At 12/1/06 11:43 PM, Luis wrote: yeah this thread is in danger of being locked btw.

its been suggested a few times now... this thread has gone downhill majorly.

i tryed getting a few deacent topics going in the start, but stopped posting after i had to come back to 3 pages of spam all the time.

aaannnnyway. what constitutes being bitchy about your submissions score and/or publicity and being fair? like...i submited my newest submission, it got 3.7, little lower then first expected, but i can live with that. past trends gave me a 95% chance of getting some sort of award for the day. BUT. i found out after i submited, that it was fucking thanks giving in america, so i got my ass kicked by a bunch of holiday submisions, a holiday that i dont even celebrate.

do i have reasont o be mad, or will it come off as being bitchy?

At 12/2/06 01:49 AM, 23450 wrote:

At 12/1/06 11:43 PM, Luis wrote: yeah this thread is in danger of being locked btw.

its been suggested a few times now... this thread has gone downhill majorly.

i tryed getting a few deacent topics going in the start, but stopped posting after i had to come back to 3 pages of spam all the time.

Ah, it's been so long...

What you said above is the main reason I don't really post here anymore. It just moves too fast, and I just don't have the time anymore :(

I don't know if it's spam or too much conversation, but I just wish there was a way to keep it nice and clean like the programming forum regs lounge. I have no trouble keeping up with that, and I really don't even get there that often anymore either.

If you're entering this then don't dare drop out at the end and get a free pressy. I'll cut my fist off and do you in myself.

Nah I think this could be pretty cool. Whoever gets me then thankyou. I always save stuff even if it's worthless, "It's sentimental value is through the roof!" Well, hopefully. For example I had a bit of string tied around my arm for a few years until my dog bit it off. This was an ode to my best friend who did it when he was younger, and I didn't take it off till I saw him again :).

Last secret Santa I gave my friend one of those little plastic triangle things you get in Pizza boxes.

I just remembered about that super duper game thing where everyone gets a part in it, is that still gonna happen or are we just gonna move on?

At 12/2/06 01:27 AM, Rammer wrote:

At 12/2/06 01:26 AM, Rammer wrote: (in the attached picture)

that is what happens when i get 3 hours of sleep.

here's the picture.

Actually, that is kind of funny. Did you click through and see what the deal was? Flash player 7? Christ... for sale? That one confuses me.

Lulu, have you elaborated on the gift thingy with regards to UK / Europe regs? I don't feel like trawling through seventy pages of console wars, lame jokes and jabs at the colour blind.

At 12/2/06 07:37 AM, Paranoia wrote: lame jokes

Two fish in a tank. The first fish says to the second:

"So how do we drive this thing?"

Bu-dum-tshhh

Tom~

At 12/2/06 08:58 AM, The-Super-Flash-Bros wrote:

At 12/2/06 07:37 AM, Paranoia wrote: lame jokes

Two fish in a tank. The first fish says to the second:

"So how do we drive this thing?"

Tom~

Hehe :P It's a bad idea to keep a tangent like this going for more than a few pages, though. Otherwise Lulu might get angry and PM liljim.

Paranoia:
Please PM me next time, and the answer is anyone in any part of the world can be part of it..more likely than not people in the UK or whatever will get people on some other part of the world in an attempt to not end up having to get something to someone that lives across the street from you.

-L

*********************
EVERYONE:
If you are directing your inquiry towards just one person please do not use this thread for it. Theres a wonderful thing by liljim called Private Messaging, it can do lots of cool things like send messages to particular users, it has a huge inbox and everything. Try it!
I will be heavily deleting posts that violate that so please be warned.
Knock-knock jokes and one liners are also going to be deleted.
See this thread as a podium where you can have the feedback of a big concentration of flash people and take advantage of it. The original reg lounge was locked because it turned into nothing but spam.

At 12/2/06 09:48 AM, Luis wrote: Paranoia:
Please PM me next time, and the answer is anyone in any part of the world can be part of it..more likely than not people in the UK or whatever will get people on some other part of the world in an attempt to not end up having to get something to someone that lives across the street from you.

It's not like it was a question that only affected me :S I'd rather not have to forward your reply to each non-US reg individually.

In other news, has anyone else seen all the negative feedback for the footy game on the front page? It's shocking. Factual errors are annoying, yeah, but when you have a well-coded game like that a score of 3.6 odd is just bull.

At 12/2/06 02:46 AM, ShirtTurtle wrote: this may just be an australian thing, but i remember the round pizza stands when i was young.

they are round down here aswell. o_o

Anyway 23450, yeah, it's annoying when you spend hard work on a flash, and there's nothing above a 3.5 on the flash portal, so you get all "^_^! award for me! *submit*". Then after you just clicked submit, some asshole submits two movies the same day, and you notice that three of the movies from last night carried on, and all have a score of 4.00+! And you end up getting SIXTH place.

True story. If you ask me, you have a right to be a lil mad. >:C

At 12/2/06 11:35 AM, Blaze wrote: it's annoying when you spend hard work on a flash, and there's nothing above a 3.5 on the flash portal, so you get all "^_^! award for me! *submit*". Then after you just clicked submit, some asshole submits two movies the same day, and you notice that three of the movies from last night carried on, and all have a score of 4.00+! And you end up getting SIXTH place.

i'm just thankfull that my movies usually get into the blue :) blue movie on portal is more likly to be watched than green, and definatly gray :)

if you dont get an award, it just makes you wanan work hardr on the next swf you do :D!

yet again the only award i've gotten without a collab was done in 11 days and wasn't entended to be that successfull.. ah well... the protal works in mysterious ways.

At 12/2/06 07:35 AM, CitricSquid wrote: Google ads are funny things.

I absolutely love google ads, I once changed a page of my site to all random gibberish in words and slammed a google ad onto it (now this is back when I cared about my site) and it said "Buy lksajdn on eBay!"

loller

And anyone know a good hosting/domain service that I can buy (yes I can use money now, go me) and gives me good (and reliable) hosting along with a .net domain?

the .com I want is taken

At 12/2/06 11:53 AM, iTrunks wrote: And anyone know a good hosting/domain service that I can buy (yes I can use money now, go me) and gives me good (and reliable) hosting along with a .net domain?

the .com I want is taken

I've just gotten a new hosting package, and after lots of research picked these guys:

http://dot5hosting.com/

For $5 a month, you get a really good package, their control panel is great and they're hardly ever down. Go check them out

Tom~

At 12/2/06 12:24 PM, The-Super-Flash-Bros wrote: For $5 a month, you get a really good package, their control panel is great and they're hardly ever down. Go check them out

Thanks, will do ^_^

Now I'll finally have a site that doesn't end in either .tk, .co.nr, or .iscool.net
lol

that is, if I figure out how to pay without my dad causing TOO many problems... :D

So, I was just working on a flash, lacking inspiration... what do all of you guys do to refresh the 'fire' for making the flash? I often find myself at loss for motivation...

At 12/2/06 12:39 PM, iTrunks wrote: So, I was just working on a flash, lacking inspiration... what do all of you guys do to refresh the 'fire' for making the flash? I often find myself at loss for motivation...

i clsoe Ie and stop people tlakign to me on msn and get to 'work'.. alhtough i do hav eabout 34 incomplete fla's so you cna tell how lazy i am <a lso i've done one compelted swf this year.>

get rid of distractions andjust try to work, fi you just dont fel like working, dont :)

At 12/2/06 12:39 PM, iTrunks wrote:
So, I was just working on a flash, lacking inspiration... what do all of you guys do to refresh the 'fire' for making the flash? I often find myself at loss for motivation...

I find that if you havnt got the motivation, try doing something else for a while that you enjoy. Then you will think cool, im bored of this im gonna go do some flash. For example ive been doing portraits of people recently, and its really good cause you get comments on it from your friends and you dont have to spend hours and hours to get those comments.
Motivation ++

At 12/2/06 11:47 AM, Lord-Sonx wrote:

At 12/2/06 11:35 AM, Blaze wrote: it's annoying when you spend hard work on a flash, and there's nothing above a 3.5 on the flash portal, so you get all "^_^! award for me! *submit*". Then after you just clicked submit, some asshole submits two movies the same day, and you notice that three of the movies

Yea with my triforce game the best flash I've ever done(lol...) it was in the blue and I worked very hard on it and there aren't any errors and no award so it kinda got over looked. But did get into the zelda collection, I don't know if its necassarily bad to be angry that you don't get an award, its like a sign of appreciation for your flash and gets waaay more people to view it. And I don't watch or play any flash below blue level any more cause you never know if it is something really crappy or maybe just slightly misunderstood, I don't take my chances with those. And why would this thread be locked? I understand lots of spam but does the spam over ride the relevant posts? I only post here pretty much cause its the regs here, not some random nOObs jumping around the place. So its like a place for our discussions, until toast comes and spams up the thread!

lol

At 12/2/06 10:01 AM, Paranoia wrote: In other news, has anyone else seen all the negative feedback for the footy game on the front page? It's shocking. Factual errors are annoying, yeah, but when you have a well-coded game like that a score of 3.6 odd is just bull.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

I trust Newgrounds scores about as much as I trust a hotdog from a cart in NYC.

They are not reliable and you simply can't go by them.

At 12/2/06 01:23 PM, DFox wrote: I've said it before and I'll say it again.

I trust Newgrounds scores about as much as I trust a hotdog from a cart in NYC.

Heh, it's the main problem with a Democracy. Your average person sucks.

At 12/2/06 01:25 PM, Paranoia wrote: Heh, it's the main problem with a Democracy. Your average person sucks.

Well, what you just said there highlights all the main problems with the voting system.

It is NOT a democracy. In a democracy, everyone's vote is worth the exact same amount, and even more crucial, each person CAN ONLY VOTE ONCE.

If the Newgrounds voting system was a real democracy, it would make it MUCH more accurate and fair. Each person should be able to vote on each Flash ONCE, and their vote should count as ONE.

At 12/2/06 01:48 PM, CitricSquid wrote:

At 12/2/06 01:34 PM, GregThorne wrote: you're right however I also believe that each person should be allowed one vote per movie kind of like IMDB and they should be able to change that one vote whenever they want.

But that would lead to such problems, as a crew vote 5 for there movie, it passes with 16, then they all change it to 1, star sydicate would do that, instant underdog.

I think GregThorne has a very interesting idea. You wouldn't be able to shift it that much because the voting realism scale would be so much higher. Most people who come to Newgrounds to look at Flash do NOT have accounts. By these people's vote counting the same amount as let's say my vote, you have such a more reliable voting scale because you basically have a lot more votes, so shifting the results would be a LOT harder.

The only negative to this is Newgrounds would loose money. Other than that, it would make voting fairer.

Just a quick example. Should my vote be worth more than 7 times more than Luis's vote? Do I know 7 times more about what makes a good Flash than Luis? Nope. It's the same with everyone. Everyone has a an opinion.

At 12/2/06 02:04 PM, DFox wrote: Just a quick example. Should my vote be worth more than 7 times more than Luis's vote? Do I know 7 times more about what makes a good Flash than Luis? Nope. It's the same with everyone. Everyone has a an opinion.

Actually, yes. Yes you should have more say.
In theory our friend Luis doesn't look at Flash animations on the Portal. His account certainly doesn't reflect he does. Yours on the other hand suggests that you have reviewed and criticised Flash animations on Newgrounds at least one thousand two hundred times - certainly six hundred and twenty three days of portal usage.

You've also got through over twelve THOUSAND things on the Under Judgement section. How are you NOT more qualified than someone who, for all we know, DOESN'T blam or protect or adjust the votes in any way?

You are, in short, an expert. Why should your vote be worth the same as someone with no knowledge of Newgrounds? Why should your study and knowledge and subtle understanding of the way the Portal works be neutered in the sake of "equality" and "fairness"? Is it fair that someone who devotes thier time and energy to something isn't rewarded for thier work, even if that reward is only a slightly bigger share of the say?

Not picking on Lulu of course. His choice to be Level 1 permenantly is his own (and it's always funny to watch the occasional newbie with no knowledge of Luis' modship shout "stfu lvl1n00b" when he offers advice/crit).

But "One man, one vote" only works fine in theory. In practice you realise that experts are forced to vote on the same level as completely naive people. I'm sure people will want to draw interesting parallels to the way thr US election system works as well...

At 12/2/06 02:29 PM, KaynSlamdyke wrote: But "One man, one vote" only works fine in theory. In practice you realise that experts are forced to vote on the same level as completely naive people. I'm sure people will want to draw interesting parallels to the way thr US election system works as well...

I would agree with everything you said except when I vote on a Flash it has nothing to do with Newgrounds... It has to do with how good I think a Flash is. You can't possibly say that I know what makes a good Flash and people with a lower voting power know less than me about what's good and what's not. The whole point of a voting system is you get votes from different types of people. If they wanted to go by who knows Newgrounds better, then just get some portal moderators and have them give each Flash a rating when it's submitted, and wallah, there you go, now it's score is based upon the opinion of someone who knows Newgrounds. But it shouldn't be like that. Everyone has an opinion, and it's their opinion of the Flash, and how valid their opinion is shouldn't be based on if they hang out in the portal a lot.

When I got all my blam and protect points I had a lot of time on my hands. Now I don't. If I made my account two weeks ago, I would never reach the blam/protects I have now. They are based on how much time you have, not how good of a rater you are, and I'm the first person to admit that.

About the U.S. election thing, right, each person gets one vote. But when George Bush was elected for both terms, low numbers of younger people came out to vote. So what if we said that older people's vote should count for more because they've been alive longer and know more about the country than us? That obviously isn't true because the older generation are the people responsible for putting George Bush in office twice and it's become clear that it was a bad decision, and they even admit that being where his approval rating currently is.

At 12/1/06 05:52 PM, Rammer wrote:

At 12/1/06 05:37 PM, Lord-Sonx wrote:

you the one who was outside my house last night singing love songs to me :O?

again, that was me. SNARE was on drums, so i could keep my rhythm. thanks, SNARE! me and Sonx had a great night of playing checkers and discussing economics over hot coffee that night

But I was still singing

At 12/2/06 02:04 PM, DFox wrote: con
At 12/2/06 02:29 PM, KaynSlamdyke wrote: pro
At 12/2/06 02:38 PM, DFox wrote: rebuddle

The truth is there is no perfect system. No matter how things are done, no matter how things are run, there will be someone who doesn't like it. There will be some room for an argument against its fairness or overall infrastructure. There is no way to win everyone, but Newgrounds has won over 1,000,000 users with their site, which includes their system.

As far as I am concerned, sure there are other ways to run the portal, but they aren't necessary so why change it? Don't fix what isn't broken.

At 12/2/06 02:49 PM, DingoEatingFuzz wrote: As far as I am concerned, sure there are other ways to run the portal, but they aren't necessary so why change it? Don't fix what isn't broken.

In my opinion, until the best Flashes always get the best rating, it's broken. What I'm saying is there's always room for improvement.

Why redesign Newgrounds? The current layout works fine... Because progress is good.

At 12/2/06 02:38 PM, DFox wrote: But it shouldn't be like that. Everyone has an opinion, and it's their opinion of the Flash, and how valid their opinion is shouldn't be based on if they hang out in the portal a lot.

When you first started using the portal, did you have an opinion of it? Of course you did. Everyone has an initial opinion about everything they see. Otherwise your brain wouldn't be parallel processing properly.

However, now that you've been here a few years, wouldn't you say your initial opinion has now changed to something a bit more informed? Surely you have some idea in your head about what the Newgrounds Portal *is* to you, and how you've seen things before. Like you know what a Flash by Piconjo is going to look like, and that you know to be lenient on August 15th every year. And on a side note, why do you continue to monitor the portal the way you have done if you had no tangible reward?

You know better than the average person about Newgrounds. You're a respected member of it's community and you have an amazing knowledge of some areas of the site. You KNOW what your personal "standard" is because your opinion has been tempered by eight thousand removals of bad Flash and four thousand preservations of good Flashes. What's also more important is you have evidently monitored NG over a period of time by your EXP score. You're not just an oldbie. You're an EXPERIENCED oldbie.

Is your current opinion on Newgrounds more valuable to the community and to the Flash judgement process as a whole than the opinion when you were a little newbie who had just created his first account? Because if it's not, then the scaled voting system means nothing.

But then again, your opinions on what makes a good Flash animation wouldn't be either.

About the U.S. election thing, right, each person gets one vote. But when George Bush was elected for both terms, low numbers of younger people came out to vote. So what if we said that older people's vote should count for more because they've been alive longer and know more about the country than us?

I was more concerned with the fact that political scientists and people who watch the news and have an informed view of poltics get the same vote as someone in the backwoods who's been paid $500 to tick the column he's been told to.

It's about being informed. If we don't pay attention to the system and what affects it, then we _shouldn't_ have a say in how it runs. Experts should have a louder voice than novices in every field. Otherwise no one would have an incentive to learn, and the system would be worked around and bypassed by even more obvious routes of corruption

At 12/2/06 02:55 PM, DFox wrote: In my opinion, until the best Flashes always get the best rating, it's broken. What I'm saying is there's always room for improvement.

P(Best flash wins)=0.9

You can't change that, it's a natural occuring probability based on the fact that people make choices. The only way to elliminate the chance of the best flash not getting best place is to remove the aspect of people voting and base the scores on mathmatical equations, but that would be silly.

How do you propose we "fix" the portal?

At 12/2/06 03:16 PM, KaynSlamdyke wrote: You know better than the average person about Newgrounds. You're a respected member of it's community and you have an amazing knowledge of some areas of the site. You KNOW what your personal "standard" is because your opinion has been tempered by eight thousand removals of bad Flash and four thousand preservations of good Flashes. What's also more important is you have evidently monitored NG over a period of time by your EXP score. You're not just an oldbie. You're an EXPERIENCED oldbie.

Thanks :)

I see exactly where you're coming from, but I just don't think the current system is as fair as it could be. You can debate the equal voting power thing. But, I don't see how anyone can debate the multiple vote thing. It makes no sense. Why should you be able to vote every day on a Flash? All that simply is is who has the most time to go back and re-vote. From a business standpoint? Yes, good idea. From a quality of the portal standpoint? Terrible idea. If you actually think about it, it makes little to no sense why that ability to vote multiple times would be implemented.

At 12/2/06 03:23 PM, Cybex wrote: How do you propose we "fix" the portal?

Read everything I said above, but to kick it off right, get rid of the option that allows people to vote everyday. It's useless, allows downvoting/upvoting, and is completely unnecessary.