I don't understand, story/writing and editing.. shouldn't you just average your thoughts about those in with Style? I think this is just too complicated. I would like to see it, but it sounds a bit too tough.

At 3/26/05 07:42 PM, High_Roller wrote: I don't understand, story/writing and editing.. shouldn't you just average your thoughts about those in with Style? I think this is just too complicated. I would like to see it, but it sounds a bit too tough.

I think Style refers to the type of visual style or style of game, as pointed out by over 500 people with my Coffee Break cartoon. And we all know Randy Solem's style. This is why I think Style and Graphics should be merged into "Visual Style" and add Story/Writing to incorporate a new category that has gone unnoticed for far too long when rating reviews.

Well the idea of having new options for reviewing would be pretty cool, but I'm a bit worried about how they would just go unappreciated. It's bad enough when you make a cartoon that's not up to par(for one reason or another), but then it just gives the Blammers and n00bs out there more ammunition for their crap spewers (mouths).

If it weren't for those groups of people, I think the review system is pretty good right now, and that adding the new options would definetly help us Flash authors with more specific suggestions on how to improve.

You got my vote, we need an effort option.

I think we should be able to give points for animation

At 3/26/05 08:20 PM, BellClock wrote: I think we should be able to give points for animation

Not a bad idea. Good work!

At 3/26/05 07:26 PM, FrOzEn_FoX wrote: You know, if these catagories were added, there would be the issue of the old reviews that didn't review these catagories, what if you were forced to re-review everything?

I don't see why this would have to happen. It would only affect reviews made after the system had been put in place. Old reviews could simply have the fields marked N/A.

At 3/26/05 07:26 PM, FrOzEn_FoX wrote: You know, if these catagories were added, there would be the issue of the old reviews that didn't review these catagories, what if you were forced to re-review everything?

They never used to have humour as a category. When they added it, they just left the old reviews as they were. With the profile redesign, they appear to have just added in a 0 where there was nothing before.

At 3/24/05 02:38 AM, JeremyLokken wrote: I think two of the biggest categories that go unacknowledged are the Story/Writing and the Editing. With talent on the rise within the Newgrounds community, I think elaborate reviews that include these categories are necessary. Not only does a cartoon have some form of writing, but games usually have stories to them too. If someone has an amazing ability to animate, but has a crappy story that is overplayed or just has no substance to it, we can FINALLY vote low on it. Hopefully this will push a new standard to the way we tell stories, or just get more people to tell stories better.

For quite a while I've been thinking that a 'content' (for lack of a better way to phrase it at the time) rating was missing from the review categories. I definitely agree with you about adding a 'story/writing' category. It's such a significant part of a Flash that I'm surprised it isn't a category already. A Flash with a strong, well written (and original, perhaps another category that could be considered) story is somewhat infrequent in the portal, it would be good to be able to give that specific aspect of such a Flash the ten it deserves.

At 3/24/05 02:38 AM, JeremyLokken wrote: Right now we currently have these options to rate on:

Graphics, Sound, Interactivity, Style, Violence, Humor, and then Overall score.

I think two of the biggest categories that go unacknowledged are the Story/Writing and the Editing.

Story writing is a good one! lets protest!!!!

At 3/26/05 08:20 PM, BellClock wrote: I think we should be able to give points for animation

Also doesnt sound like an bad idea.

If more people start talking about it, maybe it will eventually happen! Don't have to protest. Would people even know how to review on editing or would flash authors even understand that by putting a sequence of pictures together, you can create a story? I once heard someone say (when it comes to movies) that the greatest art that is the most unnoticed is the Editing. People get story, acting, sets, sounds, and all that jazz. Would NGers understand editing or would an explanation be needed?

At 3/30/05 04:43 AM, JeremyLokken wrote: If more people start talking about it, maybe it will eventually happen! Don't have to protest. Would people even know how to review on editing or would flash authors even understand that by putting a sequence of pictures together, you can create a story? I once heard someone say (when it comes to movies) that the greatest art that is the most unnoticed is the Editing. People get story, acting, sets, sounds, and all that jazz. Would NGers understand editing or would an explanation be needed?

While I think that good editing does make a film better, (heck, bad editing can make a great film into a b-grade mess) I'm not sure that enough people would understand exactly what editing is - or how to rate it - for it to justify creating a new review category.

At 3/24/05 02:38 AM, JeremyLokken wrote: The Sound category is a bit vague when considering voice acting, musical score, and sound effects, but I guess that's what the reviewer's notes are left for. Maybe consider changing "Sound" to Sound/Music or Sound/Voice Acting.

Maybe instead of Sound/Music or Sound/Voice Acting you can simply sum up the entire category by calling it Audio.

I am quite happy with the current review system but I agree that some categories such as the ones you posted could be a good addition to the current review system. Maybe the Editing and Story category can be summed into one called 'Construction'?

Anyway, I will be happy no matter what happens to the review system as I like the current system and like the changes you suggested.

At 3/30/05 04:43 AM, JeremyLokken wrote: Would NGers understand editing or would an explanation be needed?

Whether they understand or not, an explanation would be helpful to ensure people know exactly what they are reviewing.

I think having a separate score for "Overall" is kinda redundant.

It should be an average of the other scores.

That's my opinion.

At 3/30/05 05:12 AM, RedCircle wrote: I think having a separate score for "Overall" is kinda redundant.

It should be an average of the other scores.

That's my opinion.

I like your point. Maybe people feel that this overall score is a reflection of if they felt angry or happy at the end of the flash cartoon. I constantly see 10's for people who found something funny, and 0's for people who hated something. They leave this overall vote for an emotional investment :) Yes, go with average! But only if they fully understand each topic ratting that will be averaged in. I wouldn't like to see "I voted 0 on editing because I don't know what that means."

At 3/30/05 05:12 AM, RedCircle wrote: I think having a separate score for "Overall" is kinda redundant.

It should be an average of the other scores.

That's my opinion.

Average !?! no way, just because a flash isn't funny, or interactive, it shouldn't be unable to get full marks Overall.

At 3/30/05 05:19 AM, Tom_s00 wrote:

At 3/30/05 05:12 AM, RedCircle wrote: I think having a separate score for "Overall" is kinda redundant.

It should be an average of the other scores.

That's my opinion.

Average !?! no way, just because a flash isn't funny, or interactive, it shouldn't be unable to get full marks Overall.

...Then I think that those topics should be changed! Not everything on NG is made to be funny or violent now, though a lot of that flash once founded the NG portal. There's a larger variety of content now.

I've often thought there should be a 'writing/plot' score, as it happens to be one of the most important aspects of any flash, and is currently overlooked horribly.

Editing, as you said, can only really be judged by someone who knows their stuff, which is unfortunately a very low percentage of newgrounders.

I would love to be able to score the editing, but hey, too many idiots.

I think originality is the only missing link in reviewing at the moment.

At 3/30/05 07:09 AM, LazyFuckingBastard wrote: I think originality is the only missing link in reviewing at the moment.

yea that and story,i like those ideas.

(ps check the asm)

We need a charcater limit, so that we get less of thease type of reviews...

"AWSOME"
"This was great"
"The best ever"

If you added a character limet say that the user has to write 10 words or more the reviews might turn for the better and will draw away the spammers and what not...

~X~

At 3/31/05 12:14 AM, XwaynecoltX wrote: We need a charcater limit, so that we get less of thease type of reviews...

"AWSOME"
"This was great"
"The best ever"

If you added a character limet say that the user has to write 10 words or more the reviews might turn for the better and will draw away the spammers and what not...

~X~

A character limit sounds like a good idea, but also sounds like a turn off for people who don't have much to say, but still want to say something. It might generate a bunch of junk wording in the review, like "54fdgbdfbghghgfhfh."

At 3/31/05 12:28 AM, JeremyLokken wrote: A character limit sounds like a good idea, but also sounds like a turn off for people who don't have much to say, but still want to say something. It might generate a bunch of junk wording in the review, like "54fdgbdfbghghgfhfh."

I know but im just saying because we could use alot more reviews based on the movie/game and how it can be improved rather then spammers, and besides the review mods can ban those ones with the character spamming aswell...

It just seems way out of hand whin a majority of the reviews are 3 words and so on just to get a review count or something...

~X~

Or you can coment on those elements instead. I think the review system is fine the way it is.

At 3/24/05 02:50 AM, -Wolfguy- wrote: I don't really think that authors nowadays really care about who individualy gave them what in this and that, but if thier flash gets a good rating and survives.

Artists that want to improve care and listen. I think the changes to the review options are a great way to direct people on their feedback and accurate reviewing.

That leads me to the thought that your batting average should be based on your reviews instead of your portal score. But that's another topic.

At 3/24/05 02:38 AM, JeremyLokken wrote: I think two of the biggest categories that go unacknowledged are the Story/Writing and the Editing.

Yeah, I agree. I would love to see some more options for reviewing, as the current system is getting a little dated now.

Maybe one day they will make some changes...

I think it is good the way it is, altough those additions do sound very good.
I believe there should be more rules for voting. Like only vote for things that are created by the submitter of the Flash.
Why?
Well because if you'll post a very high quality edit of a funny and violent video, and add an insanely good soundtrack, you should be getting high scores, without having done much yourself, therefore not deserving credit.

At 12/15/05 09:27 AM, Orchidaceae wrote: I think it is good the way it is, altough those additions do sound very good.
I believe there should be more rules for voting. Like only vote for things that are created by the submitter of the Flash.
Why?
Well because if you'll post a very high quality edit of a funny and violent video, and add an insanely good soundtrack, you should be getting high scores, without having done much yourself, therefore not deserving credit.

Or maybe raising the standard, that 50% of the video/cartoon be original. So music videos are still allowed, but the visuals have to be original. Or audio original and video taken.