Like I mentioned, this is all depending on what the admins would want with the AP. If they want it to contain more loops, that was simply a suggestion. And to make a feature like that worthy, there could be awards to controll them in that direction.

I know personally that I would take advantage of such a feature.

After reading through Rucklos ideas, I've reached a middleground that hopefully will be a more upgrade-friendly system.

Instead of adding loads of new variables for each track, expand on the current search system. I propose that instead of just having search by track name/track author, the system goes much more in depth, using all the variables that currently (pointlessly) exist on tracks.

I propose the following features:

Searching by track length. For example <1 min and >2 min would eaisily seporate loops from full tracks.

Searching by vote score - though instead of searching by numbers, the search would be based off the average score of all audio submissions combined, so the average would probably lie around 2.20, where a good quality track would be that + 1 point, so 3.20. This should help flash artists sort the chaff from the wheat.

Searching by gold/platinum etc. This could also be used either in tandem or instead of the vote score system - although sometimes downloads arn't an accurate representation of quality, and if the problem where people can mass download their own tracks isn't adressed, then it is likely that people may spam their songs so they get included in the searches.

You see, the reason behind this is there are currently a lot of variables assinged to tracks that are never actually used, such as gold/platinums, and this could all be put to good use, both aiding flash animators (as the portal was designed for) by making it eaisier to find exactly the track they want, and aiding musicians by making those hard-earned platinums/golds actually worth something.

Also I forgot to add. The search system would actually require very little change to the actual submission forum. If we were do to something like add a bunch of new features like longer comments, etc, there wil be a bunch of 'redundent' tracks that all have that feature empty. However, editing the search feature to be more indepth would only mean that the search gets edited - the actual track system need not be edited at all (although of course there are still a lot of improvements that can be made)

I really hope the big boys are looking at this thread, because there are some awesome ideas here.

I have always been confused to why the Audio Portal dose not work the same way as the flash one... I mean judging whise there is way to meany crappy songs, also I just want to be able to delete some of my old crappy work! Jeez like any one wants to listen to I-Poo! WTF was I thinking?

At 7/8/06 05:18 AM, AngryStudent wrote: Jeez like any one wants to listen to I-Poo! WTF was I thinking?

Ahahah that made my morning, made me lol at least :D

sry off topic, but that was really funny X´D

OK>.< I did not know it was funny at all... I guess It was pretty damn random, and random=funny
I guess.

"IP logging to prevent users from mass downloading their own tracks" was the best idea I have heard yet, and I would like to add that the audio player(ParagonX9) on the main audio page should have saved preferences with cookies. (When I want the audio player to stay off, it will just start again next page load). This shouldn't interfere with listening to songs while browsing.

Excellent work though, I can't really complain.

All those changes sound good, but i'd be happy even with just these:

Blam/protect(To keep me from putting on every single thing that I make, POS or not, and to lower bandwidth costs, I guess.)

More clear genres(I used to think that classical rock meant the same thing as instrumental rock! Can you believe that?)

More space in the description area(Sometimes I want more than 90 characters!)

Edit-ability, being able to change the title, description, and/or genre selection of a song(I sometimes put stuff in the wrong category from time to time.)

More audio representation on the NG frontpage(All portals are created equal!!!)

umm...add more sub categories. Divide trance up a bit...as well as other categories, just to organize it a little better. As well as some self moderation power...so you can delete/ edit various things. This also would be useful if there was some easy way to switch categorys in case you submitted it wrong. MORE FRONT PAGE EXPOSURE. Even if that means just placing a top 5 daily/weekly submissions list, ON THE FRONT PAGE. I mean like newgrounds.com, not newgrounds.com/audio. Any front page exposure of any kind, would help recognition out, tons.
If people submit their own songs, for others to enjoy...and some jealous assholes come by and leave hurtful reviews just to spite you... you know something needs to be done. So I think any improvement in moderation, such as bans or warnings for alot more offensive reviews, would be an imrovement. Perhaps... place a "was this review helpful?" thingy at the bottom of each review. Then if enough people click the abusive link, it'll be flagged for moderators to inspect...thus helping increase the moderation. All the audio regulars and all the audio listeners pretty much, have integrity. So involving the listeners in any way, as well as giving them any power, is an improvement. Ok im a little wasted at tjhe moment...so ima leave it at that, before I start sounding like a retard.

g-R

Minimum filesize (200kb?) to prevent people uploading pointless crap.

At 7/11/06 07:09 AM, Khuskan wrote: Minimum filesize (200kb?) to prevent people uploading pointless crap.

non-loop friendly... Also nothing would prevent ppl from uploading empty tracks that are 3 min long...

Best thing would probably be if the main audio portal got split up, in for example;

- Full songs
- Loopable songs
- (soundeffects???)

Then there could be different filesize limits there, i suppose... Perhaps slightly different rules for submitting even...

At 7/10/06 04:17 AM, g-rave wrote: ... place a "was this review helpful?" thingy at the bottom of each review. Then if enough people click the abusive link, it'll be flagged for moderators to inspect...thus helping increase the moderation.

I absolutely agree with this. I think it should be done.

you can still report the guy, just PM a moderator (preferably an audio mod) and let them handle it....

At 7/11/06 07:27 AM, Rucklo wrote: - Full songs
- Loopable songs
- (soundeffects???)

I don't think we should seporate song types at all. Make it easier to seporate loops from full songs when looking for tracks sure, but there is no real reason to split the AP into a section for loops and a section for full songs.

As for the abusive reviews, I got the same problem once or twice, that and a sudden binge of zero-voting that seems to have hit me:

make random audio links pop up on peoples screens after they rate a flash. Incourage Flash guys to dig deep and not just to look at the top of the audio lists. GIVE THE AUDIO A DELETE BUTTON

At 7/12/06 03:30 AM, Syntrus wrote: GIVE THE AUDIO A DELETE BUTTON

Too dangerous, consider if your account gets hacked, and they wipe out your entire library.

At 7/12/06 03:43 AM, Erkie wrote:

At 7/12/06 03:30 AM, Syntrus wrote: GIVE THE AUDIO A DELETE BUTTON

Too dangerous, consider if your account gets hacked, and they wipe out your entire library.

If my bank account gets hacked I lose the money. Get a good password and protect youself by not signing in on public terminals.

Of course it shouldn´t be possible to vote until you´ve heard the song... Just like flash. IMeaning, that even if you download the song, you still would have to listen to it streaming it.
Add a "listen counter".

At 7/12/06 03:43 AM, Erkie wrote:

At 7/12/06 03:30 AM, Syntrus wrote: GIVE THE AUDIO A DELETE BUTTON

Too dangerous, consider if your account gets hacked, and they wipe out your entire library.

If you're stupid enough to get phished for your password, you sort of deserve to get all your tracks deleted.

But if a delete system was added, it would probably work like the new portal system, where you can only delete x ammount of tracks per day... or possibly e-mail confirmation that you want a track deleted.

Change the ridiculous 4,000 KB limit!

At 7/12/06 09:40 PM, GoreBastard wrote: YEAH! I just made the 100th post in this thread. Fuck you.

I'll race you to 420!

Baah, I read half way trough and now I'm confusseld. XD

Khuskan's first post owns hard. There are things that can be developed directly and things that could come in the future. I have apple polish as well here. *gives cookie*

How about making "ONE" list with all the good and realisable things and then email it to mindchamber or tom? I've read lots of good ideas but as further this thread goes, it will be harder to filter things out cause we discuss here as well, what's ok!

I don't think that the admins will read the hole thread and I don't think they have time for that as well. A problem tho. Who's making the list and how to judge what's coming on it and what's not? Ideas gentleman?

§ 301 Abs. 4 vers 17: Chronmut is king of THEE "forgey". "Forgey" is a composite of the english words 'Forum', in relation to internet based community forums, and 'Orgy', in relation to large sexual encounters with many people of either same of different sex.

§ 302 Abs. 6 vers 10: A forgey is normally what happens when a thread in a forum goes completely out of hand, and starts to branch into several, microcosmical coversations between isolated groups and couples.

credits to khuskan <3

At 7/13/06 09:22 AM, Chronamut wrote: SHOES.

Thnx, I had a wonderful idea foor the AP and you'll pop up with this and now I totally forgot it. Mayor thnx prick T_T

Make it to where if they vote really high or low then they have to leave a review for the vote to go through. Or if they vote in the mid-range then they can choose whether or not to leave a review.

Also, I agree about getting rid of the annoying music, unless you add tons of different random loops on refresh and have a cookie that remembers whether or not you want it to play automatically whenever the main audio page is loaded.

Also, if you havent seen my noobish first song, my friend kept hitting the download button. it would be nice to download it whenever, but have it only count one of those downloads from your ip address.

Last of all, I like the idea of having some version of that batting average for audio, not a biggie though.

Thanks all.

I realize this would take forever to implement but obviously I want more people voting on audio, and the only way to do that is to have experiance points for voting on audio as well. Too many good audio portal songs go unnoticed simply because they slip out from anywhere that a casual listener could find them.

Daily top 5 would be hott. Blue and Green colored songs would be nice too.