More Forum Updates & Throwback

[TomFulp]

This week we introduced the Voice Acting forum and the initial response has been awesome!

One thing we did notice however was that a lot of outside VAs were considering migrating over to NG, only to be put off by some bad attitudes present in the forum. This has been a long-term problem with NG and a lot of it stems from my sympathy towards angsty personality types because deep down I'm a pretty angsty person. HOWEVER, when I look back at my own forum history, going all the way back to being a 12 year old on Prodigy dial-up, I've been 99% nice and respectful to people. Just because you're angry inside doesn't mean you have a right to take it out on your fellow community members. We've added a sticky post intro to the VA forum to emphasized that bad attitudes aren't allowed. You can give constructive criticism without being mean and negative. When conversing with someone on a forum, pretend you are looking them in the eyes and talking face to face - THAT is how you should treat your fellow NGers. The fact that they are here and not Facebook / Twitter / outside means you already have something big in common.

The Flash Forum is now the Game Development Forum, where you can talk about ALL aspects of game development. Talk about Flash, Unity3D, HTML5. Talk about HaXe. Talk about level and boss design. Make a thread dedicated to the game you're working on and show people your progress while discussing what tools you are using and what some of the challenges have been. I've been wanting this forum for a long time now but was nervous to mess with the Flash forum too soon. The time has finally come!

The Mobile and Games Factory 2 forums are now locked and hidden for all users who haven't manually arranged their forums. If you still see them and want to hide them, click the gear in the top right of the forums to hide / unhide and re-arrange forums on your list. Discussion intended for those forums can now take place in the Game Development Forum.

We've updated the individual hubs to now have links to their respective forums. Look for those links down the left side of each page, under the "Random" link. The Games hub links to the Game Development Forum, the Movies hub links to the Animation Forum, the Audio hub has links for both the Audio Forum and Voice Acting Forum while the Art hub links to the Art Forum.

There were other forum updates in recent months. You can now edit your post if you click the red pencil icon within 15 minutes of posting. You can now follow a thread by clicking the heart icon in the thread header. This will make all new posts show up in your feed. A lot of people still don't know that you can tag usernames with an @, for example @liljim and your post will appear in their feed. It's a great way to bring people into a conversation.

Today is Throwback Thursday so I made a Throwback post in the General Forum with a big list of games and movies from this week in NG history. Please scan the list and share memories of your favorites!

ZJ interviewed me so give that a listen!

Read this CNET article about the 10 year anniversary of Numa Numa if you haven't. They actually embedded the NG version in their article, too! Yay!

Also let me know what you think of all these forum updates.

[TomFulp]

At 12/18/14 09:54 AM, Amaranthus wrote: What about all forums suddenly being yellow?

This was a step towards simplification in future layouts so things are more consistent. New activity is yellow, non-activity is grey, less variation to confuse people who don't know what's up.

[Rucklo]

Yay!

[Gianni]

You'll never stop me from telling everyone what a bad actor SirUndead is. It's odd that you mention this because I felt like the majority response to people was positive, maybe I just completely overlooked the negative. I thought all of the folks were getting either positive personal feedback or no feedback at all. Mostly no feedback at all so far.

The only real possibly negative experience people might be having is having their intro thread locked on sight hah, which the mods are presently figuring out. I guess I'll have to keep an eye out for people being discouraged and sic @Piper's rainbow-esque positive attitude on them when I see it.

[FinaLee]

At 12/18/14 09:51 AM, TomFulp wrote: Just because you're angry inside doesn't mean you have a right to take it out on your fellow community members.

Totally right. Wish the community was less hostile sometimes so NG can lose the stigma.

[Keisok]

At 12/18/14 09:51 AM, TomFulp wrote:
One thing we did notice however was that a lot of outside VAs were considering migrating over to NG, only to be put off by some bad attitudes present in the forum.

Would it be too much if I ask for evidence on this particular claim? Because there wasn't a lot of activity there to be honest, and they'd probably automatically refuse considering general and the other boards' average qualities.

This has been a long-term problem with NG and a lot of it stems from my sympathy towards angsty personality types because deep down I'm a pretty angsty person. HOWEVER, when I look back at my own forum history, going all the way back to being a 12 year old on Prodigy dial-up, I've been 99% nice and respectful to people. Just because you're angry inside doesn't mean you have a right to take it out on your fellow community members.

That's one hell of a generalization Tom and not the reasoning at all (considering I know who you're alluding to with this section).

We've added a sticky post intro to the VA forum to emphasized that bad attitudes aren't allowed. You can give constructive criticism without being mean and negative. When conversing with someone on a forum, pretend you are looking them in the eyes and talking face to face - THAT is how you should treat your fellow NGers. The fact that they are here and not Facebook / Twitter / outside means you already have something big in common.

Ah, so you basically created the VAA again with these rules of butt-kissing only... and/or DeviantArt/Fanfiction. Basically you want to create an echo chamber for people who can't develop at least any form of callus or thick skin. Also note that you've literally just put a band-aid on a foot being eaten by diabetic gangrene. If you want the boards to not devolve into things you don't like, you will need to completely overhaul this place and commit a Great Purge. At least if you want a squeaky clean and well run machine. Hell, I'd even suggest a way to hide it; just have a site-wide error hit and do this in the dark.

[Intrapath]

At 12/18/14 09:57 AM, TomFulp wrote:

At 12/18/14 09:54 AM, Amaranthus wrote: What about all forums suddenly being yellow?

This was a step towards simplification in future layouts so things are more consistent. New activity is yellow, non-activity is grey, less variation to confuse people who don't know what's up.

Ah, I was just about to ask about this. I loved having everything so colorful, so I'm a little disappointed, but I understand the design reasons that the rainbow-style forums had to go.

[Psychopath]

At 12/18/14 09:51 AM, TomFulp wrote: We've added a sticky post intro to the VA forum to emphasized that bad attitudes aren't allowed. You can give constructive criticism without being mean and negative.

You know you can be malicious and toxic without being openly aggressive, right? Keisok has already made mention of the VAA, a place crammed full of betrayal, lying and cowardice.

One thing we did notice however was that a lot of outside VAs were considering migrating over to NG, only to be put off by some bad attitudes present in the forum.

Citation please. Why do you care so much about voice actors this fickle? If it wasn't this today, it would've been something else tomorrow. It honestly seems like your time would be better spent attracting animators than voice actors.

You can give constructive criticism without being mean and negative.

The thing you're describing has three names: life, internet and Newgrounds.

When conversing with someone on a forum, pretend you are looking them in the eyes and talking face to face - THAT is how you should treat your fellow NGers.

Is the face in question, in any regard, punchable?

The fact that they are here and not Facebook / Twitter / outside means you already have something big in common.

The most it suggests that we have in common is that they want to use the site as a new outlet for gigs. No wait, I just remembered, their only interest seems to be in bragging about how their list of successful gigs is only outmatched by the laundry list of shit they don't wanna do and won't do. I guess we don't have that much in common after all.

[BenTibbetts]

At 12/18/14 09:51 AM, TomFulp wrote: The Flash Forum is now the Game Development Forum, where you can talk about ALL aspects of game development.

I like this change!

[StickmanMarkinson]

Well this is good news, more voices for other people. Awesome.

[Plebs]

There sure is no need for unnecessary bashing on someones efforts. Unless your intention is to genuinely give them pointers on what to improve on. Sometimes I'm guilty of seeing someones work and having nothing but bad thoughst, but nobody is gaining anything from them.

keep them to yourself

At 12/18/14 09:57 AM, TomFulp wrote: This was a step towards simplification in future layouts so things are more consistent. New activity is yellow, non-activity is grey, less variation to confuse people who don't know what's up.

Wow that's dumb!

[MSGhero]

At 12/18/14 09:51 AM, TomFulp wrote: The Flash Forum is now the Game Development Forum, where you can talk about ALL aspects of game development. Talk about Flash, Unity3D, HTML5. Talk about HaXe all day every day.

Might have to remind @Diki that php threads shouldn't be locked and made fun of.

[Cyberdevil]

Should've posted on those Mobile and Games Factory forums when I had the chance! :O Though I guess there's a reason I never did... all in all all great updates!

The 'Developers & Programmers' section suddenly seems very small compared to the 'Artists & Creators', even though they're both very similar in terms of content.. btw, I seem to recall a Network News forum back in the day, was that one maybe merged with the main News forum? Can't remember reading anything about it.

[Diki]

At 12/18/14 12:18 PM, MSGhero wrote: Might have to remind @Diki that php threads shouldn't be locked and made fun of.

You're not my dad! You can't tell me what to do!

[yetanotherjohn]

At 12/18/14 12:32 PM, Cyberdevil wrote: btw, I seem to recall a Network News forum back in the day, was that one maybe merged with the main News forum? Can't remember reading anything about it.

Looks like those topics were merged into general.

http://www.newgrounds.com/bbs/topic/381

One example here. RIP forum 6.

[TomFulp]

At 12/18/14 10:26 AM, Keisok wrote: Would it be too much if I ask for evidence on this particular claim? Because there wasn't a lot of activity there to be honest, and they'd probably automatically refuse considering general and the other boards' average qualities.

This came from personal discussions with a lot of voice actors who were taking the forum under consideration.

This has been a long-term problem with NG and a lot of it stems from my sympathy towards angsty personality types because deep down I'm a pretty angsty person. HOWEVER, when I look back at my own forum history, going all the way back to being a 12 year old on Prodigy dial-up, I've been 99% nice and respectful to people. Just because you're angry inside doesn't mean you have a right to take it out on your fellow community members.

That's one hell of a generalization Tom and not the reasoning at all (considering I know who you're alluding to with this section).

That wasn't meant to target you personally. I did reach out to you about the VA forum but I also had to reach out to other users who were coming off as unnecessarily negative there. Even then there are lots of users not on the VA forum who this applies to.

[TomFulp]

At 12/18/14 12:32 PM, Cyberdevil wrote: The 'Developers & Programmers' section suddenly seems very small compared to the 'Artists & Creators', even though they're both very similar in terms of content.. btw, I seem to recall a Network News forum back in the day, was that one maybe merged with the main News forum? Can't remember reading anything about it.

It's been tempting to put all forums into a single box so you can have 100% control over the order you sort them in, but that is a little messy at the moment with how things are set up.

And Network News... I thought it was just hidden but looks like it's gone completely. Was it merged into General? I don't even remember now... Gotta check on that.

[Keisok]

At 12/18/14 01:18 PM, TomFulp wrote: This came from personal discussions with a lot of voice actors who were taking the forum under consideration.

Sounds similar to hearsay then, and not guarantees or commitments. It's entirely possible that they could've just said that to drive hopes up, or a thing I like to call the "Ouya" effect, where they promise to try and take a look but don't bother too. Do I know any of these actors? Just curious mind you, and the only way to solve a question is to have an answer, even if said answer is a refusal.

That wasn't meant to target you personally. I did reach out to you about the VA forum but I also had to reach out to other users who were coming off as unnecessarily negative there. Even then there are lots of users not on the VA forum who this applies to.

I imagine I know the (likely) other user that this was needed for, at least for the V/A section. I still think that a great purge would be great for the BBS mind you, since it allows you to wipe clean the hive of scum and villainy that puts off newbies and enact a new set of house rules and standards. Shaking up the staff also has a beneficial effect, since that makes them realize they're there to do a job, and they must abide by that job, else they lose their job.

[Piper]

Thank you for the update, and the wise advice!

At 12/18/14 10:13 AM, SirUndead wrote: You'll never stop me from telling everyone what a bad actor SirUndead is.

Who's SirUndead? :P

At 12/18/14 10:15 AM, FinaLee wrote: Totally right. Wish the community was less hostile sometimes so NG can lose the stigma.

Me too. I think most of us here just want to have a fun time connecting, checking out cool content and just being part of a unique community. In the past I was also guilty of feeding this stigma by being verbally abusive towards other users. But I've simmered down. I'm not perfect, but I'm doing my best.

[Magical-Zorse]

At 12/18/14 09:51 AM, TomFulp wrote: a lot of it stems from my sympathy towards angsty personality types

Thanks for thinking about me

[kkots]

Newgrounds had always been the harshest, the most brutal place on the Internet that I knew. And that is why I love Newgrounds. I love difficult challenges, and when people with all seriousness and objectiveness tell me about my flaws in my face and urge me to get better. That bitterness most experienced people are showing is worth suffering through, I think.
On the other hand, not giving critique and just yelling at a person to make him go away.. ah nope, I still love even that.

[Psychopath]

At 12/18/14 02:27 PM, Piper wrote: In the past I was also guilty of feeding this stigma by being verbally abusive towards other users.

Wait, you were a real person once?

But...

But...

The eggshells are everywhere...

[OOGIDIBA]

RIP flash forum :( jk I'm sure the game dev forum will be way more interesting and useful in the end.

[ZJ]

At 12/18/14 09:51 AM, TomFulp wrote:

ZJ interviewed me so give that a listen!

Woot!

[Piper]

At 12/18/14 02:34 PM, kkots wrote: I love difficult challenges, and when people with all seriousness and objectiveness tell me about my flaws in my face and urge me to get better.

I feel the same way! :)

So does Tom!

At 12/18/14 09:51 AM, TomFulp wrote: You can give constructive criticism without being mean and negative.

Now this is just me speaking generally, not to anyone in particular.

Especially in the reviews section. I see a lot of really good feedback for our artists. Taking the time to point out something you feel like didn't quite fit is very constructive for them, and helps them to become better at what they do. I think a line is crossed when users take it a bit farther than healthy criticism, "This is trash." - "A five year old could have done this!" - "Just another wannabe with nothing better to share!" Stuff like this doesn't actually help the artist and it hasn't been tolerated ever really. If a few people flag an abusive comment, it's removed. If Newgrounds was all about being offensive, we wouldn't have that option built into the system. They also wouldn't have any guidelines.

This thread isn't about silencing people. Which I feel like a lot of us might jump to this conclusion, especially when we're worried that someone is trying to shut us down. But actually, it's empowering. There's advice in here. Good advice. If our intention is to truly help our fellow NG users improve as artists or people, we will go about it effectively and in a manner where the user will be receptive of our feedback. However, if our intention is to just make ourselves feel better, or put others down, those actions don't actually aid in making our community get any better or successful.

All of us deserve to have our opinions and voices heard, but within a community like this where the goal is to come together and promote creativity among all our fellow humans, I think an ounce of consideration can go a long way.

[Tony-DarkGrave]

lol "don't be mean" oh please if its shit (opinion or not) it gets called out thats how the real world works. god Im getting sick of this feel good bullshit which isn't doing anyone any good. I miss the old edgy NG....

[Lambtaco]

As someone who's been lurking the VA forum, I concur that a number of members have crossed the line from criticism to being cynical dickweeds. It's discouraged me from posting there, if only a little bit.

While the staff is fixing and rearranging the forums, can we get some rules about naming topics? The really vague titles like, "Don't you hate it when..." can get annoying, because they tell you almost nothing about what they're about. I sometimes visit these topics 3 or 4 times and still can't remember which one it was from the title alone. And it's not just General, though there have been times when half the threads on the first page there have these kinds of titles. I know these sorts of things can discourage new posters, but it would help to improve the perceived intelligence of the forums, at least at a glance.

[MykeiXWolfe]

It's funny how I've never considered leaving NG until today!

[Boss]

i regret most of my past on this website i shouldve been reading books and exercising
i seek the detachment from past through the realization that I am not in the past and that it does not exist any more only the impact of what it was remains in the present moment. the way that the world reflects your attitude back towards you can be very helpful if your perspective allows you to digest it well, and very negative if you cannot gain anything from it. this life is truly a struggle taking out anger on the internet probably kept me from committing horrible crimes in real life as a mid teenager but I wish I had been more mature.

kids dont be like i was, be nice on the forums and dont do drugs and waste your time being angry. exercise and read books and be a friendly sociable person. go against the american grain by not concerning yourself with serial killers and all that crazy shit that many Americans for some reason spend a lot of time interested in. sure its interesting... but maybe not good for you to be learning about that as opposed to good things like biology and stuff. I think maybe the education system is a part of why I had so much angst. But I cant pass the buck only try to keep my past from depressing me

[JKSSN]

Yey! More new forum updates!
Kinda missed the multicolored icon thingy for the Artists & Creators part, but it's fine.