At 12/12/08 09:20 PM, Dream-of-Duke wrote: Most big guys cannot wresle. When will Vince learn his lesson? In the WWE, if you cannot wresle and you have no mic skills, you will not last long.

He never will. Vince loves the big guys and they'll get many, many more chances then a lot of other dudes. Look at a Brock Lesnar, Lesnar got a monstrous push out of the blocks because he was such a damn monster...the rest of us just got lucky that he also was a phenomenal performer in the ring and on the stick. It is true that most big guys are not terribly great, but there's always exceptions, it's just too bad that outside of Taker and Henry, I haven't really seen that many of them on the WWE roster (no, I will not count Tomko until he officially debuts).

At 12/13/08 01:56 AM, aviewaskewed wrote: (no, I will not count Tomko until he officially debuts).

Speaking of debuting, where the hell is Kizarny?

Also, what was with that little "camera interruption" promo during SD tonight (you know, some guy talking about the darkness)?

Did I miss something here?

At 12/13/08 07:45 AM, TheD-LucksEdition wrote: That's developmental talent Hade Vansen, who'll be debuting sometime in the near future with a gimmick not unlike Christopher Daniels' 'Fallen Angel' gimmick.

Well from what it saw that should be a fun, failed way to remind me of the old "Attitude Era" gimmicks (Undertaker-esque?)

From what I understand Kizarny is a friend of Edge's from when they were younger.
http://www.wrestlezone.com/article.php?a rticleid=231032223

So I'm thinking Edge had something to do with him getting on SD. We'll have to wait and see just what he will do with the weird gimmick and how he performs in the ring.

At 12/13/08 03:14 AM, l0vemetal wrote: Speaking of debuting, where the hell is Kizarny?

I'm not sure, all I know is the gimmick is drawing zero interest it seems like, so I almost wonder if they won't just quietly scrap the whole thing and he'll never make TV with it. Or he'll just be re-tooled slightly before coming up.

At 12/13/08 11:52 PM, aviewaskewed wrote: I'm not sure, all I know is the gimmick is drawing zero interest it seems like, so I almost wonder if they won't just quietly scrap the whole thing and he'll never make TV with it. Or he'll just be re-tooled slightly before coming up.

A damn shame, I was looking forward to seeing his weird ass in the WWE ring. I checked out some vids of him on YT and it seemed like he would be at least slightly entertaining to watch...

At 12/14/08 12:06 AM, l0vemetal wrote: A damn shame, I was looking forward to seeing his weird ass in the WWE ring. I checked out some vids of him on YT and it seemed like he would be at least slightly entertaining to watch...

I think it's a bad idea to have a wacky clown gimmick where the guy cuts promos in a language no one gets. It's one of those jokes that's too inside for most people to get. There's even wrestlers out there now who probably wouldn't really get the joke because almost no one speaks in kizarny (Carny) anymore.

Odd that they have the tag belts change hands during a house show... I hope we at least get a rematch on Raw. I do think Miz and Morrison can do a good job as champions and since they now have two things to gloat over they will really have the crowd against them when the cut promos.

At 12/14/08 10:55 AM, Outlaw88 wrote: Odd that they have the tag belts change hands during a house show... I hope we at least get a rematch on Raw. I do think Miz and Morrison can do a good job as champions and since they now have two things to gloat over they will really have the crowd against them when the cut promos.

MM have been the best duo in the company. Putting the titles on their shoulders will bring more creditibility to the tag team titles. Good move.

WTF, Batista beat Orton clean? WTF was the WWE thinking? Orton had his gang crew members Rhodes and Manu with him and he still lost to Batista? I am sick of the creative team making an awesome heel like RKO job to Batista. Where will "the legacy" go from there? The creative team destroyed all the credibilities of the "legacy" just because Vince and Co are high on Batista. Even if Batista lost the match, he would not look weak because it was 1 on 3. Now that Batista has destroyed the "legacy" by himself. The creative spit on Orton's face yet again.

OH SHIT

Good job, Jeff! Good job.

Jeff "2 out of three violations" Hardy won CLEAN?!?!

WHAT. THE. FUCK.

I NEVER EVER thought I'd be saying this, but congrats on the strap win, Jeff. I wouldntve ever have guessed that theyd put it on him after fucking up twice. Good for him. Looks like the WWF is finally starting to listen to the fans and the dirt sheets thatve been saying hes over due for a title reign.

Congrats Jeff! And thanks for keeping it warm for Jericho (hopefully... or better yet, William Regal if santa got my letter)

At 12/14/08 11:20 PM, PantyWipe wrote: Congrats Jeff! And thanks for keeping it warm for Jericho (hopefully... or better yet, William Regal if santa got my letter)

Wrong show?

At 12/14/08 10:49 PM, l0vemetal wrote: OH SHIT

Good job, Jeff! Good job.

Hardy fanboys like you make me sick. Fuck off!
What a dumb move! The company knew that Jeff had history with drugs, they knew that he was a moron who would never learn his lesson, yet they still put the WWE title on his waist. When (not if) Jeff fucks up the drug test, the company will lose all the credibility and wrestling will never recover from that.
What a way to screw WWE up, Vince! GREAT JOB!!! >:O

At 12/14/08 11:48 PM, Dream-of-Duke wrote: Hardy fanboys like you make me sick. Fuck off!
What a dumb move! The company knew that Jeff had history with drugs, they knew that he was a moron who would never learn his lesson, yet they still put the WWE title on his waist. When (not if) Jeff fucks up the drug test, the company will lose all the credibility and wrestling will never recover from that.
What a way to screw WWE up, Vince! GREAT JOB!!! >:O

Erm, you're more than welcome to PM me your hate, but at least try to keep it off the thread, ehh?

I was actually expecting (and wanting) Edge to retain tonight. My overzealous comment was probably due to the shock and awe of the moment: SD has been metaphorically "rubbing the clit and walking away" for a while now, and it was just fine to see Jeff get a title. I have an opinion - big deal. It's called sports entertainment for a reason. Maybe WWE just went ahead and gave Jeff a test run to see how he handles being in the limelight. It's about money, and Hardy is SD's version of Cena; regardless of the majority of their age category, he's got fans and he sells.

Nobody forces you to watch wrestling - if you hate the company and its owner that much, then why watch it or devote any of your time you can never get back to complaining about it?

At 12/14/08 07:04 PM, Dream-of-Duke wrote: MM have been the best duo in the company. Putting the titles on their shoulders will bring more creditibility to the tag team titles. Good move.

Agreed, plus Punk is now officially going after Regal and the IC belt, so if they're focusing on rehabbing the IC belt does Punk really need another title he can ignore? Least Miz and Morrison are pushed and that could indeed mean something of a residual push for the tag belts.

As far as Hardy...yeah, I don't really like it, I hate that they put the belt back on Edge just to rip it off a couple weeks later, but I have to think the Hardy win won't really be a long one because let's face it, you just can't trust Hardy. I think I have him drop it at the Rumble or NWO, I don't let him have it till Mania out of just utter fucking fear.

At 12/15/08 12:30 AM, aviewaskewed wrote: As far as Hardy...yeah, I don't really like it, I hate that they put the belt back on Edge just to rip it off a couple weeks later, but I have to think the Hardy win won't really be a long one because let's face it, you just can't trust Hardy. I think I have him drop it at the Rumble or NWO, I don't let him have it till Mania out of just utter fucking fear.

Knowing how much Vince is obssessed with big guys with muscles. I think that the company will put the WWE title on Kozlov at the RR or NWO despite the fact that Kozlov is still too green for a major title run.
But I would rather seeing Kozlov as the champion than Jeff fucking up again and ruining the WWE.

I don't think I can be happy for Jeff winning the title.
For a start, I thought the idea of putting the title on a heel was to build a chase storyline around it, so that it's even more amazing when the face finally wins? Jeff's already been chasing the title for months, so why give it to Edge just to feed him to Jeff and HHH? Did they really want to protect Trips that much?
And Edge deserves the title alot more than Hardy. If history has shown us anything, it's that Jeff Hardy will fuck up again. I can only assume he will, and I hope for the WWE's sake that he's not the champion when that happens.
The fact that Hardy is a massive draw is irrelevant, because hardy getting his 3rd strike would be a massive PR nightmare, that not even 3 Cena's could save them from.

I find your reactions to hardy getting the title ridicules.
If he fucks up, you can say "i told you so"
Until then, grow up and get the fuck over it.
Hardy winning the title is awesome.

At 12/15/08 08:54 AM, Shaun wrote: I find your reactions to hardy getting the title ridicules.
If he fucks up, you can say "i told you so"
Until then, grow up and get the fuck over it.
Hardy winning the title is awesome.

So, the fact that he fucked up in the WWE, then left and went to TNA, then fucked up in TNA, and then left and came back to the WWE and fucked up TWICE MORE means he deserves the title?
I don't care whether he gets fired or not, I can say I told you so if he does, but someone who has been given that many chances and gave a big fuck you to everybody who ever pushed for him doesn't deserve it.

At 12/15/08 01:19 PM, HeartbreakHoldout wrote: So, the fact that he fucked up in the WWE, then left and went to TNA, then fucked up in TNA, and then left and came back to the WWE and fucked up TWICE MORE means he deserves the title?
I don't care whether he gets fired or not, I can say I told you so if he does, but someone who has been given that many chances and gave a big fuck you to everybody who ever pushed for him doesn't deserve it.

I totally agree with you. As I stated previously, Jeff is a fuck-up and he should not be trusted. It is hard to have any decent conversation with teenager Hardy fanboys, so just leave them alone. It is a waste of time arguing with them.

Congrats to Hardy on his title win. I don't think it will be a long run, but being a long time Hardy boys fan, I have to admit that I enjoy the momnent. Do I think he deserves it? Not as cut and dry for me. In terms of in ring performance, yes I think he is a champion. His out of the ring behavior? No. I personally would have put this title change off until at least summer slam to see how long Jeff could go without any incidents.

Still, both Hardys with world title gold is an awesome thing to me.

I'm totoally looking forward to CM Punk and Regals fued. I think they can have some kickass matches together.

Was anyone really suprised Jericho lost? nahhh..

However I am suprised thay had Orton lose. He really should have gone over Batista last night. Orton is a future major heel and a win over Batista would have helped him be in the main event picture. I think WWE will do Orton/Cena again so that they can space out Cena/Batista.

At 12/15/08 01:00 AM, Dream-of-Duke wrote: Knowing how much Vince is obssessed with big guys with muscles. I think that the company will put the WWE title on Kozlov at the RR or NWO despite the fact that Kozlov is still too green for a major title run.

Can't see it, he's feuding with the ECW champion right now and I have to believe that is completely a reaction to the horrible SS match with H. If you have a bad match with H (who is still one of the top 10 best workers in the business) then you are really, really, some kind of fucking shit. So I imagine he's in the issue with Matt hopefully to help him get a little more "on the job training". Have to think we're going to continue the Edge, Hardy, H 3-way feud for the foreseeable future, probably more trading the belt around. I think in a lot of ways they put the belt on Jeff to pay off what the customers want, but he won't keep it long and go back to chasing it. Honestly, it's on him too because the Armageddon initial buyrate will be shit, with the holiday, the lack of build, this show screamed "missable" but once the Hardy fans hear about his win, they'll theoretically buy the replay not wanting to wait to see their boy win the belt.

It's going to be interesting to see how this tag title rematch goes and I think this is a template WWE might be able to use more of so they can switch belts at house shows and help attendance.

I could see how Hardy would be good for business, and there probably won't be much harm in the short term, and he is undeniably a good wrestler. A short reign for Hardy would probably be most damaging for the title itself, but if it puts interest on Smackdown, and Hardy can prove himself at that level, then whatever.
Maybe he'll be one of the big turnaround success stories. I do hope so.

At 12/15/08 09:52 PM, HeartbreakHoldout wrote: I could see how Hardy would be good for business, and there probably won't be much harm in the short term, and he is undeniably a good wrestler. A short reign for Hardy would probably be most damaging for the title itself, but if it puts interest on Smackdown, and Hardy can prove himself at that level, then whatever.
Maybe he'll be one of the big turnaround success stories. I do hope so.

No, you can't damage the big belts really because they are always booked as being inherently important. Even long, shitty reigns (JBL) don't hurt the belt, it just hurts the champ and the viewer. There's no real harm to the belt if it gets quick traded every once in awhile, especially I think in multi-man matches so long as it isn't done too often. I just kind of felt like there's a "wtf was the point?" in putting it on Edge in the first place if it was just gonna be popped off in a couple weeks. It hurts the claim by Edge of being a 6 time champion if anything.

Raw was pretty good last night. Kane was really on the creepy side but thats what he's best at. I enjoyed the Tag Title match and the performance of all involved. Jericho was also cool in his defiance and arrogance. He really is a great heel.

I won't be able to see ECW tonight so I'll have to check out the results tomorrow.

At 12/16/08 06:12 PM, Outlaw88 wrote: Raw was pretty good last night. Kane was really on the creepy side but thats what he's best at. I enjoyed the Tag Title match and the performance of all involved. Jericho was also cool in his defiance and arrogance. He really is a great heel.

RAW was indeed a good show I think. The Kane stuff I wasn't so much a fan of because it's that logic defying crap of "uh, they're somewhere in the building, there's a camera, shouldn't somebody at least ATTEMPT to stop Kane?". I did like that she apparently told him it was Miz. Since it serves two points:

1. Why would Kelly tell him who her real boyfriend is because she should know that Kane would just go hurt the guy?

2. Miz treated her like crap in the past when he had her contract back on ECW, and screwed up her relationship with Balls Mahoney for a while. So why not use this situation to get a bit of payback?

Jericho was also good as it's way better for him to just dismiss Duggan then to actually wrestle him and destroy him.

The tag title match was fantastic and the crowd was really into it. WWE really should rethink their lack of emphasis on tag wrestling. I'm not saying they should headline PPV or something like that, but they can absolutely be something that if you give it time and some attention, can and will be a solid addition to the shows. I also think this was a wonderfully done idea WWE should go back to in terms of flipping titles on house shows. Not the big belt, because you don't want to switch that unless you're going to get some kind of big return (and I don't give a shit how good the crowd of a house show is, it will never justify flipping a heavyweight title on them), but something mid-level like the tag titles that aren't treated as very important? Yeah, you can and should shuffle those around on house shows every now and again I think because that will probably help attendance as people feel they could see a mid-level title swap and it won't simply be erased the next day.

I won't be able to see ECW tonight so I'll have to check out the results tomorrow.

I didn't even remember that whole contract thing with Kelly and Miz... Thats a good call to bring back that history.

I just read the results for ECW and saw a few videos... Is it me or is the image of Mark Henry as Santa and Atlas with antlers hilarious?

I am glad they had Chavo go after the title, and I hope they have some sort of fued between him and Matt as they can have some great matches.

At 12/17/08 12:45 PM, Outlaw88 wrote: I didn't even remember that whole contract thing with Kelly and Miz... Thats a good call to bring back that history.

Kane for me, is very boring and stale despite his ok-ish ring skill. I, for one, do not see him feuding with Punk.

Its hard to imagine Nip Nips more conservative at a creative meeting than Vince regarding strapping a druggie, but according to Rajah...

source: Wrestling
Observer Newsletter

The decision to give Jeff Hardy the WWE Championship belt took place during a creative team meeting two weeks before the pay-per-view match at Armageddon. Vince McMahon first brought up the idea, which caught most of the creative team by surprise.

Ever since Rob Van Dam's
drug possession arrest in July 2006 (who held two major title belts at the time) and all the drug related suspensions of September 2007, McMahon said they could never put a major title on someone who was at a high risk of being suspended because all of the creative team's major storyline plans would have to be overhauled not to mention that it would set a bad example.

At the creative team meeting two weeks ago, Stephanie McMahon was the only one to challenge Vince's idea of giving Jeff Hardy the WWE Championship, bringing up his own doctrine of a wrestler at a high risk of getting suspended receiving a major belt setting a bad example to the talent. Vince acknowledged the doctrine, but said in the short-term, his plan could work if Jeff handled the opportunity properly.

With WWE's rule of publicly releasing names of talent who fail drug tests putting enough pressure on them as it is, strapping the title on Hardy isn't going to make people say that they can fail a test with no punishment.

If somehow there is a relapse on Hardy's part before his title run comes to an end, McMahon made it clear he's immediately dropping the title as a failed drug test would of course
mean the termination of their world champion because it's would be Jeff's third strike. McMahon said Hardy getting fired while champion would send the ultimate message to the locker room.