Alright I’ll be more careful

I know the Moderation Team would quit over this (or would at least need extra vomit buckets) but can you imagine if being crap 'was' flagworthy... :3

*cough-cough* Fortunately we can all agree that taste is subjective. ;)

To the best of my knowledge, age rating your content "too high" is absolutely allowed and will not be corrected by Moderators. I had that discussion once, but it was about a decade ago. In a nutshell, it is okay for artist to want their work only to be seen by an audience they deem to be "mature enough" for their work. It can also make sense in other cases - such as a case of an ongoing comic that has a lot of NSFW content with a few pages that could be rated "E".

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@Quest

As always: Thank you so much for all the hard work you put into this!

It really makes it apparent how much of a problem the use of AI generated audio (I refuse to call that "music") has become for the Audio Portal.

In that vein I'd like your opinion on something related to said problem:

I know that this sounds mega-mean, but maybe users should be asked to deposit a token amount of money before they are allowed to upload anything - in order to keep this and other spam in check... A "put your money where your mouth is" kind of approach. If somebody has aspirations of becoming an actual artist, paying (say) 11 US dollars one time doesn't seem too much of a deal. It would also reduce the number of kids who create several accounts in a row in order to get stolen or AI-generated tracks into a certain game.

Kids could still ask their parents to do the transaction for them. That way the parents would act as another level of quality control. If their child is up to no good, then mommy and daddy will start asking questions that can one way or another only end in "No, we will not give money to a website that you get instantly kicked from anyway...!"

(A "no refunds" policy would be needed there, though... Misbehaving kids might have misbehaving parents.)

And if somebody is too rich for their own good, at least Mr. Fulp can use the money to treat the Moderation Team to some Mexican food. ;)

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To the best of my knowledge users don't get any points for mooching off of threads such as this one. The mods can read, too, you know... ;p

You can still put in your own efforts, though.

how the hell can you just tell a song is being generated by Ai

There's a bunch of ways to tell, most of it is just knowing by practice though. Give a listen to all the Suno tracks I found today. You'll find similarities between them. A lot of them have this strange crustiness at high tones, which kind of sounds like a broken chinese flute. It screeches. The vocals (if they have them) will sound garbled and strange, like a choir not singing correctly. It never sounds like a single person. Drums will often sound like sand. The whole song will often have a chugging rythm to it. The mixing is usually pretty bad. The bitrate (quality) of Suno tracks max out at 192kbps. If it sounds low quality, it might be AI. This can be checked in the file metadata too (and is the key piece of hard evidence I use). Spectrogram analysis can be a confirmation of this 192kbps bitrate if the user has artificially manipulated the meatdata, but that's a bit more complex, and not seen often. Only one user spoofed the metadata today. One last thing, the max length of a Suno generation is 4 minutes. If it's exactly 4 minutes, it might be AI. Many Suno tracks are shorther than this, but almost never longer.

If you find a track you think is AI, feel free to ask about it in this thread. Even if you're unsure, I probably won't be. Other users such as @G2961 are also good at detecting AI by ear, and can even hear some more obscure models such as Soundraw better than me. The ones to look out for are Suno and Udio though. Happy hunting.

Although I think that is worded a bit lazily, I want to give this question an honest shot:

Not to oversimplify the process, but from my understanding a big part of it is a matter of training. If you listened to as well as know a lot about music, it certainly helped.

I, for example, have looked at an unholy number of drawn artworks in the years I've spend on this planet. And although I could not draw a decent hand to safe my own life I also know a bit about the process of art-creation. (Because that process is interesting to me. Art is the best!)

One of the things I know is that an artist who notices a mistake in their sketch would not then go on, doing several different stages of polishing and just polish that mistake as well.

So in summary, I apply experience (the experience of others, in this case) and abstract thinking. But seeing that a user is obviously up to no good, doesn't intend to play fair, or has zero interest in the presentation of "their" uploads certainly makes that stuff easier to spot. ;)

Thanks! I also do not refer to AI generated material as "music" or even "songs" for the most part. I usually call them "tracks".

It's an interesting idea, and other sites have used this (or considered using this) to some success. Extremesystems.org made users pay 1 dollar to post years ago, and it eliminted the bot problem overnight. Twitter (I refuse to call it by its new name) experimented with a similar program last year. Common Sense Media now makes users pay to veiw pages. Honestly, despite the varying degrees of success these sites had, I'm not sure it's a good idea to implement on Newgrounds. It mildly ruins the whole "everything by everyone" idea for me, just as the 2023 Secret Santa did, and the new Takeover Tuesdays still do. Users that cannot pay wouldn't be able to post music. I've heard some genuinely good music from users with no followers and a dream. For every gigabyte of AI slop, there is one inspired track, and think that track is worth saving, even if that user cannot pay. If there were some way to allow users that cannot pay onto the AP, that would be okay, like a form that you can fill out. This also doesn't adress the users that will upload AI tracks even after paying. Although most AI uploaders are not scouted, some are long-established users. One of my first experiences with finding an AI user was one who was scouted. I feel like the scouting system is already an okay way to weed out the AI songs. It's not perfect, as I've seen scouted AI users, and genuinely amazing musicians without a scout, but it's better than nothing.

If server space is the issue, then a cost-anaylsis could be performed to determine the viability of developing new tools to automatically flag songs that might be AI. Bitrate is a good place to start. When I downloaded and analyzed all of the tracks on the audio portal published in one week, I was able to sort the songs by bitrate. About half of the 192kbps songs were Suno, which was a lot lower than I expected. Still though, it's a pattern, and others exist and could be flagged by a machine. If it's cheaper to let the AI songs take server space, then so be it. There's obviously a lot more to this, but I am not an admin or run a buisiness, so take all this with a grain of salt.

As for users creating multiple accounts to upload AI audio and (probably) evade bans, as we saw today, I think there should just be better moderation. I remember hearing from somewhere that most bans are not IP-based (don't quote me on this), but I think they all should be, if it isn't any extra effort. People will always try to get around it with proxies and/or VPN's, but it will prevent the random kid with little technical experience from uploading more Suno tracks.

I don't think so actually. I distinctly remember going from silver to gold just from one of G2961's long lists. Most of my whistle points are my own finds, but I wouldn't be surpised if 10 to 15 percent is from "mooching". The rank up could have been a coincidence though.

Opened GD for the first time in a long while, meant to relax and play a level or two. It's been a fairly stressful day. As I played, I realized something. I was playing a level with a Suno AI song. WHY. Jesus christ.

This user is ilxdanielxli, and they are scouted. They are a GD player. Sigh....

These are the AI tracks:

One of these tracks got frontpaged! 1000 people listened and no one noticed.

All of the tracks are 192kbps or worse, and they all have obviously AI-sounding vocals or artifacts too. Also, AI text spam in the author comments.

The whole, "This music reflects the personal struggle of blah blah blah BLAH BLAH".

Bullshit.

Even the descriptions are AI generated.

It's all AI.

Wowwwwww such an amazing heartfelt message you wrote there! Totally not a machine with no regaurd for emotion or ounce of humanity. I have no respect (beyond human decency) for users such as this one.

Here Is Some Udio AI Songs:

Btw I Was Exploring The Undiscovered Artists Tab And Found These Songs

I Did Not Want To Put Wub Wub Wonderland On The Audio Portal Because Its Just Wubbox. I love Wubbox

I was highly suspicious of a couple of these when I did my last hunt. The titles sure look consistant with AI generated tracks. What's odd is that there's no metadata indicating that it is Udio AI, as it usually lists it as a contributing artist. Also, Udio normally outputs at a full 320kbps bitrate, this is 128kbps. However, I hadn't listened to "Echos of Fury" which clearly has AI vocals. There's also some vocal ghosting artifacts on the chiptune track.

Good catch.

That shouldn't be an excuse to not report it if you think it's AI. Just because the track is from a genre you have an affinity for doesn't mean it gets a pass or is free from suspicion or scrutiny.

Here's the track:

Caught another Ai Song. You literally just tell by listening to the vocals

Yep, Suno AI to be specific. You can hear the crusty high tones later on in the song too, typical of Suno.

Yeah

Flagged This One

This bro uploading AI audio caught my eye by subscribing to me

https://rabsaw.newgrounds.com/

"Oh no. How could you be 'so mean' to your loyal fan...?" ;3

Yes, even if it's Tom Fulp upload AI audio, lol. I'm not going to turn a blind eye to it anyway.

Lil bro also said in one of the descriptions that the audio wasn’t even original lol

It's the same as he shitting in own underpants and saying, "It's not me shit in my underpants."

Lmao

I found another Ai generated song on here since this forum has been dead for about 2 days

Ok, so I found a user who posted like… an uncountable amount of songs on the same day, and I’m not sure but Here’s one of their tracks

It sounds pretty legit to me.

yeah, it’s just it’s kinda hard for me to tell fake from real

Their "latest" post says they don't go here often, so I assume they're just putting more of their songs here again...

Shame that I'm snitching on a fellow GD player, but these are both Shirayuki's cover of Fatal by GEMN, as their descriptions say. I have doubts on this account actually being hers... because of the GD tags.

Her MV is here:

https://youtu.be/-rhdTfrZE1s?si=YfR8lRa8NDfMx8_e

When I have time, I'll cover it myself... and everyone will flock to me. Hahahaha /s

I have a good feeling it’s stolen, proper credits aren’t given, it sounds low quality which I hint it may be a recording or file, and the name isn’t Russian, so I have a feeling this was uploaded just cause or some shi

Ai used

They stole a song that is already on NG and can probably be used in GD???? What motive did they have to do that?

Just because something has a low score doesn't mean it breaks the audio guidelines. Although these songs certainly aren't good, they aren't stolen, AI, or offensive. An argument could maybe be made that it's spam, but other than that, there isn't a reason why they can't stay on the AP, at least from what I can hear. Try looking for songs made with AI instead of low scores if you want to help.