People on Newgrounds should review music based on the music, not on whether it's available for use in an 11 year old game that I don't personally care that much about. It's just not for me.

The music that I create is an asset I own, and my assets form part of my livelihood. Everyone gets to listen to all artists on Newgrounds completely free. That is an incredible deal. We are under no obligation to provide this for you in GD, especially if we have plans to use the license for that music in a way that actually supports me and my family through my composing.

People making art, movies or games don't have to put up with this and neither should musicians.

Shit like this makes me immediately want to stop uploading music all together. Review art on it's merit, not on how you choose to consume it.

please don't take it personally, it's just a rating! i don't think that some kids disliking it diminishes the inherent value of the music

besides, people not listening to music for its artistic value is as old as music itself. it's why the music business exists! as someone who used to be one of those kids, those who get it will appreciate the music in time, so don't worry about those who don't too much

I never take individual ratings personally - I love my own music and I'd never let strangers docking stars stop me from producing and improving it everyday.

I've written hundreds of tracks professionally for clients who if they dont like something will tell you what they dont like and wont pay you unless you change it. Believe me when I say I have a thick enough skin for criticism.

I also know my style of music isn't for everyone so I'm never gonna score the best compared to others.

However do remember, every month there are prizes, in October there are more prizes - prizes I don't get to compete with because people dock marks for something not related to the actual music.

If it affects me, it affects others on Newgrounds as well, and I think we all deserve an even playing field.

I feel for you man, GD and FNF kids are a plague on this site. I wish NG was 18+ to have an account.

Definitely have gotten these reviews before. Reviews should ALWAYS be based on the quality of the work. If the reviewer docks you points, there should be a fair reason, and definitely some constructive criticism.

But not having the GD box checked is NOT a reason to dock points. Honestly, people find all sorts of reasons to take a few stars off that have nothing to do with the piece they’re reviewing. “Gotta take a star off, I don’t like you as a person.” Or, my pet peeve, reviewing based on a personal preference. “Sorry I don’t like synthwave, 2 stars”

I get these kinds of reviews the most. If we could review from a more objective standpoint instead of basing ratings on opinions or external factors, we’d probably live in a utopian society right about now

Kids have a lot to offer this site, but they also can diminish the quality of this site in many ways. Either way it’s a tradeoff imo

They're just having a bad bad day. If you take it personal, well, that's okay.

Technically, that goes against the rules of leaving an NG review, as it’s effectively a personal attack on you for not having it available for GD, rather than an assessment of the quality itself. Besides, it says right under the review box that “unhelpful reviews” are one of the types of reviews that “will be flagged and may result in a ban”.

Teach these kids a lesson, enforce that rule and let them see their annoying comments being taken down until they learn to stop.

I just realized my previous post, about how this is against the rules and should be reported, also applies to your dilemma. I don’t know if it’ll notify you if I ping you in an edit, so here.

The rating system is good, but these low IQ kind of kids are just the fucking problem. They

are everywhere too and I hate them so bad. I wish their dads beat them with the belt instead

of running away to go fuck with the neighbor's wife.

Ah, just ignore it!

I don’t care for these types are comments either, but that’s because they aren’t worth any amount of breath or finger strength to respond. Seriously, how much brain power did it take to make that comment vs how much brain power does one need to listen and consider it? Both questions are tied with the same answer: not much. Once you stop looking at the comment, you’ll forget about it by the next morning.

I did have this review taken down, but the score still stands.

To be fair, I usually do ignore it and have done for 5 years. Mainly because whenever I do engage with them it leads to my scores immediately dropping.

I did get home last night quite tipsy and chose to say something last night. Pretty out of character but you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube 🤣

; If it affects me, it affects others on Newgrounds as well, and I think we all deserve an even playing field.

I'm not a musician but I have a deep respect for the artists here on the audio portal. If def affects everyone here.

For my personal film I made in may, out of the 50+ comments I got, I have had kids/teens (which tbh I really wish looked at the rating becuz it was a Mature film) and rated it low because funni.

I have had been robbed, lack for a better word on daily win because of the score and everything. I ain't upset or anything and a lot of people loved my film and it got fp. But because of how rating is treated like a like/dislike instead of a 0-5 rating it's hard to even make something without it going under for prizes, daily win and other shit.

Not mad at Newgrounds, it's just been it's nature. Esp how other sites have removed the rating feature and change it to a like feature.

Alcohol: Trouble in Liquid Form

i hope, now you ve got better reviews after posting this complaint ;) (deep in my heart, i understand your point, but thats mankind in a nutshell)

For what it's worth, I believe this sort of "allow song on GD" requests should be added to the review guidelines as another thing that can get you banned. Just to make it clear that they should get flagged; I know real well that GD kids are not the kind that read the rules.

Is that so? I used to get picked for the monthly votings every month, from what I recall the movies & games in the pool are all submissions that got a frontpage that month, what would make staff playing favourites (or to put it more kindly, tunnel vision) with some artists more of a determining factor than a few randos rating it low just for the lulz.

I know the monthly voting system had an upgrade this year and I have not been picked for voting since I deleted my account so I might be wrong about this.

That cannot be done so long as people are involved. As much as it would be theoretically better that all ratings were purely objective, with art in general being incredibly subjective and different people having different cultural backgrounds I believe it just isn't possible currently.

Wasn't that a thing in the previous design, that unhelpful reviews could receive negative points and only outright abusive reviews would be removed? I wasn't around in that time so I don't really know how it worked, but I always thought it was a leftover note from that previous design, otherwise negative criticism could not be given (unless I am misreading something).

Yyyyep, that's why. Well, glad I don't drink. Folks - drink responsibly! (I choose NA beverages.)

sips NA beer

Ahh. Sobriety.

I totally agree with you on the GD/FNF side of things but unfortunately making this place 18+ to participate would probably kill the site if we're being realistic :(

Sigh, I am sorry this happened and I agree with everything you said. Big respect for musician here!

On a brighter note thanks to this post I discovered your music and it's beautiful, talented and creative. Keep it up because I love it. I will leave reviews as well since I like to fully experience musical works that catch my interest.

I got a review (More than one? I think it was only one) about GD years ago but since I've never been a popular artist I think I avoid this type of attention. It's against the rules of the site to leave reviews like that, though. Reviews are to be reviews here.

I think that the exposure that these music games give the community are a net positive.

I can agree with all three of you, but over 90% of the bull**** I report on a daily basis seems to come from accounts with ages listed as 13 years old. Obviously, some of them are lying about their age and/or mentally handicapped. (I looked up the medical term, but English isn't my first language. I do not intend to make light of users with disabilities!)

A new age limit of 16+ would get my vote.

Or having to put down money (11 bucks?) before they are allowed to write reviews and submit to the various Portals. The wallet is where it hurts - at any age. ;)

1) Good job.

2) If you calculate an average of 0 and 5, you get 2.5. 3.0 is still above average.

3) I'll have you know that, while some users will only ever rate either 0 or 5 on submissions, others will vote in a way that expresses how they personally feel about a submission. I'm not above smuggling a cheeky 5 in while the submissions I really like are still having a chance for the daily Top 5, but in general, I reserve ratings over a 3.5 for works that really stand out.

I would offer you to rate 3 of your tracks as an example, but I suspect you might not be too happy with the result.

I am sorry if I worded that a bit harsh. I am too tired to rewrite it in a gentler tone but needed to get it out of my system before I get my entirely too few hours of remaining sleep. Thank you for speaking up about this topic in the first place. With any luck, this thread might help other artists (in the present and from the future) who are in the same situation as you.

I didn't think it was a thing! It smells like petty narcissism. "Look at what you made me do! Now I'll punish your art if you don't give me what I want!" For some people art is just flowers growing out of nowhere that can be picked whenever, without consideration for the gardener without who there would be nothing to pick.

I was wondering how my last piece could drop so much based on one rating after whole bunch of good ones. And I liked the piece too:) But in the end I just thought, someone really didn't like this style of music, we all have different tastes after all! It's not that having high or low rating will change anything in the passion I have in making music, but it can affect the discovery potential for musicians who would put gems out there but then be the 500 000th track down the list between 2 other that are much lower quality, just because it's been voted down artificially.

But then, does it matter a lot? Looking into lots of artists who post high quality music and are popular on NG, they don't get many listeners passed the first week or 2 post release. I feel like most releases get 99% of their audience during the first couple days, unless it gets publicity outside of NG, or maybe if it gets extremely high rating, enough to be in "best of the year or month", or if it's used in other projects, movie, or game then it can gather more attention over time... But looking over the archive even of featured music, I don't think that the star rating affects the audience in any significant way. It's a somewhat non issue to me, I just find it sad that someone feels like giving bad rating either for no good reason, or just to use the very little authority they can get to try to hurt someone else.

So, what could be done to correct ratings of music that's being downvoted for no good reason? Maybe create a forum post where musicians can claim they've been ridiculously downvoted, so then people on the audio forum can go bring that average back up to act as counterweight. I think there could be enough people in this forum to help bring up bad ratings on music that is worth future discovery. If there was a significant audience for old releases I think that discovery potential would matter a lot more, and with it the star rating, but without it I don't know. I sure was surprised by the big drop in my own rating, but it doesn't bother me.

@wobwobrob I went ahead and brought a couple of your tracks up. Not sure if it will change anything, but your average is slightly higher now

Is the most succinct way to put it. Beautiful. Poetic even.

It's funny that you mention this because it is something that somebody already did. It went as well as you'd expect. The correct solution here is to not care about the ratings so much, as you've stated previously it is really nothing too important in the grand scheme of things.

Part of the issue here is that the "no good reason" is (usually) pretty hard to prove and it would be a really cheap way for everyone and their mother to make the claim "I "deserve" a higher rating for this."

Plus, you'd have to implement a "fair" system, so only a user with the same voting power total can vote for it to provide a fair counterbalance. Even just the discussion would be a total mess.

And what is a "fair" rating anyway? I really liked an (Art Portal) submission that got frontpaged. But on my fair scale it got 3.5 stars - because it had a lot of room for improvement. I still like it and would recommend it to others. Not everything I like has to be "perfect". But it would be unfair to "perfect" works of art if I were to rate everything that was "just okay" or "likeable" with 5 stars.

I concur with Leavesz:

Let's not focus on the numbers and more on the art and the feedback it inspires.

...And if the feedback is against the rules, we can still kindly suggest that the Moderation team smashes it to bits with their big hammers! ;)

Oh well forget about that then! :) I think that's the right approach, just not care! All that matters is the reasons why we make music. Getting a 0 is surprising, not something to be happy about.

I was thinking about it, maybe it would be nice, if someone votes too low on too many published projects versus the average, then they get outed, their name appears everywhere they voted way lower than the average and voting power resets or lose points. I don't know, anyway like we already said, it's not that important, has no impact other than on the score itself!

I completely agree, focus must stay on what's relevant, no matter if it may be a bit frustrating to get a good score destroyed by one voter hitting 0. The love for our craft comes first, then if the goal is to publish the average appreciation and feedbacks matter a lot more than any amount of stars.

"Fair" rating in something as subjective as art creation, can be quite tricky! I think you get a good point too about ego. Sometimes it's about real issues that would need attention, and sometimes about big ego artists who need a lesson of humility. A justified low rating that comes with constructive feedback can be an opportunity to grow!

Though, I think measuring one's habit of voting too low vs average could help detect those who vote down based on ill intentions more than on any fair reasons. Bringing some kind of negative effect for those who abuse down votes, up to removing ability to vote, could help discourage the practice. If someone votes 0 half of the time, always on stuff that get an average rating of over 4, it would be a strong tell tale sign.

I think your heart is in the right place, @Solacitude, but if NG were to make votes public, angry children who are way under 13 and snuck their way onto NG would come after everyone who did not give 5 stars to them screaming into a cheap microphone while the intro of their favorite TV show plays in the background.

While I get the accountability angle, you have to take into account that, for whatever reason, a lot of users on NG do not vote in the first place. The threat of losing out on their peace and quiet would further drive those numbers down even further. In the end, people would only feel comfortable voting 5 - and what good is a rating system if everything gets the same rating?

If it is any solace to you, people who are irredeemable *bleep*s on NG get a lot of backlash and just "forget about NG" after a while, because they can't find any friends and fans here. (And because the stuff that racists and homophobes publish gets "mysteriously" removed "by the site". I wonder what that is about...)

I was thinking about making a voter public or removing voting power, only if an account would vote too often a lot lower than the average. Voting 1 or 0 on something that averages 4.5 is very likely not fair. Voting 1 or 0 on an average of 2.5 is probably fair. It could be measured and used to detect users who abusively downvote lots of material. Then to either limit voting power and/or make their votes public.

I'm all about keeping the voting anonymous for everyone else though!

For the same reasons you mentioned, to encourage people to vote on submissions.

The more people vote the more the average gives a good representation of the appreciation.

Lots of content deserve 2 or 3. But 1, or 0 the published material must be extremely bad.

I would say someone who often votes 3 stars lower than the average is most likely up to no good.

Anyway it's not something very important in the end, just thinking out loud about potential solutions to limit the problem brought by OP :) Not that I would personally care that much that such thing would be implemented. Getting a huge drop due to 1 voter is a bad surprise that lasted 2 minutes. I was not freaked out by the score drop itself, but by thinking about "Oh no! Did I forget to adjust something? Does my mix sounds like trash? Did I miss something, an obvious mistake?".

Keeping high ratings would matter more if there was something like a streaming distribution of NG music that favorizes discovery of old music by wider audience who could filter NG music based on rating, and many other options. Then it would be sad to get great material artificially brought down because it would limit its discovery potential. Otherwise, it's a kind of non issue to me! I just like to brainstorm :)

Follow the old addage:

Report, Delete, Ignore.

These types of reviews are not welcome here. Critique that is fair and well intented is literally a low review requirement or it goes against the rules. Theta couldn’t of said it any better tbh.

It was actually because of these GD bombers, that I just stopped ticking the box altogether for compatibility, and delete anything in reference to ‘why u no GD??’ because I fucking can, and I owe nobody nothing. And neither should you as an artist! <3

This is why RobTop should make a seperate website for music already. Even if you make your song usable in GD, if a popular level uses it your comment section is going to be filled with children